Boston at Buffalo 2/8/12

[Jack Schitt]

Originally Posted by 29th_Candidate

Don't be a defensive moron. I applaud Kaleta's suicidal tendencies, but you aren't thinking rationally if you sincerely believe that Kaleta taking on Lucic is anything short of suicide, homeboy.

That Kaleta got up laughing has no bearing on his suicidal initial decision. Nor does it mean he wasn't secretly reeling in pain. It's more of an indication that Kaleta doesn't want Looch to think that he got the best of him. It could also mean Lucic knocked him senseless.

"...(Y)ou guys are something else." What "guys"? I've got no dog in this race. I don't give a **** about either one of these teams.

What's with all the dramatics and suicide nonsense. The over-the-top implication that Lucic would kill Kaleta is ridiculous.

[mainsail]

Originally Posted by Jack Schitt

You're preaching to the choir. No Sabres fan I know, and the vast majority of fans who post on local sites or call into talk radio are against that concept. The problem is with the management and new owner.

I agree, but I think the problem is made worse by sentiments such as Kaleta "stood up" to Lucic. When a guy has a hold of your jersey after some serious words were exchanged, especially if that guy is Lucic, you would think a survival mechanism would kick in and you would throw the first punch. He didn't "stand up" to anything, he had no choice, Lucic had a hold of him and if, as you say, nothing really landed, then Kaleta went down on his own and the little celebratory dance he did in the penalty box was for...exactly what? My point is the Sabers fans are claiming mere survival as a cause for celebration. Does that say anything about the team?

Originally Posted by Jack Schitt

There's really not all that much "talent" on this team in reality, and certainly not enough to get them out of the first round imo. Fans are pumped up because they stood up.... isn't that what everyone - Sabres fans and hockeyfans in general- were clammoring for after the Lucic/Miller incident?

It's tough to say how good a guy like Pominville could be if he had a teammate who covered his butt. It's really difficult to judge the true talent of this team because they are simply so soft. Even under Bettman, it's still hockey. Lots of teams out there are capable of smelling blood in the water and if you can't stand up to them you can't get the Cup.

Originally Posted by Jack Schitt

Correction ... the team HAD lost it's "heart", and fans were pumped because standing up for themselves kind of symbolized them finding it again. It remains to be seen if that's true, but that's the reasoning.

Jack, you and I simply have differing opinions on what "standing up" means. McCormick stood up and them bailed. Kaleta stood up and then bailed (remember, you guys who saw the slo mo, I didn't, say nothing landed), and Weber...well, we won't even go into that. If I were a Buffalo fan I would be thrilled to have thumped the Stanley Cup champs 6-0. That's a big time win. The fights would leave me completely disheartened.

Originally Posted by Jack Schitt

C'mon. You and I both know the game has changed - and guys like Thornton are at a premium. There just aren't many out there... good fighters who aren't a liability aren't readily available.

I completely agree. Buffalo spent a lot of money on this team, spend some more and either buy or develop a Thornton like player.

Originally Posted by Jack Schitt

See, now that's where you are mistaken. There are way more teams in the same boat - or worse off- than the Sabres than there are teams like the Bruins. I don't think the "rest of the league" is shaking their collective heads at the Sabres at this point. What teams have taken advantage of them other than the Bruins in the famous steamrolling?

I no longer get Center Ice, I see games on NESN, NBCSports and the NHL channel and I have seen the Sabres play only 4 times this year. Unless hockey has changed that drastically watching what happened last night can only leave other teams with a WTF are they celebrating about? It goes back to my point of this being hockey, a unique sport, the only one (beside boxing and MMA) that allows fighting. Fighting has always been part of the game, an important part, and Buffalo seems to have simply forgotten that and in doing so has created the illusion that getting beaten up is somehow cause for celebration. If, as you say, the team has little or no talent, how do you account for their 23 wins? They sure as heck didn't do it by intimidating other teams. Let's let the Miller incident rest, the team, and their fans, are still mentally unprepared to play at a top level. You simply cannot generate a winning season without generating a strong physical presence on the ice.

Originally Posted by Jack Schitt

The point wasn't to try and beat up the Bruins... it was to reclaim some self respect and build some team unity that had been lost. Winning the fights just wasn't the key - standing up for themselves was.

I won't beat the dead horse with our differences on "standing up."

Originally Posted by Jack Schitt

As far as the whole McQuaid turtle thing goes... it looks to me like Kaleta shoved Ference (would have been a fair matchup IMO) and McQuaid comes in from the right side. Kaleta sees him coming and grabs on while McQuaid sheds his mitts. Kaleta is holding on and has McQ in a headlock of sorts. His helmet pops off and he stands up, tries to shake his elbow pad off and prepares to throw a right. Kaleta is facing kind of sideways/away at this point and would be ripe for a snuffing... so he bails and goes for the takedown at wich point McQ turns the tables and has HIM in a headlock. They are wrestling on the ice with Kaleta still in the headlock while Weber drags them around for some stupid reason. McQ gets to his skates and drills Kaleta who is still on the ice. He could have either gotten hit from the blind side or gotten fed while he was on his knees on the ice with his left glove still on. He chose not to. Did he turtle? Yeah. The alternative was to get punched in vulnerable positions.

