The Top 10 Thread

[IcePlayer]

Originally Posted by Sapunka16

What about D.J. King? He's been having a bit of a disappointing season, but he has a win against Thornton in preaseason, and drew with Boogaard last year in a pretty good fight (some even think he beat Boogy). I don't think anything Neil has done is more impressive than that. John Scott could also be ahead of Neil.. Compare their fights against Westgarth.

You could argue D.J. King ahead of Neil, I won't argue that, but King has been poor this year, I don't think there's that much difference. No way is Scott worthy of top 10 yet, he needs to fight someone in the top 5.

[Isles4life]

We're approaching the New Year, so I'm going to take a stab at a mid-season ranking. This year has been incredibly difficult to rank a top 10 for in my opinion. A combination of the inactivity of some top-level guys, injuries, and unexpected outcomes has thrown the rankings into chaos. Here’s what I came up with, although there's a lot that could change by season's end:

1. Derek Boogaard
2. Steve MacIntyre
3. Colton Orr
4. Shawn Thornton
5. Matt Carkner
6. Eric Godard
7. Deryk Engelland
8. Trevor Gillies
9. Paul Bissonnette
10. John Scott
HM: Eric Boulton

In my opinion, Boogaard is still #1, although he’s now sidelined. He may not have looked as dominant as some would have expected in his scraps against Thornton and Carkner, but neither outcome comes close to unseating him since there is no one else really deserving of the top spot.

MacIntyre has looked impressive in limited work, except for his tilts with Boogaard. No one else has been close to dominant enough to unseat either guy from the top 2 in my opinion.

Colton Orr is a tough one to rank right now. Aside from troubles with the top 2 guys on this list, he’s had major issues with Engelland, who came out of nowhere to pick up 2 impressive victories against Orr. Outside of those 3 opponents (which is a lot), he’s gotten the job done pretty well. I just can’t knock him out of the top 3 yet because I don’t think anyone else has done a whole lot better. Orr has the potential to either solidify his standing, or plummet with another loss.

Thornton has had a great year so far, but I think the Boogaard fight was closer to being a draw, and I would say he did narrowly lose to Gillies. Very good technical fighter who has done well, but just having some close battles with strong opponents doesn’t do enough for me to rank him any higher just yet.

After that, it’s an even bigger mess. Godard’s been inactive, but we all know what he’s capable of. Carkner is still in the mix, and Gillies has also performed like a guy pretty deserving of a spot in the back end of the top 10. Bissonnette hasn’t been bad either. Engelland is hard to rank. Great showings against Orr and Shelley, but otherwise a lesser fight card aside from Bissonnette. Where he actually belongs on this list is hard to say just yet, but his victories can't be ignored.

And the John Scott controversy continues. People will still say he’s unproven against the top-tier, which I agree with, but his continued body of work is still impressive, and with recent wins over Westgarth (who has struggled) and Koci (a rusty second-tier heavyweight), I think he’s clawed his way into my top 10, at least for now, since I don't think anyone else has earned it.

[Sapunka16]

Originally Posted by IcePlayer

No way is Scott worthy of top 10 yet, he needs to fight someone in the top 5.

I'm not on the John Scott bandwagon either, but Neil hasn't won a fight against a top 10 heavy in the past 2 years either.

Originally Posted by Isles4Life

(everything)

I agree with most of your post, and that's why I'm asking you this; How does Bissonnette get there? Has he done anything besides beat Engelland?

Also, where do you have Shelley at this point. He had an awful stretch that culminated with the loss to Kassian, but he was pretty strong towards the end of last year, and he looked better in his latest fight against Thornton. He doesn't get at least an HM from you?

[Isles4life]

Originally Posted by Sapunka16

I agree with most of your post, and that's why I'm asking you this; How does Bissonnette get there? Has he done anything besides beat Engelland?

Also, where do you have Shelley at this point. He had an awful stretch that culminated with the loss to Kassian, but he was pretty strong towards the end of last year, and he looked better in his latest fight against Thornton. He doesn't get at least an HM from you?

Basically, I view the back end of the top 10 as fairly weak and subject to a lot of possible change. I chose to include Bissonnette because I believe he has won all his regular season bouts, and in addition to the victory over Engelland he also has wins over Janssen and Parros, neither of whom are elite-level competition, but shouldn't be ignored either.

I thought about including Shelley as an honorable mention as well, but I just opted not to include him in my original post. I decided to include Boulton because I was pretty torn on whether to stick him or Scott at #10. Shelley has struggled early this season, and I think he dropped out of the top 10 for the time being, although another good showing against a quality opponent could put him very much back in the discussion.

[ThrowdownSJ408]

Boogaard
MacIntyre
Thornton
Orr
Carkner
Godard
Engellend
Gillies
Scott (people need to get over it, hes worthy)
Shelley

HM

Biz,Parros, Boulton

Westgarth, King, Belak get nothing from me

[IcePlayer]

Originally Posted by Isles4life

I thought about including Shelley as an honorable mention as well, but I just opted not to include him in my original post. I decided to include Boulton because I was pretty torn on whether to stick him or Scott at #10. Shelley has struggled early this season, and I think he dropped out of the top 10 for the time being, although another good showing against a quality opponent could put him very much back in the discussion.

