2012-13 Toughest Team Predictions?

[Boston Garden]

Originally Posted by fcm

IMO, whether your name is Zdeno Chara or Shawn Thornton, you must stand up for your teammates when they are victims of cheapshots.

I wouldn't mind losing Chara for 5 minutes if he wails on a guy that targetted one of my players' head.

The only thing I would not want Chara to do is staged fights. The role of fighting to spark your team and get your fans fired up belongs to the 4th line enforcer or the replaceable bottom-6 middleweight who sacrifices himself.

Other than that, Chara could drop the gloves with someone who slashed Tukka's glove and I would be very happy with that. Or if he lays a cheap hit then the guy wants him to respond. I'm fine with this.

Stand up for your teammates, respond for your cheap hits, I'll be happy. But let Thornton take care of the predictable HW right-off-the-get-go scrap.

This is the only point I'm trying to make. In heat of the moment situations "star player" ect. is out the window when a response is necessary.

Any staged fight from a "star" player is a bonus IMO.

[Jack Schitt]

How many fights did Orr win as a Bruin? He didn't become a force until he was gone, and why did they get rid of him??

We will have to disagree about Charo, but frankly I'm getting sick of beating that dead horse. I guess we will see what happens.

The point I'm making is that the big bad Bruins weren't so big and bad for quite a few years. You seem unable to grasp that reality.

[fcm]

Originally Posted by Whaler Fan

This is the only point I'm trying to make. In heat of the moment situations "star player" ect. is out the window when a response is necessary.

Any staged fight from a "star" player is a bonus IMO.

So is this the first point we agree on since one year?

Originally Posted by Fatt Patt

Well Montreal's Heavyweight was a colossal bust that really did nothing for them, and found himself often scratched or just flat out uninterested in doing his job (I'm referring to Laraque). Besides Laraque (which is a stretch with how he played with no balls) you have to go a long ways back without a HW for the Habs, not to mention a streak that is alive and well to this day.

Oh, really, Laraque was a heck of a bust with his 7-2-4 record (only clear loss to Mitch Fritz... who got his skull busted during the fight)

It was more about him having problems with his back because the mindset was set to carry a heavyweight in the line-up.

Before him, we had Aaron Downey. Huh, not the greatest enforcer, but what do you want. And we also had Sheldon Souray. It's a huge upgrade to LaCouture and Boynton, as far as I'm concerned.

And the year after, it was Jeremy Reich and Andrew Alberts who took care of the fighting for Boston. Wade Brookbank would have been a good HW for you, if you would have played him more than 7 games.

The Bruins didn't grow in a "tough" team until 2007-2008, really, when Peter Chiarelli became the GM and Lucic and Thornton became Bruins.

You have to keep in mind that the 2006-2008 NHL was probably even softer than the actual one. After the lock-out, the number of fights had a huge down.

The Habs have found a bunch of rugged middleweights actually. Now if only they could find a HW they would get rid of that "soft team" label.

[edwardraffoni]

Originally Posted by Jack Schitt

So what you are saying is that the leagues biggest player- who is touted by some to be the "champ" if he "wanted to" - is forced to be a spot picker by his coach and management? Fair enough, I agree that they probably don't want him to fight.... I wonder if they get angry when he fights a guy like Regehr, or just "legitimate tough guys"? At any rate, the only way he will get hurt is tweaking his back while going for the takedown anyway.

Get real, Jack. What he is saying that no team wants a player that is on the ice for near thirty minutes a game, wants him in the penalty box. Some guys in the league are just too valuable to spend time in the penalty box. The Bruins wouldn't want Chara fighting anybody, unless extreme circumstances dictated that he had no other choice but to go. As far as any legitimate hockey fight fan thinking he could be champ of the league, forget it. He's a big strong guy, but his fighting skills are about 7 out of 10.

[Jack Schitt]

Originally Posted by edwardraffoni

Get real, Jack. What he is saying that no team wants a player that is on the ice for near thirty minutes a game, wants him in the penalty box. Some guys in the league are just too valuable to spend time in the penalty box. The Bruins wouldn't want Chara fighting anybody, unless extreme circumstances dictated that he had no other choice but to go. As far as any legitimate hockey fight fan thinking he could be champ of the league, forget it. He's a big strong guy, but his fighting skills are about 7 out of 10.

I know what he's saying. I understand all that. Of course as a Bruins fan you have a different perspective than I would as far as this whole thing. You don't want him hurt or in the box, and well... That's a good thing for another Eastern div team. Don't get me wrong I don't wish an injury on him because truth is I respect him as a great player, but a bruised finger or something wouldn't make me sad!

