The Top 10 Thread

[hockey doc]

Today's List

Boogie
McGratts
Godard
Carkner
Brash
BGL
Mac
Scott
Belak
Orr

[The Woodsman]

In order to get a proper read on the top 10, specifically to judge whether or not Matt Carkner belongs in there with the big boys, (Top 5 or bottom 5) I am waiting for the prospect of these fights:

Carkner vs. Godard - Pittsburgh - Jan 28
Carkner vs. Orr - Toronto - Feb 6
Carkner vs. McGrattan - Ottawa - Feb 9
Carkner vs. MacIntyre - Ottawa - Mar 27

In my opinion he does not quite have all of the names required on his card to be any higher than 7 or 8. With guys like Laraque, King, Peters, etc on the outside looking in, this opens up some spots in the top 10. Hopefully MacIntyre is up with the big club at the end of March. Maybe the Panthers will be established as sellers by that time, and it will open up some roster spots.

Would have been nice to see him go with Boogaard back on December 19th.

Carkner has fought Shawn Thornton 3 times so far this year, and Shawn is winning the series 1-0-2. Shawn also has basically the exact same card as Carkner, an even series with Orr, and a win against Brashear, (Although I saw it as no more than an edge) then a bunch of bottom-tier guys and middle weights. For this reason it is hard to justify putting Carkner so far ahead of Thornton in the top 10 without seeing at least a couple more of the big boys added to his card.

[OneilltheGiant]

Originally Posted by OneilltheGiant

So after a few months since the season started my latest top ten list starts like this...

1.... Donald Brashear W 5 / D 1 / L 2

2.... Colton Orr W 5 / D 3 / L 2

3....Brian McGrattan W 4 / D 2 / L 1

4....Steve MacIntyre W 4 / D 0 / L 1

5....Wade Belak W 1 / D 1 / L 1

6....George Laraque W 1 / D 1 / L 1

7....Derek Boogaard W 1 / D 2 / L0

8....Eric Godard W 2 / D 1 / L 2

9....John Scott W 4 / D 1 / L 0

10.... Open None of the rest have made a strong enough case yet...

So Brash heads the list just above Orr for the simple fact Orr is yet to beat Brash in a fight....
McGrattan just heads MacIntyre because of his close win over MacIntyre..... Belak, Laraque, Boogaard, Godard are all about even so far... But because of previous years i listed them the way I did............ Parros, Ivanans, Shelley all drop of the list at the minute.... McGrattan after a season out comes back strongly so far, and big John Scott joins the top ten near the bottom... 10th place is wide open between a lot of guys....

My list since last month now looks like this....

1. Brian McGrattan or Derek Boogaard - Easy the two best records this season at the minute, I think it's hard to put Gratts ahead of Boogie at this stage as Boogie has dominated Gratts in all their fights so far including dropping Gratts this season...

3. Colton Orr - Bit in active since his lose to Carkner, so Orr drops a place as he has only one win over Shaone Morrisonn which you expect...

4. Steve MacIntyre - Hopefully he can get some more call up's and fights soon.. 2 good wins over Rechlicz, a close fight with Gratts, and two big wins over Orr and Brash keep Mac high on my list...But he needs to fight more...

5. Donald Brashear - A few disappointing fights by Brash drop him from 1st last month to 5th this month. He needs a few wins and soon if he's to make it back into the top 3...

6. George Laraque - In active but still one of the best in the league.. He has the chance to fight Brashear as they play against one another twice this month, also Carkner as they also play twice this month, as well as a game against Janssen's St Louis.. So hopefully Laraque can up his fight tally by the end of January.

7. Eric Godard - Godard goes up a place with a win over Riley Cote and a good performance against Gratts which I called a draw. I think with Rupp and him sharing duties this year it will effect Godard's card at the end of the year and Godard will have less fights.

8. Wade Belak - Belak record does not look good this year but when you look at who he has fought you can see why. Both Boogie and Gratts are having good years and Belak has lost to Gratts 3 times and Boogie once. His only win coming against Parros. Belak drops another 3 places...

9. Matt Carkner - Has been impressive of late with wins over Orr, Adams and Brashear while losing a close fight to Thornton.. Carkner been very active this year and joins my top 10 for the 1st time.. If he fights Laraque this month and wins he could go higher.

