2013 Pro Football Hall of Fame Finalists Announced

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Churla22

Okay, I think we all agree that Lombardi is the greatest head coach of the Super Bowl era, but who would round out your top 10?

I will throw out:

2 Belicheat
3 Shula
4 Gibbs
5 Walsh
6 Noll
7 Landry
8 Parcells
9 Johnson
10 Madden
HM Coughlin

All these guys inherited so so to sh*t except Madden and Belichick's Pats weren't bad but needed some finetuning. They had alot of good players when he took over in 2000 going 38-26 in the 4 seasons prior to his arrival.

Shula inherited a party team from George Wilson in Miami and in one year went from 3-10-1 to 10-4!
Now his Colts team was older in 1963 but still had alot of good players but was in transition from the Weeb Ewbanks 1958/59 title teams!

Gibbs Redskins weren't a disaster but in the three years prior to his hire Jack Pardee was 24-24!

Walsh inherited sh*t!
Noll inherited sh*t!

Landry started the franchise and was fortunate that he was given 6 seasons before he finally won in 1966!

Parcells inherited a franchise that was cleaning up 15 years of disaster football! Young and Perkins got the process started and in 1981/82 went 13-12 with the 1982 strike year but after Parcells first year of 3-12-1 as he cleaned house, he was 82-37 counting the playoffs with two SB titles! I don't count the three bullsh*t losses with replacement players in 1987! F-That!

Johnson inherited a 3 win team and won 1 game in his first year!

Coughlin inherited a 4 win team with the Giants after starting the Jacksonville franchise!

[JetWing34]

I thought Coughlin began his NFL head coaching career with four wins with the Jaguars, and started his Giants tenure winning six. He is a very good coach with Eli Manning taking snaps as a starter.

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by JetWing34

I thought Coughlin began his NFL head coaching career with four wins with the Jaguars, and started his Giants tenure winning six. He is a very good coach with Eli Manning taking snaps as a starter.

Yeah he started and was the first ever coach with Jacksonville as I wrote and inherited a 4 win team from Jim Fassel with the Giants and improved it to 6. They were 5-2, lost 2 to fall to 5-4 and Coughlin decided to bench Kurt Warner and turn the keys over to Manning who lost his first 6 starts and beat Dallas to end the 2004 season!
Warner was 5-4 and Manning was 1-6 in 2004.
That is Coughlin's only losing season with the Giants in 9 years! Since then he has won 11,8,10,12,8,10,9,9 for 77 wins and is 8-3 in the playoffs.
Overall Coughlin is 91-64 as the Giants coach with 2 SB titles!
83-61 in the regular season and 8-3 in the playoffs!
His first halves are Lombardi like winning 53 and losing only 19. His second halves suck winning 30 and losing 42. It is a mystery why the Giants win 74% of their games in the first half and only 42% in the second half. That would be the one huge knock on Coughlin along with never building strong defenses! Coughlin is a great offensive coach as the Giants have scored over 400 points 4 times in his 9 years and 394 or more points 6 times in his 9 years and have scored at least 355 points in 8 of the 9 years under Coughlin! The last 5 years the Giants have never scored under 394 points!
The problem is the defense that has only allowed under 300 points once in 2008 and that team won 12 games!
Who knew that we had Air Coughlin playing in the cold in windy NJ and the Meadowlands!

[BobNystromOwnsU]

Originally Posted by Churla22

Okay, I think we all agree that Lombardi is the greatest head coach of the Super Bowl era, but who would round out your top 10?

I will throw out:

2 Belicheat
3 Shula
4 Gibbs
5 Walsh
6 Noll
7 Landry
8 Parcells
9 Johnson
10 Madden
HM Coughlin

I put Landry way higher. Dude invented the 3rd down back, shotgun formation and the 4 - 3.

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by BobNystromOwnsU

I put Landry way higher. Dude invented the 3rd down back, shotgun formation and the 4 - 3.

Red Hickey actually developed the shotgun formation in 1960 with the 49ers. It worked for a few games with John Brodie and Billy Kilmer using a pass/run option and then teams caught on and began to blitz the sh*t out of them and they abandoned the formation.
Landry started using the shotgun in Dallas in 1975 with Staubach as strickly a passing formation! He did it because his team was young and inexperienced and he wanted to give Staubach time to pass on 3rd down.
I recently watched a 28 minute clip of the 1956 NFL championship game between the Giants and Bears where the Giants killed the Bears 47-7 at Yankee Stadium on You Tube and saw something very interesting.
The Bears QB's Ed Brown and George Blanda were being rushed hard and sacked all first half and in the second half went to a Punt Formation and passed out of it. The great Chris Schenkel called it a punt formation but it was like the shotgun.

I'll see if that clip is still posted on You Tube!

Here it is:

1956 NFL Championship - YouTube

Ok around the 18 minute mark of the clip you first see Ed Brown in punt formation passing to get more time to throw. The Bears were trailing 34-7 at the time early in the 3rd quarter! When I watched this last month I was thinking hey that is like the shotgun!

