Boxing Thread 2K12

[blackngold]

Keith "One Time" Thurman. That was impressive.

By the way, I hope HBO never makes mention of Adrien Broner's rap career again. Ouch. What was that?

[Blues 34]

Jumping the gun a bit because I think the Knockdowns will make the difference but what a ****ing fight. Shame that there had to be a loser. Both guys gave their all until the final bell. Huge win for Guererro. This was a street fight that was brutally beautiful and the kind of fight that creates new fans and makes boxing the best sport in the world

AWESOME!!!!!'

[blackngold]

It was truly a pleasure watching both combatants put it all out on the line right up to the final bell, and even after it.

[Flyers2001]

If Berto knew how to step back and turn he would have won the fight. Instead he let Ghost do an excellent job in mugging and out working him. Good victory for Robert. He showed great heart and a solid chin. He did not show me anything that would make me think he would be nothing but a 4-1 dog to Floyd.

[Flyers2001]

As I ride the bike here at the gym watching highlights of the fights, I am frustrated by the lack of boxing brains Berto has. It's because he does things good 25% of the time and he waste the rest of his talent. Dude has now dropped to Victor Ortiz status. Exciting fighter, but not an elite champion. He has extreme hand speed, good power but lacks brains and is a bit chinny. He's been wobbled and dropped in multiple fights. He will be a good test for some of these young guns coming up but his time of getting a top money fight is over. Possible future foes: Ortiz, Maidana, Brook, Alexander, and Guerrero. I feel like Haymon should cash out now because he is exciting but has reached his peak.

[Blues 34]

I would love to see Berto-Ortiz 2 that could be a fight of the year just like the first one

[JKidd]

The recap of a great weekend:

-Scott Quigg TKO6 over Rendell Munroe
It was never close, and on paper it was a mismatch. Munroe kept him at bay with solid boxing here and there, but the body attack from Quigg just decimated Munroe to the point of taking a knee in 6, before rising and eating an uppercut to the body that stopped the action. Quigg now becomes the WBA regular champ, and is in line for a shot at Rigo.

-Marty Murray TKO6 over Jorge Navarro
Again, a mismatch on paper and in the ring. I'm not sure how Murray didn't end him in the 2nd, but, oh well. As soon as Murray started leading the action again, Navarro was in trouble. He fought too defensively against a guy severely limited in there, IMO. Either way, he got him out of there without taking damage.

-Vyacheslav Senchenko KO9 over Ricky Hatton
Hatton started out like a menace, using decent enough head movement and his jab to get inside, and landed well upstairs and downstairs. Then, for whatever reason, all that went out the window and he started head hunting. In the process, Senchenko landed solid punches, while Hatton simply walked forward doing nothing but miss wildly. I had Senchenko sweeping the last 4 rounds of the fight, and I'm not sure how anyone could have seen otherwise as Ricky didn't land anything in those rounds, and I mean anything at all. The end comes as Senchenko steps in with a solid 1-2, and then hammers a perfect liver shot-left hook on Hatton. His legs go, and he's on all 4s, before going face down all together and taking the full 10 count. Justice really, considering Senchenko was crazily down on all 3 cards by at least two rounds.

Onto the HBO card:
-Keith Thurman TKO4 over Carlos Quintana
This was a wall washing all together. Quintana came in looking awful, and then got dropped in the first with a crushing shot to the liver. He got up, and then decided to run the from then on. Until the 4th. He eats a massive combo upstairs and then falls around the ring before the ref mercifully stops the fight.

-Robert Guerrero UD12 over Andre Berto
It was ugly, it was brutal, and it was at times hard to watch as these two just beat the ****ing piss out of each other. Guerrero dropped Berto in the first and 2nd rounds, and then it was a rinse/repeat fight from there. Guerrero threw a 1-2, then fell in, and tied up Berto, pushing him to the ropes to do more work. On the ropes, Berto would push off, and then rip Guerrero with hooks and uppercuts. It was sloppy, Berto would hold with one arm, get smacked around with the other. Guerrero would hold behind the head and hit with the other. And after 12 grueling rounds, where both guys had an eye swollen completely shut - Berto having both nearly close - Guerrero walks away with the UD and retains the interim WBC title.