10. John Scott - Very good record this season but his card is weak compared to the other guys on my top 10.. I know Boogaard tends to fight the other teams top guys while Scott gets the odd heavyweight.. Matt Greene and Alexandre Bolduc are 2 guys I would expect Scott to look good against, this is why Scott stay where he is on my list...

Others worth a mention

Darcy Hordichuk, Raitis Ivanans, Shawn Thornton, Eric Boulton

[Banky]

Please stop putting Belak, Laraque, and Shelly in any top 10 lists.

[skacore]

Originally Posted by moxie

Carkner has fought Shawn Thornton 3 times so far this year, and Shawn is winning the series 1-0-2. Shawn also has basically the exact same card as Carkner, an even series with Orr, and a win against Brashear, (Although I saw it as no more than an edge) then a bunch of bottom-tier guys and middle weights. For this reason it is hard to justify putting Carkner so far ahead of Thornton in the top 10 without seeing at least a couple more of the big boys added to his card.

All 3 fights between the 2 have been really close though. And the thing that made it easy for me to place Carkner above Thornton is looking at the quality of their wins... Thornton got a draw with Orr and well... very marginally took a "win" on Brashear in an awful fight. Carkner dropped both of them!

And Thornton got dropped by a middleweight on the biggest stage in hockey, that alone should keep him out of most top 10s in my opinion.

[yeah]

Originally Posted by skacore

All 3 fights between the 2 have been really close though. And the thing that made it easy for me to place Carkner above Thornton is looking at the quality of their wins... Thornton got a draw with Orr and well... very marginally took a "win" on Brashear in an awful fight. Carkner dropped both of them!

Exactly. Thornton tied Orr, and giving him credit for "beating" Brashear is laughable. Carkner demolished Orr (after getting demolished in the first fight. That's what happens when two of the top heavies fight), and tagged Brashear, putting him out with a "nick" as Tortorella called it.

Then again, moxie may be trying to save face after calling Carkner a joke of an enforcer among other things at the beginning of the year. He's certainly a top 10, I could see him being anywhere from 4-7 or 8.

[caps87]

Originally Posted by Banky

Please stop putting Belak, Laraque, and Shelly in any top 10 lists.

Please stop putting Rypien and Crombeen in any top 10 lists.

[The Woodsman]

Originally Posted by yeah

Exactly. Thornton tied Orr, and giving him credit for "beating" Brashear is laughable. Carkner demolished Orr (after getting demolished in the first fight. That's what happens when two of the top heavies fight), and tagged Brashear, putting him out with a "nick" as Tortorella called it.

Then again, moxie may be trying to save face after calling Carkner a joke of an enforcer among other things at the beginning of the year. He's certainly a top 10, I could see him being anywhere from 4-7 or 8.

Blah blah blah. Carkner and Thornton have basically the exact same card and record against the exact same guys this year, and Thornton is winning their head to head series. Both guys are missing almost every key name this season, but Thornton has built up his card in years past. Until Carkner fights Godard, McGrattan, Boogaard, MacIntyre, Belak, etc, he doesn't really belong in the top 10 and has absolutely no business at all in the top 5.

[Boogeyman2383]

Originally Posted by brawls16

My Mid-season list would look like.....

As always, my list is a continued list, not just from this season.

1. Derek Boogaard
2. Brian McGrattan
3. Colton Orr
4. Wade Belak
5. Eric Godard
6. Donald Brashear
7. Matt Carkner
8. Jody Shelley
9. Shawn Thornton
10. Raitis Ivanans

The middleweights get my Honourable Mention: Cam Janssen, Jared Boll, Darcy Hordichuk and Rick Rypien! All beauties!

Steve MacIntyre would be Top10 if he knew how to play NHL caliber hockey. If he can stay up for a length of time, he's in my Top10.

Not Top10 at all!!
John Scott
Andrew Peters
Georges Parros
Riley Cote
Eric Boulton
David Koci
Georges Laraque

How does Jared Boll get an honorable mention, but not John Scott?

[yeah]

Originally Posted by moxie

Blah blah blah.

Sums up your posts nicely.

Originally Posted by moxie

Carkner and Thornton have basically the exact same card and record against the exact same guys this year, and Thornton is winning their head to head series. Both guys are missing almost every key name this season, but Thornton has built up his card in years past. Until Carkner fights Godard, McGrattan, Boogaard, MacIntyre, Belak, etc, he doesn't really belong in the top 10 and has absolutely no business at all in the top 5.

