Who Is The Toughest Team 2013

[Dark Light]

I'm going to go with the leafs. Their tough guys McLaren & Brown get decent minutes played. Definitely Fraser gets good playing time and Colton Orr is getting more minutes. And watching Mclaren fight Scott, I think he has potential to be categorized as a super heavyweight.

That make it two huge heavy's in one team. I can't think of any other team like that, I guess Boston perhaps. Would love to see McLaren and Lucic go to solve that matter.

Also, the Leafs not only lead the league in fights but also hits. I think that to me is a reasonable barometer in measuring how physically tough a team will be to play against.

[cookie monster]

Originally Posted by pesadillamal

I don't remember seeing anybody say quantity over quality, let alone everybody.

Fact - Leafs have won more fights than the Bruins have been in.

Fact - The Leafs have a better winning percentage in fights than the Bruins.

I will take quantity AND quality over hypothetical situations any day of the week.

Fact....winning and losing a hockey fight is strictly opinion, so everything you've said it's incorrect.

Fact...you're entitled to your opinion as am I. Neither of is right or wrong. You're in the majority, I'm in the minority. Doesn't mean a thing.


Enjoy your day.

[tomnuetten]

Originally Posted by Dark Light

Also, the Leafs not only lead the league in fights but also hits. I think that to me is a reasonable barometer in measuring how physically tough a team will be to play against.

I agree with you, that the leafs are (or play like) the toughest team at the moment.

But you can´t use hit statistics to prove this point... a team who has puck possession most of the time can´t throw as much hits as a team with less puck possession.

Hits statistics are "biased" (can´t find a better word), in some buildings by some games every contact is called a hit. next time they only note the big hits...


I like how toronto throw there body´s around (what I´ve seen till now) but I don´t like the hit statistics as proof for toughness

[HordiBrusk29]

Some of you people are taking this way too seriously....

At the end of the day it's all subjective and there really is no "right" or "wrong" answer. On any given day one team can be "tougher" than another team. And the very next day that other team could return the favor. Furthermore, define "tough"? That in itself is subjective.

As of right now I think the Leafs are playing the toughest out of any team in the league but that doesn't mean they are untouchable. I'm glad the Leafs are tougher and having some success because it was painfully boring watching them the past couple of seasons. I just hope McLaren sticks around all year. He deserves to be in the NHL full time.

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by cookie monster

Fact....winning and losing a hockey fight is strictly opinion, so everything you've said it's incorrect.

Fact...you're entitled to your opinion as am I. Neither of is right or wrong. You're in the majority, I'm in the minority. Doesn't mean a thing.


Enjoy your day.

My opinion is that every time you are confronted with facts you use the word "opinion" as a crutch.

[Jack Schitt]

Originally Posted by cookie monster

Fact....winning and losing a hockey fight is strictly opinion, so everything you've said it's incorrect


Enjoy your day.

IMO the vast majority of hockeyfights are draws, but to say that there aren't clear winners and it is always strictly opinion is incorrect. Sometimes it's very obvious who wins a fight. Take Scott's KD comeback win last for example!

[cookie monster]

Originally Posted by pesadillamal

My opinion is that every time you are confronted with facts you use the word "opinion" as a crutch.

That's not opinion, that's an accusation.

An opinion would be "I think when Cookie Monster tries to deflect my delusional claim that my opinion is fact by using the word opinion , he is using the word opinion as a crutch."

Again, show me proof that the Leafs have a higher fight winning percentage?

Show me how this is fact. What you're saying is opinion, not fact.

This entire website and its reason for existence is opinion.

"Did you see that fight?"

"Oh yes, it was great, I think **** won."

"Really? I think **** won."

Neither person is right or wrong.

If I think Bruins...great, you think Leafs.....great, some have said Sabres....even better.


Winning and losing hockey fights are opinions. Who's tougher is opinion not fact.

There is no official stat or rankings. Do you understand that?