[JKidd]

I gave my take on Senchenko and Hatton already.

My take on Keith Thurman. Still has a lot of holes in his game, but, he's a fun guy to watch, and he's knocking guys out. Does that mean he belongs on HBO still? No, not in my opinion. Look at how long it took Lara, Vanes, Kirkland, Rosado, or anyone else to get to their respective points. But, having Al Haymon means that much of something I guess. Was it a quality win over a big name guy, yeah, it was. Was it a win over a 36 year old form champ trying to rebuild his own resume? Yeah, it was. Seeing how each 154lb champ is tied up, except Canelo who's "resting" until Cinco de Mayo, I don't see where he goes except towards maybe some sort of eliminator. Or they get him another 154lb'er to feast on, and showcase his KO power again.

Quintana did retire immediately following the fight, so, take that for what it's worth.

Andre Berto... his lack of boxing sense drives me crazy. As Flyers mentioned, the inability to do anything but simply push off and try to throw shots, instead of stepping back-setting traps, moving laterally or doing anything else is just frustrating. Coming out in a half shell defense clearly confused him as well. He didn't know what to do and it showed with some clear hesitation, and being dropped twice early. The guy has blazing hand speed, and heavy hands, but he has next to no footwork (as evident with Guerrero constantly being able to step outside him and around, getting shots off), and no boxing sense to know when to throw punches, and to where. Was he ever an elite level champion? I don't think so. Beating Jan Zaveck for a belt and Steve Forbes really never impressed me. KO'ing a damaged, mentally gone Quintana and Freddy Hernandez never really spoke to me either. But, he was a champ with Al Haymon. Should Haymon cash him out? Tough to say. He'll still get chances, and for his all flaws - he makes damn good fights for the fans. Might be worth keeping for a year or two to get an Ortiz rematch, fight with Kendall Holt, Maidana or another fringe contender which will do good business, and possibly get him another crack at a champ - like Paulie or Alexander.

Robert Guerrero.. he just finds ways to win. He could have kept it on the outside and boxed Berto easily. That was evident in 1 and 2 where he strafed him with lead lefts early, and did the major damage to the eye. But, he then engaged him and went to all out war with him on the ropes, especially in the 7th round (a round of the year candidate, IMO). He keeps winning, and he keeps raising his stock. Do I think he's anything special that can give Mayweather a challenge? No, not at all. But, at least he's beating guys, keeping his name out there, making decent fights, and creating some wrinkles in the division. I still see Floyd rolling him and easily winning. But, if Berto, who is a legit welter weight and landed some vicious power shots couldn't stop Guerrero, I'm not sure there is anyone in the division that can. The guy has a granite chin. I wouldn't mind him getting Floyd, because, well we know Manny isn't going to get him. And I'd like him to get him for the payday and the ass whooping would hopefully mean he stops calling him out.

[JKidd]

News and notes time:
Lucas Matthysse returning in December in Argentina, and then to Barclays in February. Pablo Cano is a rumored opponent for him. Which would be a god damn dandy of a fight.

Who's next for Paulie now that Ricky Hatton is out of the picture? Great question. At this point, there is nobody truly next. The WBA has mandated Argentine bomber Diego Chaves as his mandatory, but that's a huge risk, low reward fight for Paulie. A rematch with Vyacheslav Senchenko state side is being looked at, especially with the stock rise of Senchenko following the KO of Hatton. At this point, if Paulie wants on the Barclays card in February, he'd better start engaging conversations about an opponent.

Fernando Guerrero going after Gennady Golovkin very hard. Once it was reported that Rosado was being considered, Guerrero's camp went into overdrive trying to get the fight. They met up with Gennady recently and in person told him they want the fight. HBO and K2 are expecting to have an opponent confirmed soon.

Ruslan Chagaev continues his comeback for a HW title as he squares off with Yakup Saglam (28-1, 25 KOs) on 12/1.

LW contender John Murray failed his physical for a fight with countryman Gavin Rees, and has forced the cancellation of their fight. Rees will now wait until the new year to fight, and Murray - back to the drawing board after the damage sustained against Rios.

Former MW champ Dmitry Pirog is rumored to be returning to HBO in March or April of 2013. No rumored opponents or anything.