100% agree. After the top 4/5 it's really difficult to place them. It could change at any given time dependant on who fights who, and the results of those fights.

If Scott fought any 2 of the top 5 fighters and got an edge or a decent showing, it would be impossible not to have him in the top 10.

Up until now though, he hasn't.

[29th_Candidate]

Originally Posted by Sapunka16

Either way, we have a huge toss up after #1 Boogy and #2 MacIntyre, which is why I haven't posted my list yet.. Godard, Thornton, Gillies, King, and Shelley could all change spots after just 1 fight.

Though I don't think Gillies should be that high yet. You referenced last year's win against Boulton as part of your case, but take into account Colton Orr's performance last year. I think Orr is still #3 at this point, especially if you are taking into account where they were at the end of last season.

Agreed.

I started off by trying to restrict my list to this season's fights, but it's hard not considering a fighter's battles from past seasons, particularly in cases where the fighter has only had 3 or 4 fights so far, or (as in Orr's case) when you know how dominant the fighter has been in seasons past. Like you (and somebody else in this thread) said, just about any one of these guys could probably take anybody else on the list on a given night. It will be interesting to revisit their fight cards in a few more weeks to reevaluate the positioning.

[ProudCanadian]

So far this year I would go with maybe Boogaard and MacIntyre as One /two. However with Boogaard being injured again I am holding off on that. He has a high record of injury, and also not being dressed when healhy. MacIntyre goes up and down between the NHl and the AHL but looks good when he is up in the NHL. Engelend has been impresive, but to me no one has stepped up to be an all around champ. Last year I liked Orr for number one but he has so far this year had a few losses that makes me put him somewhere between 3 -5.

[illukka]

top 3 of boogie, big mac and orr could be the consensus. every other spot on top 10 is debatable.
where is belak for example. based on ability he is easily top 5 material. but the fokkers dont play him at all..
same for gratts

[quixote]

I somehow got to this site from youtube. Unfortunately Rocky Thompson didn't make your lists (ok...so he wasn't in the N too long...but when he was there he was committed!!)) nor did Bob Nystrom (but I think I recall he was just dirty).

I just wanted to thank you for having this data and analysis out there...it is a great read and a good trip down memory lane (e.g Semenko, Plett, etc)

Nice work and thanks.

quixote

[JohnnyBravo]

1. Derek Boogard
2. Steve MacIntyre
3. Colton Orr
4. Matt Carkner
5. Eric Godard
6. D.J. King
7. Trevor Gillies
8. Paul Bissonnette
9. Shawn Thornton
10. John Scott

11-15: Shelley, Engelland, Boulton, Koci and Parros. Psst, take a look at young gun Kyle Clifford, he is climbing the rankings fast, really fast.

[Juha82]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

1. Derek Boogard
2. Steve MacIntyre
3. Colton Orr
4. Matt Carkner
5. Eric Godard
6. D.J. King
7. Trevor Gillies
8. Paul Bissonnette
9. Shawn Thornton
10. John Scott

11-15: Shelley, Engelland, Boulton, Koci and Parros. Psst, take a look at young gun Kyle Clifford, he is climbing the rankings fast, really fast.

Just take off King from Top10 and adds Engelland to Top10 list so then your list is PERFECT one
i still wonders that Thornton's 9.rank.

[Sapunka16]

Originally Posted by quixote

I somehow got to this site from youtube. Unfortunately Rocky Thompson didn't make your lists (ok...so he wasn't in the N too long...but when he was there he was committed!!)) nor did Bob Nystrom (but I think I recall he was just dirty).

I just wanted to thank you for having this data and analysis out there...it is a great read and a good trip down memory lane (e.g Semenko, Plett, etc)

Nice work and thanks.

quixote

http://www.hockeyfights.com/forums/f18/

[smashem]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

1. Derek Boogard
2. Steve MacIntyre
3. Colton Orr
4. Matt Carkner
5. Eric Godard
6. D.J. King
7. Trevor Gillies
8. Paul Bissonnette
9. Shawn Thornton
10. John Scott

11-15: Shelley, Engelland, Boulton, Koci and Parros. Psst, take a look at young gun Kyle Clifford, he is climbing the rankings fast, really fast.

I have no idea why anyone would even list Shelley in reality he is 1-3-2 what good is that and he should be 1-4-1 the Flyer fan base got him the draw against Thorts that is a straight out fact, King #6 Why he has been horrible even to his own fan's but to each his own we all do have our Fav fighters

[Sapunka16]

Originally Posted by smashem

I have no idea why anyone would even list Shelley in reality he is 1-3-2 what good is that and he should be 1-4-1 the Flyer fan base got him the draw against Thorts that is a straight out fact, King #6 Why he has been horrible even to his own fan's but to each his own we all do have our Fav fighters

The Flyer fan base got him the draw? That fight was a draw, edge Shelley if anything. You're an incredible homer if you think that was a win for Thornton.

The only reason Thornton is making the lists this year is because he's been able to get some Draws against Boogaard and Godard. Last season Shelley clearly beat Godard and dropped Colton Orr. Not this season, but it's not so long ago that it's irrelevant. Shelley can definitely move up, but Thornton has never shown the ability to really beat someone like Shelley can.