Mets Trade Dickey to Blue Jays

[chilly666]

Originally Posted by pesadillamal

I actually agree with you but that is why I think the trade could help both teams. With the moves the Jays have made it seems obvious they are going for it now, while the Mets are trying to build a strong core of young players to be contenders in the future.

i get the mets part, but the jays don't need dickey...they already have 7 starters as it is so idk if that's really helping them out.

plus the money they would give dickey could be used to attempt to keep josh johnson around past this season instead of a grandpa (by baseball standards) whose has one great season and a ****load of mediocre ones including most being in the minors

[I_am_Belak_2]

Originally Posted by pesadillamal

I was just thinking about his home games and I have no idea Belak. Does Toronto get over 90 degrees with very high humidity consistently?

Yes, this past summer was terrible. But then again, he'd be playing in a retractable dome.

And yes, it's being reported that it's D'Arnaud and Gose going to the Mets, pending physicals. Now THIS I am upset about. I was really looking forward to seeing D'Arnaud in a Jays sweater, which is why I saw Arencibia as expendable, even though I do like him too. But I liked D'Arnaud more.

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by chilly666

i get the mets part, but the jays don't need dickey...they already have 7 starters as it is so idk if that's really helping them out.

plus the money they would give dickey could be used to attempt to keep josh johnson around past this season instead of a grandpa (by baseball standards) whose has one great season and a ****load of mediocre ones including most being in the minors

I hear you. I was actually hoping they would deal him for some good players because it is not like the Mets are going to contend this year with him but I also hope he continues to pitch well and help whoever gets him. It could work out for the Jays but they better win within a couple years or this trade will come back to haunt them like you and Phila said.

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by I_am_Belak_2

Yes, this past summer was terrible. But then again, he'd be playing in a retractable dome.

And yes, it's being reported that it's D'Arnaud and Gose going to the Mets, pending physicals. Now THIS I am upset about. I was really looking forward to seeing D'Arnaud in a Jays sweater, which is why I saw Arencibia as expendable, even though I do like him too. But I liked D'Arnaud more.

I just assumed Toronto had nicer summers than we do down here so that was dumb of me.

[Merlin401]

Originally Posted by pesadillamal

Dickey's ERA the last 3 years -
2012 - 2.73
2011 - 3.28
2010 - 2.84

Yes, saying Dickey's season was a flash in the pan is very wrong. He's been incredible the last three years, its just that this year he got enough run support to get the wins and full recognition. He's simply a good pitcher and due to his delivery, a lot younger in baseball years than real years.

I think the Mets are a bit foolish to trade him. The Mets have bungled everything it seems the last few years, especially at the MLB level. I feel like it would be good financially for them to keep Dickey around due to good will with the fans. I loved going to Dickey starts. He was asking for 2 years/$26 M, right? Thats a bargain for his stats and left room for the contract extension being profitable even if he regressed. Count in how much of a draw the beloved Cy Young winner would be each start and I think he should have been kept.

[BROKEN*ORBITAL]

Originally Posted by chilly666

i get the mets part, but the jays don't need dickey...they already have 7 starters as it is so idk if that's really helping them out.

plus the money they would give dickey could be used to attempt to keep josh johnson around past this season instead of a grandpa (by baseball standards) whose has one great season and a ****load of mediocre ones including most being in the minors

That's hilarious. They Jays already have "7" starters, so they don't need last years NL CY Young award winner. Nah. We're good.

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by Merlin401

Yes, saying Dickey's season was a flash in the pan is very wrong. He's been incredible the last three years, its just that this year he got enough run support to get the wins and full recognition. He's simply a good pitcher and due to his delivery, a lot younger in baseball years than real years.

I think the Mets are a bit foolish to trade him. The Mets have bungled everything it seems the last few years, especially at the MLB level. I feel like it would be good financially for them to keep Dickey around due to good will with the fans. I loved going to Dickey starts. He was asking for 2 years/$26 M, right? Thats a bargain for his stats and left room for the contract extension being profitable even if he regressed. Count in how much of a draw the beloved Cy Young winner would be each start and I think he should have been kept.

Great points. I am so torn right now because what you are saying is true but I also feel Alderson is building something that could become special in few tears. I keep going back and forth about it because one minute I feel they need to build for the future and the next I feel they could have been in the playoff hunt last year if they just had a bullpen. All those games they blew in late innings just wore down the team and it seems they have not done anything to help that. At least it seems they have a plan which is a welcome change so I will continue to hope that this trade will help both teams if completed.