[cookie monster]

Originally Posted by Jack Schitt

IMO the vast majority of hockeyfights are draws, but to say that there aren't clear winners and it is always strictly opinion is incorrect. Sometimes it's very obvious who wins a fight. Take Scott's KD comeback win last for example!

Exactly. Half the people here see McLaren winning, the other half Scott. Seeing how there is not an official stat, no one is wrong.

There are obvious stupid people that give opinions, like 4% that voted Scott/Thornton a draw, but it's not wrong or invalid.

All I'm saying is having an opinion one team is tougher than the other isn't wrong. You can disagree, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

I know you don't like hypothetical question, but please humor me.
If the Canadians acquired and dressed McIntyre and Gratton and put them on a line with Prust, would they be the toughest team now, even though 18 of the 21 guys on the bench can't fight?

[slashtrey]

Originally Posted by cookie monster

I know you don't like hypothetical question, but please humor me.
If the Canadians acquired and dressed McIntyre and Gratton and put them on a line with Prust, would they be the toughest team now, even though 18 of the 21 guys on the bench can't fight?

Automatically? No.

But they would have potential. If all three of them had a fight every game and beat up every heavy and middle in the entire league and also weren't afraid to pound on anyone that so much as touched one of their skill players, then they would be in the discussion for toughest team, sure.

[cashman rules]

Originally Posted by 2,5,10GameMatch

Lucic is clearly a guy who "knows better" in some cases, there is no way he will ever open up with Orr if they fight again, if Orr really lands one on the HUGE SCNOZZ?? it will be UGLY......

Christ there is some real idiotic postings in this thread, its clear that to this stage?? Toronto is the toughest team, not only are the top 4 guys fighting/enforcing regularly but even guys like Kadri are pasting people! its called 'team tough'....yea it can change but I doubt it, not with Carlyle as coach. God bless you Randy!!


And I feel Mark Fraser just might be this season's "dark horse" top 10'er, he has the size, strength and punch power to handle the Chara's, Lucic's of the league without a doubt and will be suprising some people before this year is done.

Easily your dumbest post ever!

[rbl2010]

Originally Posted by gdameo

I'm neither. Sure I'm Sabres fan but if somebody did that to Miller, I expect somebody to jump on him. Brown didn't do anything but hugging him. He should've just dropped the gloves and fight him. It was early in game and will worth the extra penalty.

Agree 100% even though I'm a homer (guilty as charged) Brown should have forced the issue and I said that last night in the Brawl thread immediately after the non-response/2 min. for nothing play. Toronto is still the toughest team.

[rbl2010]

Originally Posted by cookie monster

That's not opinion, that's an accusation.

An opinion would be "I think when Cookie Monster tries to deflect my delusional claim that my opinion is fact by using the word opinion , he is using the word opinion as a crutch."

Again, show me proof that the Leafs have a higher fight winning percentage?

Show me how this is fact. What you're saying is opinion, not fact.

This entire website and its reason for existence is opinion.

"Did you see that fight?"

"Oh yes, it was great, I think **** won."

"Really? I think **** won."

Neither person is right or wrong.

If I think Bruins...great, you think Leafs.....great, some have said Sabres....even better.


Winning and losing hockey fights are opinions. Who's tougher is opinion not fact.

There is no official stat or rankings. Do you understand that?

Hey champ, I'd be ok if you took it easy with the 'delusional' and fact vs. opinion comments. Fact: Toronto leads league in hits and fights.

Using winning percentage to dictate toughest team is irrelevent. For instance, a team with, say 21 fights at 50-75% win is tougher than a team with 10 fights at 100% wins. I'm sure you were great on your debate team, but take a deep breath here CM. Please let the rest of us know what YOU think the Leafs winning percentage is, and I'm sure we can figure out some quasi 'official' rankings ok?

Thanks.

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by cookie monster

That's not opinion, that's an accusation.

