Who Is The Toughest Team 2013

[Gunslinger]

Originally Posted by pesadillamal

This Orr injury could bring the Leafs back down to the pack. The team is playing like they are ten feet tall when he is in there. Not so sure things will be the same without him.

Not so fast. McLaren and Brown, though not as good as Orr, can still carry the load. And with Fraser also playing regular, T.O still has the edge. If Orr is gone long term than maybe....but like I said in an earlier post....its not whats on paper but how the teams have been playing. Up until now the Leafs have been playing tougher hockey than Boston. No if's or buts...only facts.

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by Tucker_316

I hate the Bruins but to be fair here, some of you are saying Mclaren(second best fighter on the leafs) stepped up to Scott while none of the Bruins have since he beat Thornton. While true, Mclaren is still a plug fighter, and thats his main job and the only reason why he has a gig in this league. He's gotta do that. Chara and Lucic honestly really dont. They'd do just as well I figure.

The other thing is that I dont believe the Leafs can do what you guys think they can do vs Boston. When is the last time a Leaf beat a Bruin in a fight? They can with a guy like Orr, but I think after Orr, the Bruins have their way with the rest of the Leafs squad. You can say all you want that the Leafs are super tough but they beat up on a Habs team that was playing without a heavy, which is something the B's have done too, and they fight a bit more this year..but Westgarth(not such a good fighter since being in the NHL) edged out Orr, and it's not like the Leafs guys have been dominating fights here..the only somewhat impressive win was Mclaren on Scott, aside from this Fraser edges Prust while earlier that same year Prust beats Brown, ya know?

Now fragile Orr is already down and out again, and sooner or later you gotta imagine Mclaren will be sitting when the Leafs are fighting for that 8th spot at the end of the season. Phaneuf will then continue barking and acting tough, and Komi might go for his yearly beating at the hands of Lucic.

I'll gladly chew on my words though if I turn out to be wrong.

Good points but while I agree that McLaren has to fight to stay in the league, I don't think he had to fight Scott in that situation. They were up by a goal in the third period and many fighters would have used that as an excuse not to fight the big guy. MacDermid is also a plug fighter but he wouldn't fight Scott and he went at the Leafs third best fighter instead of trying to tackle Orr or McLaren.

I also think the Leafs have had a few more impressive bouts than you give them credit for. Orr and Brown have put down Scott and Asham respectively. I thought Fraser did more than edge Prust in that fight. And while Orr and McLaren did not beat fighters on Montreal, that was a hell of a display of team unity and toughness as far as answering for Prust going at one of their skill players.

[cookie monster]

Originally Posted by pesadillamal

All I know is that this whole opinion crusade you have been on looks pretty silly when you take into account that you have 63 posts in this thread.

If you can't accept the fact that the Leafs have a better winning percentage than the Bruins that's fine. Either disagree with me or ignore me because this whole sitting on the fence and chirping about opinions act got old quick. You yourself have questioned many people's opinions in this thread even though you are now using the "neither person is right or wrong" slogan as a crutch.

The Leafs have been the tougher team this year. That is a fact that could only be debated by a vegetable. To go on about a team with "7 fighters" but only 10 fights is crazy.

And by the way, just about every Bruin fight this year has a clear decision that could not be argued by anybody that knows what a hockey fight is. Lucic beat Carkner, how is that opinion? Thornton beat Rupp and Barch, lost to Scott. Campbell lost twice, McQuaid beat Boyle, and Macdermid had a draw and a win against Fraser. The only debatable outcome is Fraser - MacDermid round 1. 9 out of 10 fights have decisions that are clear as day facts.

Not only is your opinion crusade a cop-out, it is flat out wrong. Many more fights have a clear decision than fights that could go either way based on opinion. The Leafs have a few that could be debated but they still have a better winning percentage than the Bruins, even if the people that would rather vote against the Leafs and blame it on homers rather than enjoy a team playing the game the right way voted against the Leafs in those few fights.

The sooner you accept something like "who's toughest" is strictly an opinion, they better off everyone will be.


Again, all I'm saying is I'm entitled to an opinion, just like you are, which I never denied. It's not a "cop out", it's the same thing I've been saying all along. I'm not saying you're wrong for thinking the Leafs. What I'm saying is it isn't a fact. It's opinion. It's all I've ever said.

Make a poll. I guarantee no team will get 100%. Why? Because it's an opinion.

Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion, that's why we debate .

