Mets Trade Dickey to Blue Jays

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by chilly666

the way i see it is that he knew he sucked and would go nowhere so he tried to learn the junkball...most other pitchers who suck, don't give up on what they think they can throw and have thrown for their whole lives.

this is not gonna help the jays compared to the move they made earlier this offseason. they have plenty of good/better than average starters that they don't need him.

Nothing like sticking with a losing formula. Maybe Dickey could lend them stubborn pitchers some cash when he signs an extension.

[Phila26Flyers]

Originally Posted by Merlin401

I agree with the rebuild in general. If Dickey said this off-season that he wanted to test free agency after 2013 or if he was demanding some outrageous 3 year extension, I'd have no problem with trading. I'd still be sad to see him go and wish him all the best, but I'd understand. But he was so loved, he wanted to stay, and was willing to take below-market value to stay. That's a real shame to see the Mets f*ck up such a feel good story.

When D'Arnaud is swatting .300 and 20 home runs behind the plate, you remember Gio Gonzalez as the Cy Young winner this year.

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by Phila26Flyers

There is some truth in his post though, regardless of ERA. Dickey is a one-trick pony. If he loses his edge for a couple starts, he has no contingency plan. If Hamels' changeup isn't working for him one game, he adjusts location of his fastball or goes to his curveball more. What can Dickey do when his knuckler just isn't working right? That's why the Jays lose this deal: they are banking on Dickey to go out and preform his only trick well. Maybe being in the AL where hitters haven't seem him will work in his favor. But since he wanted $13 million(?) to preform one trick that he has no backup for, in my opinion the Mets are better suited to trade him for the players they are rumored to be getting.

Gose and D'Arnaud were both ranked high in the Phillies system before they went to Toronto for Roy Halladay. I hope that remains their biggest claim to fame if they end up on the Mets, but objectively, the Mets got two young players with a ton of potential. D'Arnaud, at 23, is putting up great numbers in the minors, especially for a catcher. He is a franchise catcher if he pans out as expected. Gose is younger and his numbers are more modest, but he is only 22, so he has time to develop. The Mets will probably play him in the OF at some point this season to see what they have to work with. That's what I think in a nutshell, but if just one player pans out as expected (esp. D'Arnaud), you won't even remember Dickey's name.

At one point last year Dickey said if his knuckle ball wasn't working he would try and use his other stuff. The Mets manager didn't like the sounds of that and said as much so you have a point. Still, it has worked well three years in a row now so there is no reason to believe he will lose it all of the sudden and he does have different variations of his knuckle ball thrown with different speeds that have different movement.

[chilly666]

whether the speeds are different or the "movement" is different, its still a knuckleball...if he doesn't have it going, a fastball or curve is easy to track considering how slow he throws them.

[Phila26Flyers]

Originally Posted by pesadillamal

At one point last year Dickey said if his knuckle ball wasn't working he would try and use his other stuff. The Mets manager didn't like the sounds of that and said as much so you have a point. Still, it has worked well three years in a row now so there is no reason to believe he will lose it all of the sudden and he does have different variations of his knuckle ball thrown with different speeds that have different movement.

This is true, and knucklers have longevity in their arms. How long did Tim Wakefield pitch, until he was 44? But the last six years he was terrible. Again, it's only my opinion, but I think the Mets have a lot more to gain by trading him than if they keep him for a few more years. I'm not saying Dickey is going to put up bad numbers, just that no matter what he puts up (aside from an unlikely second CY), it won't match the potential tradeoff they're getting from Toronto.

[Boston Garden]

Seems like a great trade for the Blue Jays.

Now is the Jays time to make a run, the Red Sox are in a state of flux for the next 2-3 years waiting for their new crop of talent to make it to the bigs. Meanwhile, the Yankees are getting older and on the decline and trying to cut payroll. It's not often that both the Sox and Yanks are on the decline, so if you're a team like Toronto this is your time to pounce and make a move.

I think Baltimore was pretty fluky last year, the Rays are legit however I question if the have the offense to hack it.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but when the HW's of the division are in a transition phase and you're trying to gain respect amongst your fans and the league you need to go for it IMO. Good for the Jays to try and win now rather than middling in the pack of the the AL East.

Morrow
Johnson
Dickey
Buehrle
Romero/Happ

That's very impressive, Take the sure thing and win now.

