2013 MLB HoF Ballot

[Churla22]

Originally Posted by bigjack

How is Willie Stargell in and Fred McGriff not if you strickly look at numbers?

Just curious, what numbers are you looking at?

[CubsJunkie]

Originally Posted by bigjack

Go look at Gehrig's numbers compared with this list and then come talk to me. Your comment is ridiculous!
If you like a .281 hitter with 17 homers and 67 ribbies and think he is great so be it! I don't and to me the HOF means great, not good to very good and lets be good and play for 20 years!

Originally Posted by bigjack

Biggio played catcher, 2nd and center field but was mainly a middle infielder like I wrote along with most of the others on that list! I wrote being a middle infielder helps their vote so again I have no clue what you are writing.

Now for a great laugh:

Gehrig averaged .340 with 37 homers, 149 ribbies, 40 doubles, 12 triples, 141 runs scored, and 204 hits!

Biggio averaged .281 with 17 homers, 67 ribbies, 38 doubles, 3 triples, 104 runs scored, and 174 hits!

Yeah I can really see the comparison!

Unreal!

All I read about is how Biggio was a run scorer and then we see Gehrig average 141 runs scored to Biggio's 104 runs scored nevermind all the power and production!
Christ even in triples, Biggio sucks compared with Gehrig averaging three triples to Gehrig's 12 triples!

Stop with your nonsense already!

LOU GEHRIG!

UNREAL!

C'mon jack, I never compared Biggio to Gehrig. I'm simply trying to figure out what you mean by "compilers" and I referenced that Gehrig played in over 2,000 games like Biggio; that's the only comparison Biggio and Gehrig have because everyone knows that Lou is in a class of his own.

Yes, Biggio was a middle infielder and he has comparable stats to other HOF middle infielders so I don't see what point you're trying to make if being a middle infielder "helps their vote" like you say it does. Biggio won 4 gold gloves, 4 silver sluggers, and a career fielding % of .984 at 2nd base.

In our previous conversation, you pointed out that Molitor, Alomar, and Brett were all great hitters. Let's compare AVG/OBP/SLG

Biggio: .281/.363/.433
Molitor: .306/.369/.448
Alomar: .300/.371/.443
Brett: .305/.369/.487

Those are pretty similar except for Brett's SLG and the averages.

[Churla22]

Originally Posted by CubsJunkie

C'mon jack, I never compared Biggio to Gehrig. I'm simply trying to figure out what you mean by "compilers" and I referenced that Gehrig played in over 2,000 games like Biggio; that's the only comparison Biggio and Gehrig have because everyone knows that Lou is in a class of his own.

Yes, Biggio was a middle infielder and he has comparable stats to other HOF middle infielders so I don't see what point you're trying to make if being a middle infielder "helps their vote" like you say it does. Biggio won 4 gold gloves, 4 silver sluggers, and a career fielding % of .984 at 2nd base.

In our previous conversation, you pointed out that Molitor, Alomar, and Brett were all great hitters. Let's compare AVG/OBP/SLG

Biggio: .281/.363/.433
Molitor: .306/.369/.448
Alomar: .300/.371/.443
Brett: .305/.369/.487

Those are pretty similar except for Brett's SLG and the averages.

CJ, you might want to save your breath here - I'm pretty positive that bigjack has NEVER responded to ANY of my points, and you've seen his argument style - completely disregard what anyone else says and espouse nonsense....

[bigjack]

SS and Wins above replacement:

Joe Tinker was the best until Belanger came along!

Next
Mark Belanger

Ozzie Smith

Not Maranville!

Ozzie is the man for SS ratings and WAR!

Now we lost a true HOF player yesterday who retired at .331 with 475 homers, 725 doubles, 177 triples, and almost 2,000 ribbies!
That is GREAT, not a .285 hitter!

Stan the Man up to 1958 averaged 26 homers, 41 doubles, 11 triples, 105 ribbies and hit .340!
That is GREAT, not this compiled bullsh*t and a hitter in the .280's as an outfielder!

Roberto Clemente was funny in that it took him five years to learn to hit and begin to hit with power but from 1960 until 1972 when he was killed he was some hitter:

In the pitching 1960's:

.330 hitter
209 hits
102 runs scored
19 homers
96 ribbies
30 doubles
11 triples

He hit .317 lifetime but from 1960 to his last year at age 38 was a .330 hitter in a pitchers league!
He wasn't a .285 hitter like the compiler that Churla loves so much who had 3 40 homer, 100 ribbie years that totally inflated his numbers that in reality was 16 homers, 72 ribbies, .285 hitter!

He loves those good compilers and I love GREATNESS!