I accept and respect your opinion is the Leafs. Why can't you just accept the fact I have a different opinion? What is with this pathetic need to be validated?

Keep ranting on with your over dramatic posts, it won't change fact that this is an opinion question. I feel bad you can't grasp this simple concept.

You have your opinion, I have mine, and others have a different one. Great, that doesn't mean any of us are wrong.

We disagree. Great. Enjoy your opinion, act like a grown up and move on.

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by cookie monster

Exactly. Half the people here see McLaren winning, the other half Scott. Seeing how there is not an official stat, no one is wrong.

There are obvious stupid people that give opinions, like 4% that voted Scott/Thornton a draw, but it's not wrong or invalid.

All I'm saying is having an opinion one team is tougher than the other isn't wrong. You can disagree, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

I know you don't like hypothetical question, but please humor me.
If the Canadians acquired and dressed McIntyre and Gratton and put them on a line with Prust, would they be the toughest team now, even though 18 of the 21 guys on the bench can't fight?

I voted Scott/Thornton a draw. I justified it with the belief that for as much damage as Scott's hand was doing to Thornton's head the same was being done to Scott's hand by Thornton's head.

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by cookie monster

The sooner you accept something like "who's toughest" is strictly an opinion, they better off everyone will be.


Again, all I'm saying is I'm entitled to an opinion, just like you are, which I never denied. It's not a "cop out", it's the same thing I've been saying all along. I'm not saying you're wrong for thinking the Leafs. What I'm saying is it isn't a fact. It's opinion. It's all I've ever said.

Make a poll. I guarantee no team will get 100%. Why? Because it's an opinion.

Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion, that's why we debate .

I accept and respect your opinion is the Leafs. Why can't you just accept the fact I have a different opinion? What is with this pathetic need to be validated?

Keep ranting on with your over dramatic posts, it won't change fact that this is an opinion question. I feel bad you can't grasp this simple concept.

You have your opinion, I have mine, and others have a different one. Great, that doesn't mean any of us are wrong.

We disagree. Great. Enjoy your opinion, act like a grown up and move on.

That's fine CM but every time someone makes a point that may show your opinion to be a little odd you just brush it off with this new stance on opinions. Now every hockey fight is an opinion and we can't talk about winning percentages even though you are the one who said that everyone likes quantity over quality. If we can't talk about winning percentages then quality is thrown out the window.

Toronto is the toughest team on the ice so far this year. That is a fact backed up by a lot of evidence. If someone feels that the toughest team should be decided on paper, just reading names off that have done squat so far, then that is an opinion but it could still be debated. I have a tough time crowning paper champs.

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by cookie monster

We disagree. Great. Enjoy your opinion, act like a grown up and move on.

I forgot about this line in bold. Quite ridiculous considering the source.

Originally Posted by cookie monster

Here's some math for ya that's actually a fact...

Last night the Leafs had 3 guys in their line up that can fight. The Bruins had 7 guys that can fight.

What number is bigger?

Do you need my neighbor here to help you?




The team with the most guys that can fight is the tougher team, not the team with 1 tough guy and 2 middleweights...

FACT!

And that is not the first time you posted a picture from Sesame Street. I strive to one day be as mature as you.

[cookie monster]

Originally Posted by pesadillamal

That's fine CM but every time someone makes a point that may show your opinion to be a little odd you just brush it off with this new stance on opinions. Now every hockey fight is an opinion and we can't talk about winning percentages even though you are the one who said that everyone likes quantity over quality. If we can't talk about winning percentages then quality is thrown out the window.

Toronto is the toughest team on the ice so far this year. That is a fact backed up by a lot of evidence. If someone feels that the toughest team should be decided on paper, just reading names off that have done squat so far, then that is an opinion but it could still be debated. I have a tough time crowning paper champs.

But true at all. My stance on opinions hasn't changed since my first post. I've said NUMEROUS times I understand and respect people that pick the Leafs over the Bruins.

The Leafs have the toughest line in hockey easily in Orr, Brown and McClaren. My point being after that the drop off is quite significant, where as the Bruins have more guys overall that can fight. That's all. I'm not saying what your idea of team toughness is wrong and less valid than mine.

I have no problem with you or anyone saying the Leafs are tougher. My problem is people saying "No the Leafs are tougher, you're wrong what I'm saying is fact".