Just my 2 cents.

[ewen21]

Originally Posted by pesadillamal

I was just thinking about his home games and I have no idea Belak. Does Toronto get over 90 degrees with very high humidity consistently?

I think you are overstating it a bit. It might have touched 90 about 12 or 15 times last year, but that was during the day anyway. Heck, it might even be hotter on the field in Toronto because of the astroturf

[I_am_Belak_2]

The latest.. Arencibia and Gose are not involved anymore.

Joel Sherman (@Joelsherman1) tweeted at 9:40 PM on Sat, Dec 15, 2012:
But right now it's Dickey/Thole/prospect (told not elite) for d/Arnaud/Syndegaard/Buck/prospect (told not elite) #Mets #Bluejays
(https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/sta...40279233789952)

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by ewen21

I think you are overstating it a bit. It might have touched 90 about 12 or 15 times last year, but that was during the day anyway. Heck, it might even be hotter on the field in Toronto because of the astroturf

I think we had 18 days over 90 in July alone but you are right because that was a record breaking year for the northeast so it usually isn't that bad. I heard the humidity helped Dickey 's knuckle ball and that we always have it seems. Still, I don't think it should be much of an issue. It was just a random thought that was probably wrong.

[Merlin401]

Originally Posted by chilly666

whether the speeds are different or the "movement" is different, its still a knuckleball...if he doesn't have it going, a fastball or curve is easy to track considering how slow he throws them.

I don't really understand the whole "one trick" argument. What is going to cause him to "lose it"? Sure there may be a day where something isn't working because of weather or whatever, but its not like he is going to wake up one day and have forgotten how to throw a knuckleball. Or he's not going to wake up one day to find the laws of physics have changed on him and his trick no longer works. One or two off days aside, when a pitcher wakes up and finds that he now sucks, its usually because of a major velocity decline. And that's the one problem that Dickey doesn't have to worry about!

[BROKEN*ORBITAL]

Originally Posted by Merlin401

I don't really understand the whole "one trick" argument. What is going to cause him to "lose it"? Sure there may be a day where something isn't working because of weather or whatever, but its not like he is going to wake up one day and have forgotten how to throw a knuckleball. Or he's not going to wake up one day to find the laws of physics have changed on him and his trick no longer works. One or two off days aside, when a pitcher wakes up and finds that he now sucks, its usually because of a major velocity decline. And that's the one problem that Dickey doesn't have to worry about!

Have you read any of chilly's posts in this thread? Even though your logic is sound, and history based, he'll still come back with something completely ridiculous. In fact here's the basis of his argument against this trade from 3 seperate posts in this thread.

Originally Posted by chilly666

if

Originally Posted by chilly666

if

Originally Posted by chilly666

if

Some pretty compelling facts he's produced there.

[theknuckler]

Dickeys hitting prime knuckleball age. Has an 85MPH fastball, and mixes speeds well. He's been solid for 3 years in a row, after starting in 2005 learning how to pitch. Ill be at a lot more jays games

[I_am_Belak_2]

The trade is complete, as long as Dickey agrees to an extension by Tuesday at 7pm.

[chilly666]

Originally Posted by Merlin401

I don't really understand the whole "one trick" argument. What is going to cause him to "lose it"? Sure there may be a day where something isn't working because of weather or whatever, but its not like he is going to wake up one day and have forgotten how to throw a knuckleball. Or he's not going to wake up one day to find the laws of physics have changed on him and his trick no longer works. One or two off days aside, when a pitcher wakes up and finds that he now sucks, its usually because of a major velocity decline. And that's the one problem that Dickey doesn't have to worry about!

not talking about forgetting how to throw it. im talking about losing the confidence in it if it doesn't "dance" or gets hit for a few starts in a row. if he loses confidence in the knuckleball, it makes it very easy for hitters to key in a "fastball" or curveball because the hitter can see it won't be in as much of a danger of being called a strike possibly.

[BROKEN*ORBITAL]

Originally Posted by chilly666

not talking about forgetting how to throw it. im talking about losing the confidence in it if it doesn't "dance" or gets hit for a few starts in a row. if he loses confidence in the knuckleball, it makes it very easy for hitters to key in a "fastball" or curveball because the hitter can see it won't be in as much of a danger of being called a strike possibly.

More compelling arguments.