[cookie monster]

Originally Posted by Churla22

CJ, you might want to save your breath here - I'm pretty positive that bigjack has NEVER responded to ANY of my points, and you've seen his argument style - completely disregard what anyone else says and espouse nonsense....

So it's not just the politics threads....Lol.

[Churla22]

Originally Posted by bigjack

SS and Wins above replacement:

Joe Tinker was the best until Belanger came along!

Next
Mark Belanger

Ozzie Smith

Not Maranville!

Ozzie is the man for SS ratings and WAR!

Now we lost a true HOF player yesterday who retired at .331 with 475 homers, 725 doubles, 177 triples, and almost 2,000 ribbies!
That is GREAT, not a .285 hitter!

Stan the Man up to 1958 averaged 26 homers, 41 doubles, 11 triples, 105 ribbies and hit .340!
That is GREAT, not this compiled bullsh*t and a hitter in the .280's as an outfielder!

Roberto Clemente was funny in that it took him five years to learn to hit and begin to hit with power but from 1960 until 1972 when he was killed he was some hitter:

In the pitching 1960's:

.330 hitter
209 hits
102 runs scored
19 homers
96 ribbies
30 doubles
11 triples

He hit .317 lifetime but from 1960 to his last year at age 38 was a .330 hitter in a pitchers league!
He wasn't a .285 hitter like the compiler that Churla loves so much who had 3 40 homer, 100 ribbie years that totally inflated his numbers that in reality was 16 homers, 72 ribbies, .285 hitter!

He loves those good compilers and I love GREATNESS!

The POINT is that Maranville was considered the Ozzie of his era. We all know that the defensive metrics were not nearly as advanced in Rabbit's era as they are today. Thus we rely on more anecdotal evidence, all of which supports the idea that Maranville was an all-time great defensive shortstop which is, apparently, why he was enshrined. Does that answer your question?

You are still the only person I've ever talked to that doesn't see Yaz as not just a Hall of Famer, but an EASY Hall of Famer. And again with the utter drivel of, "if you take out his best seasons, he is not a Hall of Famer". In what reality does that make ANY sense?

You're just not a big baseball guy and I get that, but wow, your inability to use simple logic in support of your arguments is astounding. When I have a chance I will find the Yaz thread so I don't have to chew my cabbage for a third time and, more importantly, I won't have to reread your uninformed, stream of consciousness garbage (which makes my head hurt).

[Churla22]

Originally Posted by cookie monster

So it's not just the politics threads....Lol.

I can only imagine. At least with politics, it's usually a matter of ideology, as opposed to absolutes. With baseball, even with the availability of statistical evidence and methodology, jack STILL lacks the ability to draft a cogent, well reasoned argument.

Pitiful.

[bigjack]

I guess Mr Compiler didn't realize that Joe Tinker came BEFORE Maranville!

Pretty pathetic and clearly not COGENT!

I'm not surprised!

[Churla22]

Originally Posted by bigjack

I guess Mr Compiler didn't realize that Joe Tinker came BEFORE Maranville!

Pretty pathetic and clearly not COGENT!

I'm not surprised!

C'mon, man, I said that Maranville was the Ozzie of HIS era. What does the fact that Tinker's prime came a few years before Rabbit entered the league have to do with anything?

Do you even read what you type?

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Churla22

C'mon, man, I said that Maranville was the Ozzie of HIS era. What does the fact that Tinker's prime came a few years before Rabbit entered the league have to do with anything?

Do you even read what you type?

Maranville was not the Ozzie, Tinker was rated the best SS up to Mark Belanger so that is the point!

You are wrong and somehow missed the obvious point twice!

Not very COGENT!

Your brain must be compiling average stats and causing you to go ga ga!

[Churla22]

Originally Posted by bigjack

Maranville was not the Ozzie, Tinker was rated the best SS up to Mark Belanger so that is the point!

You are wrong and somehow missed the obvious point twice!

Not very COGENT!

Your brain must be compiling average stats and causing you to go ga ga!

Yet again, you are dwelling on nonsense. You wanted to know how Rabbit was in the Hall of Fame. I gave you an answer - he was considered an all-time great defensive shortstop. What is the problem?

To address your nonsense, you just stated that Tinker came BEFORE Maranville to refute my statement that Rabbit was the "Ozzie" of HIS era ("Ozzie" being code for best defensive SS). If you are stating they played in two different time frames, the two statements are not mutually exclusive - c'mon, jack, I thought you were smarter than this.

[Churla22]

Despite your slight ineptitude with their application, it IS encouraging to see that you are attempting to incorporate WAR and defense into your analysis. Hopefully, you'll soon be able to fashion solid, COGENT arguments in support of or against certain players.