Jack, your analysis is exactly what I am talking about. You over compensate for a guy who had a number of opportunities to take on McQuaid one on one. He chose to turtle. Weber coming over as a third man shows just how desperate this team is. Then, to make matters worse, when Kaleta is finally saved he goes and gets all tough with McQuaid. "Playing to the crowd" as the impartial commentary went. What was he playing up, the fact that he was dragged around the ice in a fetal position for a minute or more. That's what Sabers fans are proud of? That's "standing up?" Look at how many words, good ones I might add, did you expend in an attempt to justify Kaleta's reaction to McQuaid?

[Jack Schitt]

Originally Posted by mainsail

I agree, but I think the problem is made worse by sentiments such as Kaleta "stood up" to Lucic. When a guy has a hold of your jersey after some serious words were exchanged, especially if that guy is Lucic, you would think a survival mechanism would kick in and you would throw the first punch. He didn't "stand up" to anything, he had no choice, Lucic had a hold of him and if, as you say, nothing really landed, then Kaleta went down on his own and the little celebratory dance he did in the penalty box was for...exactly what? My point is the Sabers fans are claiming mere survival as a cause for celebration. Does that say anything about the team?

He definitely had several choices! He could have a) Done nothing at all and ignored him B)Fake glove dropped and drew a penalty C) Turtled - as we all know he can do ... to imply that because he didn't throw the first punch he was somehow forced into it is puzzling.

Celebratory dance? Is that what you'd call that? I'd call it trying to get the crowd amped up. Nobody thought he would fight Lucic, but he did. He took a couple for the team. It was a whole lot more than "mere survival". It was a statement. I would think someone who has been around - not just hockey but life in general- as long as you have would rcognize that you don't always have to win, but you damn sure have to try.

It's tough to say how good a guy like Pominville could be if he had a teammate who covered his butt. It's really difficult to judge the true talent of this team because they are simply so soft. Even under Bettman, it's still hockey. Lots of teams out there are capable of smelling blood in the water and if you can't stand up to them you can't get the Cup.

Really? Do me a favor and list the "lots" of teams that can smell blood in the water. To the contrary... there are lots of fish, and a few sharks. The playoff require physical toughness, but not fighting these days. The Sabres can't fight - but they are just as physical as other teams in other ways. In reality... how many Cup winners over the last decade other than the Bruins and Ducks were considered "tough" fightingwise??

Jack, you and I simply have differing opinions on what "standing up" means. McCormick stood up and them bailed. Kaleta stood up and then bailed (remember, you guys who saw the slo mo, I didn't, say nothing landed), and Weber...well, we won't even go into that. If I were a Buffalo fan I would be thrilled to have thumped the Stanley Cup champs 6-0. That's a big time win. The fights would leave me completely disheartened.

Nobody is happy. No Sabres fan I encounter is delusional enough to think that *pooF* ... they're now "tough". They - in no uncertain terms- can't stack up to the Bruins at this pint - but then again - WHO CAN ????? You act like the Sabres are getting punked by every team - and that just ain't the case.

I no longer get Center Ice, I see games on NESN, NBCSports and the NHL channel and I have seen the Sabres play only 4 times this year. Unless hockey has changed that drastically

Uh... yes... hockey has changed pretty drastically over the past 7 or so years!

watching what happened last night can only leave other teams with a WTF are they celebrating about?

I disagree.... not to mention what "celebration" are you talking about? How many teams have engaged the Bruins? It's not a common thing. How many teams beat them up on the scoreboard like that?

It goes back to my point of this being hockey, a unique sport, the only one (beside boxing and MMA) that allows fighting. Fighting has always been part of the game, an important part, and Buffalo seems to have simply forgotten that and in doing so has created the illusion that getting beaten up is somehow cause for celebration.

Most of the teams in the NHL have forgotten about the role of fighting. Since you mainly watch the Bruins that fact may be lost on you.

Again... they weren't "celebrating" losing a fight - they were "celebrating" (?) the fact that they didn't turn tail and run away or sit by and do nothing! Is it really that hard to understand?

If, as you say, the team has little or no talent, how do you account for their 23 wins? They sure as heck didn't do it by intimidating other teams. Let's let the Miller incident rest, the team, and their fans, are still mentally unprepared to play at a top level. You simply cannot generate a winning season without generating a strong physical presence on the ice.

Even a blind squirell gets a nut every once in a while.... and again- since you mainly watch the Bruins - you have a skewed view of the real state of NHL hockey these days. Intimidation is a dying thing for 95% of the teams.... and again, look at the last decade of Cup winners and tell me how many were intimidating.