Regarding 3rd down and throwing to a running back for first downs, Lenny Dawson used to throw to Mike Garrett and the Giants Fran Tarkenton regularly threw to Ron Johnson and Tucker Fredrickson in 1970 and 1971 before they were injured on 3rd down to make first downs. Later Tarkenton used to throw to Chuck Foreman alot on 3rd down.
Dawson and Tarkenton liked using the backs as receivers in short passing formations!
In 1975, Preston Pearson was picked up by Landry and he had good hands and was used on 3rd down to catch passes but he wasn't the first team using the backs to catch passes to move the chains! Pearson rushed for over 500 yards that year and only caught 27 passes so he wasn't just a receiver and was used like Garrett, Johnson, Fredrickson had been used earlier by the Chiefs and Giants!
People assume that Preston Pearson did nothing but catch passes and nothing could be further from the truth. He rushed for almost 1,100 yards in Dallas in 1975-77 and over 100 yards in 1978.

[Churla22]

Originally Posted by BobNystromOwnsU

I put Landry way higher. Dude invented the 3rd down back, shotgun formation and the 4 - 3.

This is an unbelievably tightly packed grouping. I wouldn't argue with moving him higher. Where do you have him?

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Churla22

This is an unbelievably tightly packed grouping. I wouldn't argue with moving him higher. Where do you have him?

I'm shocked how so few mention George Halas and without him there would be no NFL, he won well over 300 games with a great winning percentage, and started the T-Formation that started Pro Football throwing the ball and acting like the modern NFL and not 3 yards and a cloud of dust!
Hell he went from Red Grange and Bronko Nagurski to Bill George and Doug Atkins to Dick Butkus and Gale Sayers and still owned the team with Walter Payton and Dan Hampton!
That was remarkable!
I remember a clip of him showing Sayers in 1965 how to hold the ball so he wouldn't fumble and he say's I showed this technique to so and so in like 1935 and the guy stopped fumbling!

[Churla22]

Originally Posted by bigjack

I'm shocked how so few mention George Halas and without him there would be no NFL

Probably because the parameters were "Super Bowl era".

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Churla22

Probably because the parameters were "Super Bowl era".

You too can fuc* up! Whoops! I stand corrected! Wow! How about what the kids say-MY BAD!



Thanks for your kindness! You could of easily wrote because it's the SB Era moron!

[BobNystromOwnsU]

Originally Posted by Churla22

This is an unbelievably tightly packed grouping. I wouldn't argue with moving him higher. Where do you have him?

I think of the NFL in two sections. Before and after 1960. After 1960, i would argue he is the most important figure in the NFL. Along with Pete Rozelle, Al Davis and Lamar Hunt.

As far as just coaches, he is easily number 1 for me since 1960, and it's not even close. Just my opinion. Remember, he invented a lot of **** after a lot of **** was already invented.

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by BobNystromOwnsU

I think of the NFL in two sections. Before and after 1960. After 1960, i would argue he is the most important figure in the NFL. Along with Pete Rozelle, Al Davis and Lamar Hunt.

As far as just coaches, he is easily number 1 for me since 1960, and it's not even close. Just my opinion. Remember, he invented a lot of **** after a lot of **** was already invented.

Don't forget if it wasn't for Jack and Wellington Mara and their willingness to share the revenues for the good of the tiny markets like Green Bay, there would be no Green Bay today! The Mara's could of been pigs like Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder are but they said we have to share revenue for the good of the NFL!

A small Bio on Mara:


"Wellington Mara of the New York Giants was one of the NFL's most influential owners for more than a half century and was the last of the league's founding generation.

"Wellington Mara is the face of not only the New York Giants but the NFL," said Giants tight end Jeremy Shockey. "He's a pioneer and the guy that everybody looks up to."

Mara's influence went far beyond the Giants. He clearly was one of the most important figures in NFL history.

Perhaps his greatest contribution came in the early 1960's. He and brother Jack, owners of the biggest team in the biggest market, agreed to share tele-vision revenue on a league wide basis, dividing the huge amounts of money available in cities like New York with smaller markets from Pittsburgh to Green Bay.

Part of that agreement meant that the Giants ceded the right to sell their own games to television for a league wide contract, in those days with CBS. That concept of revenue sharing allowed the NFL to thrive and remains in place today.

He also served during the 1970's as chairman of the NFL's Management Council, which negotiated labor contracts, and as a member of the competition committee.

"When Well Mara stood to speak at a league meeting, the room would become silent with anticipation because all of us knew we were going to hear profound insights born of eight decades of league experience," NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue said.

Mara became a Giants' ballboy at age 9 in October 1925 after his father, Timothy). Mara, bought the team. He stayed fully involved in its operation for almost 80 years, except for three years while in the Navy during World war II. Until he became ill last spring, he attended most practices and every game.

In 1930, at 14, his father made him co-owner with older brother Jack, and he ran the club until several years ago, when son John took over day-to-day operations."

[BobNystromOwnsU]

Whatever you say there, BigJack.

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by BobNystromOwnsU

Whatever you say there, BigJack.

9 days later and that is your big response? Took you that long to come up with that brain fart!

There would be no Pittsburgh or Green Bay without sharing of TV Revenues and that was the Mara Brothers who did that!
If you don't know that and how important that it was to saving the small market teams, what can I say!