I'm usually not so adamant and argue this much here (out side of politics threads lol), but the fact that people just can't admit that giving your opinion on who's tougher is just that, an opinion. There is nothing official

You use great facts to back up opinion, but it's still just an opinion. See what I'm saying? Look through the thread and you'll see I've been pretty consistent that what I'm arguing is the definition of fact vs opinion, not what those opinions are.

And my comment about fight percentages was just trying to point out that using the fight winner percentage of hockeyfights.com is flawed as large elements of homers affect the voting. If that's not what you meant by percentages, I apologize.

[rbl2010]

Originally Posted by cookie monster

But true at all. My stance on opinions hasn't changed since my first post. I've said NUMEROUS times I understand and respect people that pick the Leafs over the Bruins.

The Leafs have the toughest line in hockey easily in Orr, Brown and McClaren. My point being after that the drop off is quite significant, where as the Bruins have more guys overall that can fight. That's all. I'm not saying what your idea of team toughness is wrong and less valid than mine.

I have no problem with you or anyone saying the Leafs are tougher. My problem is people saying "No the Leafs are tougher, you're wrong what I'm saying is fact".

I'm usually not so adamant and argue this much here (out side of politics threads lol), but the fact that people just can't admit that giving your opinion on who's tougher is just that, an opinion. There is nothing official

You use great facts to back up opinion, but it's still just an opinion. See what I'm saying? Look through the thread and you'll see I've been pretty consistent that what I'm arguing is the definition of fact vs opinion, not what those opinions are.

And my comment about fight percentages was just trying to point out that using the fight winner percentage of hockeyfights.com is flawed as large elements of homers affect the voting. If that's not what you meant by percentages, I apologize.

I'm sure you were the Captain of your Debate Team/Club or whatever. Is there not a point at which you say "OK EVERYONE. FOR NOW - at least UNTIL Orr, Brown, McLaren, and Frazer get KO'd or TKO'd" I'll just have to accept that this TML team is tougher than mine? If not please tell me the colour of the sky in your world. I'm curious.

[slashtrey]

Originally Posted by rbl2010

I'm sure you were the Captain of your Debate Team/Club or whatever. Is there not a point at which you say "OK EVERYONE. FOR NOW - at least UNTIL Orr, Brown, McLaren, and Frazer get KO'd or TKO'd" I'll just have to accept that this TML team is tougher than mine? If not please tell me the colour of the sky in your world. I'm curious.

Cookie Monster Logic:

Isn't the color of the sky a matter of opinion?

If the sky had a line brawl with the sun, the sun would win.

In that hypothetical case, the sky would be yellow.

Therefore, the sky is yellow.

Yellow is one of the Bruins' colors.

Bruins confirmed as toughest team.

[rbl2010]

Originally Posted by slashtrey

Cookie Monster Logic:

Isn't the color of the sky a matter of opinion?

If the sky had a line brawl with the sun, the sun would win.

In that hypothetical case, the sky would be yellow.

Therefore, the sky is yellow.

Yellow is one of the Bruins' colors.

Bruins confirmed as toughest team.

Classic. Great post Slashtrey

[brawls16]

Aaaaaand Brown drops McGinn, lol!

...but hey, Boston has Ference. Right?

[cookie monster]

Originally Posted by slashtrey

Cookie Monster Logic:

Isn't the color of the sky a matter of opinion?

If the sky had a line brawl with the sun, the sun would win.

In that hypothetical case, the sky would be yellow.

Therefore, the sky is yellow.

Yellow is one of the Bruins' colors.

Bruins confirmed as toughest team.

Cute...still doesn't change the fact that what you're saying isn't a fact, but opinion.

The Bruins colors are black and gold, not yellow.

That's called a fact.

[Boston Garden]

Originally Posted by brawls16

Aaaaaand Brown drops McGinn, lol!

...but hey, Boston has Ference. Right?

Hey I give the Leafs all the credit in the world for what they're doing now.

However it's ironic that you mock the Bruins when in there only meeting with the Leafs...a certain player got dropped.

[Broons66]

Hell yea, cheers and much respects to the Leafs, the toughest team in '13, no doubt. I'm really looking forward to a 1 v 8 matchup, B's v Leafs come playoff time. Should be quick work.

[Muffin_Cakes]

Originally Posted by brawls16

Aaaaaand Brown drops McGinn, lol!

...but hey, Boston has Ference. Right?

No Lucic jumped and pounded Mike Weaver last night so Bruins > Leafs