An opinion would be "I think when Cookie Monster tries to deflect my delusional claim that my opinion is fact by using the word opinion , he is using the word opinion as a crutch."

Again, show me proof that the Leafs have a higher fight winning percentage?

Show me how this is fact. What you're saying is opinion, not fact.

This entire website and its reason for existence is opinion.

"Did you see that fight?"

"Oh yes, it was great, I think **** won."

"Really? I think **** won."

Neither person is right or wrong.

If I think Bruins...great, you think Leafs.....great, some have said Sabres....even better.


Winning and losing hockey fights are opinions. Who's tougher is opinion not fact.

There is no official stat or rankings. Do you understand that?

All I know is that this whole opinion crusade you have been on looks pretty silly when you take into account that you have 63 posts in this thread.

If you can't accept the fact that the Leafs have a better winning percentage than the Bruins that's fine. Either disagree with me or ignore me because this whole sitting on the fence and chirping about opinions act got old quick. You yourself have questioned many people's opinions in this thread even though you are now using the "neither person is right or wrong" slogan as a crutch.

The Leafs have been the tougher team this year. That is a fact that could only be debated by a vegetable. To go on about a team with "7 fighters" but only 10 fights is crazy.

And by the way, just about every Bruin fight this year has a clear decision that could not be argued by anybody that knows what a hockey fight is. Lucic beat Carkner, how is that opinion? Thornton beat Rupp and Barch, lost to Scott. Campbell lost twice, McQuaid beat Boyle, and Macdermid had a draw and a win against Fraser. The only debatable outcome is Fraser - MacDermid round 1. 9 out of 10 fights have decisions that are clear as day facts.

Not only is your opinion crusade a cop-out, it is flat out wrong. Many more fights have a clear decision than fights that could go either way based on opinion. The Leafs have a few that could be debated but they still have a better winning percentage than the Bruins, even if the people that would rather vote against the Leafs and blame it on homers rather than enjoy a team playing the game the right way voted against the Leafs in those few fights.

[Tucker_316]

I hate the Bruins but to be fair here, some of you are saying Mclaren(second best fighter on the leafs) stepped up to Scott while none of the Bruins have since he beat Thornton. While true, Mclaren is still a plug fighter, and thats his main job and the only reason why he has a gig in this league. He's gotta do that. Chara and Lucic honestly really dont. They'd do just as well I figure.

The other thing is that I dont believe the Leafs can do what you guys think they can do vs Boston. When is the last time a Leaf beat a Bruin in a fight? They can with a guy like Orr, but I think after Orr, the Bruins have their way with the rest of the Leafs squad. You can say all you want that the Leafs are super tough but they beat up on a Habs team that was playing without a heavy, which is something the B's have done too, and they fight a bit more this year..but Westgarth(not such a good fighter since being in the NHL) edged out Orr, and it's not like the Leafs guys have been dominating fights here..the only somewhat impressive win was Mclaren on Scott, aside from this Fraser edges Prust while earlier that same year Prust beats Brown, ya know?

Now fragile Orr is already down and out again, and sooner or later you gotta imagine Mclaren will be sitting when the Leafs are fighting for that 8th spot at the end of the season. Phaneuf will then continue barking and acting tough, and Komi might go for his yearly beating at the hands of Lucic.

I'll gladly chew on my words though if I turn out to be wrong.

[Boston Garden]

Toughness can be broken into a formula: Hits+Fights+HW's-Euro's÷Fight Card=Winning Percentage

Of course this argument is subjective, it's just like the posters that make out the top 10 fighters of all time lists. Probert is the consensus #1 fighter but you can't convince me that he would beat MacIntyre in a 10 fight series. Fight card and winning % be damned. I'm most certainly probably in the minority in that argument, but it cannot be proven wrong.

This thread has become nauseating, at this point I wish a team tomorrow would have a bench clearing brawl or do something to stifle this argument for just a day.