As far as the "champ" thing, it's some of your fellow Bruins fans saying it, so it it what it is.

Chara a 7 out of 10? IMO that's being generous. His takedowns are 7/10 .... But his " fighting" is about 5/10.

You mentioned he "destroyed" perrenial fringe HW David Koci. I guess even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. The blood was what made that look more damaging than it was. I believe he was already cut and the stitches were reopened.

[Broons66]

Jack,i liked you better when you sported a B's avatar for a day. But seriously,Chara isnt a great fighter by any stretch;he uses his size and reach to manhandle his oppenants. Thats fine by me though,i dont really want to see Charo,a Norris Trophy winner,take on other teams heavyweights. Thorntons the fighter,if and when the time comes,he'll hook horns with Scott if need be. I expect the outcome to be similar to the Boogaard/Thornton fight of a few years ago.

[Jack Schitt]

Originally Posted by Broons66

Jack,i liked you better when you sported a B's avatar for a day. But seriously,Chara isnt a great fighter by any stretch;he uses his size and reach to manhandle his oppenants. Thats fine by me though,i dont really want to see Charo,a Norris Trophy winner,take on other teams heavyweights. Thorntons the fighter,if and when the time comes,he'll hook horns with Scott if need be. I expect the outcome to be similar to the Boogaard/Thornton fight of a few years ago.

I agree with all your points. I'd like to see Scott vs Chara because it would be a SHW battle that we don't see anymore, although it would probably be a crap fight!

One thing is for sure- bruin/Sabres games should be entertaining affairs this season. Scott, McCormick, Ott, Kaleta, Tarnasky, Weber, Pardy..... ThOrts,Chara, Looch, Mcquaid, Boychuk,Campbell and Horton(?)....

[Boston Garden]

Originally Posted by fcm

So is this the first point we agree on since one year?



Oh, really, Laraque was a heck of a bust with his 7-2-4 record (only clear loss to Mitch Fritz... who got his skull busted during the fight)

It was more about him having problems with his back because the mindset was set to carry a heavyweight in the line-up.

Before him, we had Aaron Downey. Huh, not the greatest enforcer, but what do you want. And we also had Sheldon Souray. It's a huge upgrade to LaCouture and Boynton, as far as I'm concerned.

And the year after, it was Jeremy Reich and Andrew Alberts who took care of the fighting for Boston. Wade Brookbank would have been a good HW for you, if you would have played him more than 7 games.

The Bruins didn't grow in a "tough" team until 2007-2008, really, when Peter Chiarelli became the GM and Lucic and Thornton became Bruins.

You have to keep in mind that the 2006-2008 NHL was probably even softer than the actual one. After the lock-out, the number of fights had a huge down.

The Habs have found a bunch of rugged middleweights actually. Now if only they could find a HW they would get rid of that "soft team" label.

Zoinks! You would think with that murderers row that Montreal employed that they would be bullying the Bruins up and down the ice!

But alas it was quite the opposite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwwck785BsQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNw8ZZT8tOU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_ouxSWVYbo

You were saying?

I could argue that this "cycle" is more a prolonged drought.

And make no mistake about it, the grinders the Habs acquired will make for useful punching bags for the Bruins.

[Broons66]

Originally Posted by Jack Schitt

I agree with all your points. I'd like to see Scott vs Chara because it would be a SHW battle that we don't see anymore, although it would probably be a crap fight!

One thing is for sure- bruin/Sabres games should be entertaining affairs this season. Scott, McCormick, Ott, Kaleta, Tarnasky, Weber, Pardy..... ThOrts,Chara, Looch, Mcquaid, Boychuk,Campbell and Horton(?)....

Granted Jack,a Scott/Chara tilt would be a SHW match,im sure Scott would get a game star for getting Chara off the ice for 5 minutes. I think it would be a crappy,predictable fight;Zdeno grabs on,throws two looping rights,falls to the ice. Yawn! The guy im worried about is Ott. Him and Kaleta on the same team? Holy fvckin' fireworks! B's/Sabes series will indeed be must watch hockey this year! And hey,you left out Lane MacDermid,im pretty sure he gets in 20-25 games this year,he nearly made the team out of camp last year!

[edwardraffoni]

Originally Posted by Jack Schitt

I know what he's saying. I understand all that. Of course as a Bruins fan you have a different perspective than I would as far as this whole thing. You don't want him hurt or in the box, and well... That's a good thing for another Eastern div team. Don't get me wrong I don't wish an injury on him because truth is I respect him as a great player, but a bruised finger or something wouldn't make me sad!

As far as the "champ" thing, it's some of your fellow Bruins fans saying it, so it it what it is.