Jack, your analysis is exactly what I am talking about. You over compensate for a guy who had a number of opportunities to take on McQuaid one on one. He chose to turtle. Weber coming over as a third man shows just how desperate this team is. Then, to make matters worse, when Kaleta is finally saved he goes and gets all tough with McQuaid. "Playing to the crowd" as the impartial commentary went. What was he playing up, the fact that he was dragged around the ice in a fetal position for a minute or more. That's what Sabers fans are proud of? That's "standing up?" Look at how many words, good ones I might add, did you expend in an attempt to justify Kaleta's reaction to McQuaid?

I know you are a huge McQuaid fan, and that appears to me to cloud your vision. My post wasn't as much analysis as step by step of what actually occured. It goes both ways. McQuaid also had ample opportunity to engage Kaleta one on one. in fact... speaking of third man in (Weber?) he'd actually be the fourth man in because McQuaid stepped into a Kaleta/Ference altercation! He "got all tough"? How so? By yelling that he didn't like the cheapshot while he was down on the ice ?

He was "dragged around for a minute or more"? Really? First, it was WEBER who "dragged" BOTH Kaleta AND McQuaid, and for nowhere near a "minute"! And the fetal position? C'mon. At least be truthful! I'll give you this.... at the end of a 6-0 win, Kaleta probably wasn't looking for a fight. He got McQuaid in a headlock (after McQuaid grabbed him) I'll wager he was surprised when the helmet popped off and he was in a vulnerable position from then on.

[mainsail]

Originally Posted by Jack Schitt

I know you are a huge McQuaid fan, and that appears to me to cloud your vision. My post wasn't as much analysis as step by step of what actually occured. It goes both ways. McQuaid also had ample opportunity to engage Kaleta one on one. .

Jack,

I don't want this to go on and on...I will offer this as my final post to you on this one. You see the part of your post that I made bold above? McQuaid had dropped his gloves, ready to go. Kaleta NEVER even shed the mitts. He stuck his head between McQuaids legs making it almost impossible for McQuaid to hit him. He also maintained a death grip on McQuaids legs attempting a 2 point takedown. You can view it on the video...don't take my word for it. Now, please tell me how I'm the one with the clouded vision.

PS: Blind squirrels don't find nuts 50% of the time. Buffalo is 1 game under .500

[Jack Schitt]

Originally Posted by mainsail

Jack,

I don't want this to go on and on...I will offer this as my final post to you on this one. You see the part of your post that I made bold above? McQuaid had dropped his gloves, ready to go. Kaleta NEVER even shed the mitts. He stuck his head between McQuaids legs making it almost impossible for McQuaid to hit him. He also maintained a death grip on McQuaids legs attempting a 2 point takedown. You can view it on the video...don't take my word for it. Now, please tell me how I'm the one with the clouded vision.

It's your final post on the subject... but then you ask me to explain my view to you?? Makes sense.

EDIT: I should probably be more clear. When I said McQuaid had ample time to engage Kaleta if he so chose I meant in the 13 or so minutes he was on the ice prior to this incident.

Anyway, I see no reason to stop a civil exchange of viewpoints - so here goes:

Patrick Kaleta turtles on

Kaleta and Ference shove. McQuaid comes flying in (with mitts ON, he hadn't dropped them and didn't until they were grappling) and Kaleta sees him at the last second and they grab on. NOW McQ drops his gloves. Kaleta has him in a headlock, possibly not looking to fight in the last minutes of a 6-0 win, but McQ has other ideas. He escapes the headlock and is beside/behind Kaleta, loses his elbow pad and is ready to tee off. When Kaleta realizes this he has 2 options - get snuffed or go for the takedown. He chooses self preservation. McQQ has him in sort of a guillotine and they fall over... McQ sitting and Kaleta on top. Weber is grappling with a Bruin, but with one hand he has a hold of McQ's jersey and drags them about 10 feet on the ice. McQ makes it to his skates and throws an uppercut at Kaleta who is still prone on the ice. Again, he could cover up... or eat more punches. Again he chooses self preservation.

Your version differs from reality.

Edit: I just watched the vid to the end. I had missed when Lucic gave him a little shot on the way to the bench LOL

PS: Blind squirrels don't find nuts 50% of the time. Buffalo is 1 game under .500

What an odd role reversal! I say they suck... and you say they have talent. This is bizarro world.


Since you posted you didn't see the slo-mo of the Lucic/Kaleta bout, here it is (courtesy of dafoomie): slomo starts at about 1:29

Milan Lucic fights Patrick Kaleta w/SlowMo 2/8/12...

Lucic definitely was throwing with bad intentions... and he wins this fight 100% of the time... but the fact is that this one wasn't as bad as it looked in real time.

sidenote: LMAO at Milbury carping about Kaletas visor. I agree with the overall point, but I cant take a guy seriously who assaults children.

[Juicys1]

After watching the slomo, altho throwing with intent, lucic grazed kaletas chin once much like kaleta grazing him once , the other shots miss completely so I guess lucic with the win for intent, or landing on top? I just don't know....

Listen to maguire chirP as well, "he was on the receiving end of some major blows" good job there mr expert.

[cashman rules]

The blind leading the blind!

[Juicys1]

Originally Posted by cashman rules

The blind leading the blind!

Excuse me? I know the analogy but I don't see how it applies here.