Lastly, Andre Ward vs. Kelly Pavlik is a done deal for HBO. Fight is slated for January 26th at the Galen Center on USC campus in LA. Expect a sell out of 11K fans for that fight. Co-feature will be the HW eliminator between Bermane Stiverne and Chris Arreola. Also confirmed for the card is Juan Carlos Salgado defending his super featherweight title against Argenis Mendez in a rematch to a controversial fight last September.

[Flyers2001]

Freddie Roach has some nerve. Telling everyone he would kiss Marquez's ass if he was all natural. The head tariner of Manny P who refused drug testing for the longest time when Manny was at his most dominant is calling someone else out. Freddie you are losing your mind and are becoming quite desperate with the amount of fights your fighters are losing.

Suddenly now Manny P is open to testing.

I don't think Manny P in on anything now, but its just hypocritical of Freddie to be running his mouth about this particular topic.

[JKidd]

Flyers, it's a very interesting point.

If you look at the situation itself, and the categorical rise of Manny, it's hard not to think of PEDs coming into play. I don't like to point fingers without any sort of evidence to lean on, but the situation as a whole, it does stink.

The fact he went up weight that fast, and with that much destruction. Then, of all sudden, it all stops? Right when Manny says he's clean and finally will allow testing to prove such? From an athlete and boxing standpoint in general, very hard to believe.

As far as Roach's comments... it's stupid. All I'm going to say. I hate when trainers get involved in this kind of **** to begin with, especially one like Roach who's having client leave his gym, and who's gym is essentially empty of top end talent and wins at this point.

It's just a matter of time before Manny is cashed out, and everyone that was clinging to him is gone - from Arum to Roach and everyone else.

[Flyers2001]

You mention Arum and Manny being cashed out at some point. I mentioned Berto getting cashed out and so forth. Let's break this down. Top PFP fighters will be gone in a short amount of times. Martinez, Manny, Floyd, Marquez, Cotto, Both Klitscho's. Thats a lot of top end talent that are older and won't be around.

*Now let's look at the future stars, the best 25 and under talent and who they are with. If GBP can keep their fighters they will run boxing. They have the majority of best young fighters in the sport. List Below:

Adrien Broner: 25-0, 23 years old - GBP
Canelo Alvarez: 41-0-1, 22 years old - GBP
Danny Garcia: 25-0, 24 years old - GBP
Micky Garcia: 30-0, 24 years old - Top Rank
Leo Santa Cruz: 22-0-1, 24 years old - GBP
Javier Fortuna: 20-0, 23 years old - Sampson Lewkowicz, Sampson Boxing
Thomas Oosthuizen: 21-0-1, 24 Years old - Lou DiBella
Keith Thurman: 19-0, 24 years old - GBP
Luis Ramos Jr.: 20-0, 24 years old - GBP
George Grooves: 15-0, 24 years old - Frank Warren
Tyson Fury: 19-0, 24 years old - Mick Hennessy
Devon Alexander: 24-1, 25 years old - GBP
Amir Khan: 26-3-0, 25 years old - GBP
Miguel Vazquez: 32-3, 25 years old - Gary Shaw
Sharif Bogere: 23-0, 24 years old - GBP
Kazuto Ioka: 10-0, 23 years old - Mototoshi Sakamoto

Now I have gone through a lot of list to try and find fighters 25 and under who have been on the big stage with some losses or they are undefeated/champions. GBP dominates this list and they signed most of the US top olympic fighters. Top Rank is going to have to buy there way into the game in future years.

[JKidd]

To continue with that, lots of Olympians are signing with Al Haymon as well. I just read an article at the RING where they're planning a CBS show with Leo Santa Cruz and 6 Olympians, all of which are under Al Haymon's managerial banner. For those not following, Top Rank and Al Haymon will NOT do business at all, or ever. Or at least until Bob Arum passes away.

GBP is positioned perfectly right now. They have the premier young talent, they have them in weight classes people like to watch, and they have good to great relations with the other promoters and managers.