Chara a 7 out of 10? IMO that's being generous. His takedowns are 7/10 .... But his " fighting" is about 5/10.

You mentioned he "destroyed" perrenial fringe HW David Koci. I guess even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. The blood was what made that look more damaging than it was. I believe he was already cut and the stitches were reopened.

Jack, you're aptly named. You stir alot of sheet around. I'm a Bruins fan , but I'm not a homer. No team wants to see a valuable defenseman off the ice with a fighting major. I could care less about other Bruins ' faNS SAYING HE COULD BE CHAMP. They're wrong. As far as Chara not being a 7 out of 10 as a fighter, I disagree. He did a number on Koci, plain and simple. He had the balls to go with Laraque and Brashear. He fell in both fights , fine. He had the balls and ability to go with both, something that 90 percent of the players in the league, at the time, wouldn't have the gonads to do. He's a big scary dude with some fighting ability. WE'VE BEAT THIS SUBJECT TO DEATH, SO LET ME SIGN OFF LETTING YOU KNOW YOU'VE STIRRED THE POT. You certainly gave yourself an appropriate name, because you certainly capable of stirring up alot of sheet.

[fcm]

Originally Posted by edwardraffoni

I think this is enough to make Smashem jealous.

[smashem]

Originally Posted by fcm

I think this is enough to make Smashem jealous.

Seeing i have been on about 3 or 4 times the past 2 weeks, I love how you have a crush on me. But that being said you are for certain that type of dude that would sniff a line of a dudes co_k

[fcm]

Originally Posted by Boston Garden

You were saying?

I could argue that this "cycle" is more a prolonged drought.

Ah. There is team filled with Langdons, Quintals and Sourays, but your homerism makes you pass over it and you go directly to the soft players. It's like saying the Bruins are soft because they have David Krejci or Greg Zanon on the team.

You need someone rational to get you back on the right track.

I know you are clueless (even for a Boston troll) to say the Habs have been soft for a decade. You know, even tough teams do not always retaliate after a dirty play (herE: McLaren's elbow to Zednik). Remember when Jody Shelley drilled Adam McQuaid from behind? Remember when Cooke layed Savard out? Despite that, the Bruins definitly are the toughest actual team in the league.

It's not like Ribeiro was faking an injury just because he was playing on the Habs. He did it plenty of times playing for the Stars and will probably do it again when playing for the Capitals. It's just like Brad Marchand: he isn't always diving just because he's a Bruin, he's diving because he's Brad Marchand.

And in the 3rd video, I see absolutly nothing convincing me that the Habs were a soft team even back then. To be honest with you, and you know I'm pretty far from wearing homer glasses (unlike you), I think the Habs have been tougher than the Bruins for a good amount of time until Peter Chiarelli came in for Boston. I'd like to get back a good decade in time and show you that the Habs haven't always the punching-bag team that they actually are.

I know what you are trying to say. Montreal has had a looong cycle of being soft because it is Montreal and Montreal = soft. That is your homer logic. The first season they really were was 2007-2008, but really, Gainey didn't want that to happen another time and brought back some tough guys for the time he was the GM.

2009-2010 -> Laraque, Moen, Chipchura, O'Byrne, White

2008-2009 -> Laraque, Stewart, Chipchura, Komisarek, Begin, Bouillon, TK)

2007-2008 -> (soft)

2006-2007 -> Downey, Souray, Murray, Rivet, Bouillon, Komisarek

2005-2006 -> Downey, Souray, Murray, Rivet, Begin, Bouillon, Komisarek, and so call-ups like Ivanans or Simpson, while Boston had a rookie Orr, LaCouture, Boynton and... Alberts?...)

2003-2004 -> Langdon, Quintal, Souray, Rivet, Komisarek, Begin, Bouillon

2002-2003 -> McKay, Blouin/Dwyer, Quintal, Souray, Rivet, Bouillon

2001-2002 -> Odjick, Simpson, Quintal, Souray, Rivet, Asham, Bouillon

So they have been soft for the 2010-2011, and 2011-2012 season. It's a two years long drought actually. It's just as long as the Bruins' when they had LaCouture and Boynton as designed enforcers. Even your friend Broons66 said it, the Bruins have had a painful era of softness a couple of years ago.

Originally Posted by Fat Patt

And make no mistake about it, the grinders the Habs acquired will make for useful punching bags for the Bruins.

If you think I consider Colby Armstrong one of the rugged middleweights we acquired, you are wrong. He's a punching bag.

Really the only one I could see use a Hab for a punching bag is Lucic since I know he likes to fight the Prusts of this league, or even the Armstrongs. Pretty sure even if Montreal played a guy like Godard he would go and use Prust as his punching bag.