Again, like me and another poster said you're kidding yourself. Are you really saying Thornton's "wins" (he didn't even beat Orr, and the Brash fight was as big a farce as the first Brash-Carkner from a couple nights ago) are as impressive as Carkner's? Just eat crow man. Carkner has faced Orr and Brashear in 5 of his fights this year. He tried to fight Chara last time they played. He had no reason to fight Boogaard, and they don't play again this year so I guess you'll be holding that against him for a while. Ottawa plays Florida a couple more timesthis year, maybe Carkner will fight Mac if Mac actually plays, which he didn't in their first two meetings. It's not Carkner's fault MacIntyre resembles an ECHLer more than an NHLer. Godard declined Carkner once this year, and was a healthy scratch another time. Again, the Sens don't play the Preds again this year and Belak was a healthy scratch when they played earlier.

Hopefully he has a go with McGrattan, Godard and MacIntyre later, but even if he doesn't he's a 6-10 guy already based on his performance so far.

[Banky]

Originally Posted by caps87

Please stop putting Rypien and Crombeen in any top 10 lists.

Ok yes Crombeen was a joke... wow people took that serious

but as far as Rypien, he can stay.

[The Woodsman]

Originally Posted by yeah

Again, like me and another poster said you're kidding yourself. Are you really saying Thornton's "wins" (he didn't even beat Orr, and the Brash fight was as big a farce as the first Brash-Carkner from a couple nights ago) are as impressive as Carkner's? Just eat crow man. Carkner has faced Orr and Brashear in 5 of his fights this year. He tried to fight Chara last time they played. He had no reason to fight Boogaard, and they don't play again this year so I guess you'll be holding that against him for a while. Ottawa plays Florida a couple more timesthis year, maybe Carkner will fight Mac if Mac actually plays, which he didn't in their first two meetings. It's not Carkner's fault MacIntyre resembles an ECHLer more than an NHLer. Godard declined Carkner once this year, and was a healthy scratch another time. Again, the Sens don't play the Preds again this year and Belak was a healthy scratch when they played earlier.

Hopefully he has a go with McGrattan, Godard and MacIntyre later, but even if he doesn't he's a 6-10 guy already based on his performance so far.

You are new to this stuff, so I will let you in on a little secret... It doesn't matter if Carkner "tried to fight Chara." Chara is not a top 10 fighter, and never has been. Do you understand how rankings work, or the concept of the top 10 list? In order to displace a guy in the top 10, a guy who has earned his spot by fighting the right people and having the right record, you have to actually fight and beat those people. A guy does not make the top 10 list because some little twirp homer plugging away on his little macbook thought he might have tried to fight Chara, and because Godard was a healthy scratch when he faced the Penguins. That is not how it works, sorry.

[Nightshade88]

Originally Posted by Banky

but as far as Rypien, he can stay.

I hope thats a joke. I mean the guy lost to Prust AND Ben Eager. He has yet to even fight a decent heavyweight in his whole career. Heck at this point Dan Carcillo is ahead of Rypien in my list.

[yeah]

Originally Posted by moxie

You are new to this stuff, so I will let you in on a little secret... It doesn't matter if Carkner "tried to fight Chara." Chara is not a top 10 fighter, and never has been. Do you understand how rankings work, or the concept of the top 10 list? In order to displace a guy in the top 10, a guy who has earned his spot by fighting the right people and having the right record, you have to actually fight and beat those people. A guy does not make the top 10 list because some little twirp homer plugging away on his little macbook thought he might have tried to fight Chara, and because Godard was a healthy scratch when he faced the Penguins. That is not how it works, sorry.

Go back the past couple pages, and you'll see I'm not the only one with him on my list. It seems if anyone, you don't understand the concept. You took my Chara comment way too far, and ignored the rest of my post, but that's typical for you.

You were overly critical about Carkner, saying he should be sent to the minors and is an embarassment. We get it, you were wrong, no need to keep embarassing yourself.

[Knucklechucker]

Originally Posted by yeah

Go back the past couple pages, and you'll see I'm not the only one with him on my list. It seems if anyone, you don't understand the concept. You took my Chara comment way too far, and ignored the rest of my post, but that's typical for you.

You were overly critical about Carkner, saying he should be sent to the minors and is an embarassment. We get it, you were wrong, no need to keep embarassing yourself.