If you look at Top Rank's stable, it's getting smaller and smaller with each passing year. They have a couple thoroughbreds, but they won't be around forever and are running into issues finding viable opponents for them. They're also getting very short with up and coming talent. Here's a quick look at TR's stable:

-Manny, how much longer will he be around?
-Donaire, the only real monster Top Rank has right now. However, his drawing power in Cali pails in comparison to the main draw in the area and in the weight class, Abner Mares.
-Jessie Magdaleno, a hell of a young talent and only 21.
-Jorge Arce, how much left does Arce have?
-Mikey Garcia, a huge following and the glitzy record. But, hasn't headlined a single event yet and hasn't been built all that much, yet.
-Chavez Jr, took a ruthless beating against Sergio, and is now suspended pending a review. Lots of people are not happy with him with regards to his habits and out of ring behavior, how much will he draw when he comes back? And did Sergio lay the blue print for beating him?
-Timothy Bradley, has no idea what he's doing. Had a huge payday and headline act on HBO, and turned it down for...? And he's a pathetic draw.
-Mike Alvarado, already in his early-mid 30s and how much can he take with his style?
-Mercito Gesta, nobody is caring for him. He's not a fan friendly fighter and his build up thus far and has fallen flat with less than expected attendances and very little showcase opportunities on HBO or Showtime.
-Diego Magdaleno, lacks the KO power for people to really get behind. Supremely talented, but untested and is now battling hand issues.
-Vanes Martirosyan, keeps laying eggs when given primetime. He sucked with Joe Greene, and he sucked with Lara (no matter who's fault). He's also in a weight class dominated by GBP.
-Juan Manuel Lopez, coming off of suspension and has turned down a 6 figure payday on HBO at MSG. Not sure what else to say about his business decisions other than that. He's also appearing to be damaged goods, and he's moving up in weight to harder punchers and better boxers.
-Roman "Rocky" Martinez, a hell of a fighter, but in a weight class that doesn't get main billing outside of Adrien Broner.
-Fernando Montiel, damaged goods and old.
-Guillermo Rigondeaux, fighting bums but isn't going to get a shot with the main draw of the division, Abner Mares. For whatever reason isn't being set against Donaire yet, either.
-Kelly Pavlik, nothing special anymore, and will be cashed out after Andre Ward decimates him.
-Jessie Vargas, a good solid young prospect. Will get his first headline bill next month on ESPN.
-Brandon Rios, in a division completely dominated by GBP at 140. And even when he moves up to 147, still dominated by GBP outside of Manny.

It's a thin cabinet. Bob Arum has burned a lot of bridges. Whoever succeeds him as boss of Top Rank will have a lot of mending to do to keep the banner going.

[JKidd]

And then this comes out from Boxing scene:
http://www.boxingscene.com/bob-arum-...roposal--59871

Richard Shaefer proposed to have the companies jointly use/trade each others fighters.

Shaefer said GBP will step aside and let Top Rank promote Donaire/Mares only if Top Rank allowed Golden Boy to use Brandon Rios in a title fight with Lucas Matthysse.

And Bob Arum categorically denies the request.

What a ****ing piece of ****. I HATE Bob Arum with a passion.

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by JKidd

And then this comes out from Boxing scene:
http://www.boxingscene.com/bob-arum-...roposal--59871

Richard Shaefer proposed to have the companies jointly use/trade each others fighters.

Shaefer said GBP will step aside and let Top Rank promote Donaire/Mares only if Top Rank allowed Golden Boy to use Brandon Rios in a title fight with Lucas Matthysse.

And Bob Arum categorically denies the request.

What a ****ing piece of ****. I HATE Bob Arum with a passion.

Todd DuBoef is Bob Arum's son by Arum marrying Todd's mother and is president of Top Rank. He seems to be the next in line. He has better working relations with most everyone in boxing than Arum does. DuBeof throughout his involvement has been the one to try and keep peace through Top Rank and other rival promoters. Even between Top Rank and HBO. Reading articles you will find DuBeof to be very smart and apssionate about the sport of boxing and not just about Top Rank. Thats important. he comes from the school of thought that if boxing is doing well universally then Top Rank will be better off from it.

When Bob Arum finally decides to rest, Top Rank will be better off and the average boxing fan will be in heaven. There will be the best fighting the best, because certain amount of the politics will be left aside.