But yeah, Thornton made a great use of Moen as his personnal punching bag last year. And McQuaid really manhandled Moen when they fought. Not mentioning how Boychuk absolutly pummeled White.

Seriously, I am looking forward to see a lot of good middleweight bouts between Prust, Moen, White, and McQuaid, Campbell and these guys.

The serious mismatch is all about Montreal not having opposition for Lucic or Thornton. They really are the only two guys that can do whatever they want. Chara too, but he would be stupid and does not do it often.

[fcm]

Originally Posted by smashem

Seeing i have been on about 3 or 4 times the past 2 weeks, I love how you have a crush on me. But that being said you are for certain that type of dude that would sniff a line of a dudes co_k

You forgot the smileys in this one.

[Boston Garden]

Originally Posted by Dumbass

Ah. There is team filled with Langdons, Quintals and Sourays, but your homerism makes you pass over it and you go directly to the soft players. It's like saying the Bruins are soft because they have David Krejci or Greg Zanon on the team.

You need someone rational to get you back on the right track.

I know you are clueless (even for a Boston troll) to say the Habs have been soft for a decade. You know, even tough teams do not always retaliate after a dirty play (herE: McLaren's elbow to Zednik). Remember when Jody Shelley drilled Adam McQuaid from behind? Remember when Cooke layed Savard out? Despite that, the Bruins definitly are the toughest actual team in the league.

It's not like Ribeiro was faking an injury just because he was playing on the Habs. He did it plenty of times playing for the Stars and will probably do it again when playing for the Capitals. It's just like Brad Marchand: he isn't always diving just because he's a Bruin, he's diving because he's Brad Marchand.

And in the 3rd video, I see absolutly nothing convincing me that the Habs were a soft team even back then. To be honest with you, and you know I'm pretty far from wearing homer glasses (unlike you), I think the Habs have been tougher than the Bruins for a good amount of time until Peter Chiarelli came in for Boston. I'd like to get back a good decade in time and show you that the Habs haven't always the punching-bag team that they actually are.

I know what you are trying to say. Montreal has had a looong cycle of being soft because it is Montreal and Montreal = soft. That is your homer logic. The first season they really were was 2007-2008, but really, Gainey didn't want that to happen another time and brought back some tough guys for the time he was the GM.

2009-2010 -> Laraque, Moen, Chipchura, O'Byrne, White

2008-2009 -> Laraque, Stewart, Chipchura, Komisarek, Begin, Bouillon, TK)

2007-2008 -> (soft)

2006-2007 -> Downey, Souray, Murray, Rivet, Bouillon, Komisarek

2005-2006 -> Downey, Souray, Murray, Rivet, Begin, Bouillon, Komisarek, and so call-ups like Ivanans or Simpson, while Boston had a rookie Orr, LaCouture, Boynton and... Alberts?...)

2003-2004 -> Langdon, Quintal, Souray, Rivet, Komisarek, Begin, Bouillon

2002-2003 -> McKay, Blouin/Dwyer, Quintal, Souray, Rivet, Bouillon

2001-2002 -> Odjick, Simpson, Quintal, Souray, Rivet, Asham, Bouillon

So they have been soft for the 2010-2011, and 2011-2012 season. It's a two years long drought actually. It's just as long as the Bruins' when they had LaCouture and Boynton as designed enforcers. Even your friend Broons66 said it, the Bruins have had a painful era of softness a couple of years ago.



If you think I consider Colby Armstrong one of the rugged middleweights we acquired, you are wrong. He's a punching bag.

Really the only one I could see use a Hab for a punching bag is Lucic since I know he likes to fight the Prusts of this league, or even the Armstrongs. Pretty sure even if Montreal played a guy like Godard he would go and use Prust as his punching bag.

But yeah, Thornton made a great use of Moen as his personnal punching bag last year. And McQuaid really manhandled Moen when they fought. Not mentioning how Boychuk absolutly pummeled White.

Seriously, I am looking forward to see a lot of good middleweight bouts between Prust, Moen, White, and McQuaid, Campbell and these guys.

The serious mismatch is all about Montreal not having opposition for Lucic or Thornton. They really are the only two guys that can do whatever they want. Chara too, but he would be stupid and does not do it often.

Unsurprisingly, you missed my point. I don't feel like writing a book back to you so I'll phrase this as simple as possible.

From 2001-2006 Did the Habs bully the Bruins?

From 2007-Present Have the Bruins bullied the Habs?

Actually don't answer those questions, as you will surely have a long winded roundabout way of answering them.

Anyways, for the upcoming season I'll go with Boston in the East and Chicago in the West.