[chilly666]

Originally Posted by BROKEN*ORBITAL

That's hilarious. They Jays already have "7" starters, so they don't need last years NL CY Young award winner. Nah. We're good.

the only reason you and other blue jays fans think this is a good move (if it happens) is because he won the cy young last year...would you and other jays fans would have wanted him if he didn't win it or two years ago? i doubt it which makes this just another blue jays move grasping for hope.

the jays made a big upgrade with the trade for johnson, buehrle and others, but this is dumb. a 38 yr old whose had one great season after years of sucking and now they're gonna overpay for him to throw a junkball which is the only reason he is in the majors, because he couldn't cut it as a real pitcher the prior 10 years.

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by chilly666

the only reason you and other blue jays fans think this is a good move (if it happens) is because he won the cy young last year...would you and other jays fans would have wanted him if he didn't win it or two years ago? i doubt it which makes this just another blue jays move grasping for hope.

the jays made a big upgrade with the trade for johnson, buehrle and others, but this is dumb. a 38 yr old whose had one great season after years of sucking and now they're gonna overpay for him to throw a junkball which is the only reason he is in the majors, because he couldn't cut it as a real pitcher the prior 10 years.

He has not sucked for the last three years. Why ignore the ERA's I posted and continue to say that?

[pesadillamal]

The last three years he has the 2nd, 13th, and 7th best ERA in the NL Chilly. He did not have just one good year. You could make a point that this may be a bad trade for the Jays but saying Dickey has had one good year is not the way to do it.

[chilly666]

that's 3 out of 15 years and it's only because of the junkball...if he was still trying to be a real pitcher, he'd be home or else tooling around in the minors.

if some pitcher has to change to a junkball, he's not good and is only winning by tricking hitters with a pitch that takes no effort or skill to throw. that's not a pitcher imo.

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by chilly666

that's 3 out of 15 years and it's only because of the junkball...if he was still trying to be a real pitcher, he'd be home or else tooling around in the minors.

if some pitcher has to change to a junkball, he's not good and is only winning by tricking hitters with a pitch that takes no effort or skill to throw. that's not a pitcher imo.

I think the Jays are trading for his results though. The 3 years out of 15 are his last 3 years so I think they hold more weight. I also think more pitchers would throw the pitch if it took no skill to throw it.

[chilly666]

the way i see it is that he knew he sucked and would go nowhere so he tried to learn the junkball...most other pitchers who suck, don't give up on what they think they can throw and have thrown for their whole lives.

this is not gonna help the jays compared to the move they made earlier this offseason. they have plenty of good/better than average starters that they don't need him.

[Merlin401]

Originally Posted by pesadillamal

Great points. I am so torn right now because what you are saying is true but I also feel Alderson is building something that could become special in few tears. I keep going back and forth about it because one minute I feel they need to build for the future and the next I feel they could have been in the playoff hunt last year if they just had a bullpen. All those games they blew in late innings just wore down the team and it seems they have not done anything to help that. At least it seems they have a plan which is a welcome change so I will continue to hope that this trade will help both teams if completed.

I agree with the rebuild in general. If Dickey said this off-season that he wanted to test free agency after 2013 or if he was demanding some outrageous 3 year extension, I'd have no problem with trading. I'd still be sad to see him go and wish him all the best, but I'd understand. But he was so loved, he wanted to stay, and was willing to take below-market value to stay. That's a real shame to see the Mets f*ck up such a feel good story.

[Phila26Flyers]

Originally Posted by pesadillamal

The last three years he has the 2nd, 13th, and 7th best ERA in the NL Chilly. He did not have just one good year. You could make a point that this may be a bad trade for the Jays but saying Dickey has had one good year is not the way to do it.

There is some truth in his post though, regardless of ERA. Dickey is a one-trick pony. If he loses his edge for a couple starts, he has no contingency plan. If Hamels' changeup isn't working for him one game, he adjusts location of his fastball or goes to his curveball more. What can Dickey do when his knuckler just isn't working right? That's why the Jays lose this deal: they are banking on Dickey to go out and preform his only trick well. Maybe being in the AL where hitters haven't seem him will work in his favor. But since he wanted $13 million(?) to preform one trick that he has no backup for, in my opinion the Mets are better suited to trade him for the players they are rumored to be getting.

Gose and D'Arnaud were both ranked high in the Phillies system before they went to Toronto for Roy Halladay. I hope that remains their biggest claim to fame if they end up on the Mets, but objectively, the Mets got two young players with a ton of potential. D'Arnaud, at 23, is putting up great numbers in the minors, especially for a catcher. He is a franchise catcher if he pans out as expected. Gose is younger and his numbers are more modest, but he is only 22, so he has time to develop. The Mets will probably play him in the OF at some point this season to see what they have to work with. That's what I think in a nutshell, but if just one player pans out as expected (esp. D'Arnaud), you won't even remember Dickey's name.