Boxing Thread 2K12

[Flyers2001]

If you don't think Dawson was labeled the man at 175 after the year he had in 2008, then yes, we will agree to disagree.

BUT,

Your INSANE if you don't think Tito was the PPV sell when Hopkins faught him. So what he stepped on a flag all that did was enrage some people. It was desperation, the same thing he did pushing Winky at the weigh-in.

Tito cleaned out the welterweight division where the money and fame were at. He beat DLH who was the man, he moved up to super welter and beat Vargas in a war. Vargas also had huge name recognition at the time.

There was never a PR fighter as popular as Tito was at the time. The fight was at Madison square garden for Tito. Tito made 8 million, Hopkins 2.8 million.

Hopkins had built himself a nice resume, but this was his first real fight that would bring him to stardom.

The next fight was Carlos Daniel's for the record. Two things Hopkins had going for him to finally get that paypady. The record that HBO wanted to show and he just beat Tito. The fight was in Reading what does that say.

Hopkins is not a draw. He made 1 million vs. Dawson's 800k in their first fight and thats because Hopkins has the belt.

You do the research on what Calslappy made compared to Hopkins. Joe was the draw.

I'll leave you with this:

"I'll never lose to a white boy."

I never pick against Hopkins, but I think Dawson wins this fight. Check my record in 2011, its niceeeeee....

Kastidis a watered down version of Gatti, def. a FOTY possibility.

Good Stuff, my friend.

[tim13]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

If you don't think Dawson was labeled the man at 175 after the year he had in 2008, then yes, we will agree to disagree.

One last attempt to get you to agree to agree... I present to you the Ring Magazine pound for pound rankings published November 10, 2008 (after Dawson had beaten both Johnson and Tarver):



http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/...d.php?t=103560

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

Your INSANE if you don't think Tito was the PPV sell when Hopkins faught him. So what he stepped on a flag all that did was enrage some people. It was desperation, the same thing he did pushing Winky at the weigh-in.

Tito cleaned out the welterweight division where the money and fame were at. He beat DLH who was the man, he moved up to super welter and beat Vargas in a war. Vargas also had huge name recognition at the time.

There was never a PR fighter as popular as Tito was at the time. The fight was at Madison square garden for Tito. Tito made 8 million, Hopkins 2.8 million.

Hopkins had built himself a nice resume, but this was his first real fight that would bring him to stardom.

Phew, well I'm glad you just confirmed my sanity because of course I don't believe that. I said as much in my last post. All I was saying is that Hopkins did add hype to what was already a very hyped fight. Like it or not, Hopkins is good at playing the race card, and because of anti-Puerto-Rican racism, the angry black man was able to become the white man's fighter for a night. There were a lot of people who wanted Trinidad to lose that night. The Puerto Ricans driving through the cities with their Puerto Rican flags flying, honking their horns and firing gun shots all hours of the night after his victories rubbed a lot of people the wrong way (I didn't move to Philadelphia until 01 - before that I had grown up in a suburb of Reading which as I'm sure you know is a mini San Juan).

And as for how popular Tito was, trust me, I know. I was at MSG that night, and it was one of the craziest things I ever experienced. When it all went quiet and me and the other 500 Hopkins fans (spread out of course; I was just with the 3 guys I came with) in attendance were going nuts there were moments when I thought we wouldn't make it out of there alive. It was absolutely the fight that put Bernard on the map for people who weren't hardcore boxing fans or weren't from the tri state area.

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

The next fight was Carlos Daniel's for the record. Two things Hopkins had going for him to finally get that paypady. The record that HBO wanted to show and he just beat Tito. The fight was in Reading what does that say..

What's your beef with Reading? I was there that night too. Awesome figh night in Reading. It was shortly after the new Sovereign Center had opened and that was a huge event. Like you said, Hopkins was going for the record on HBO; there were a whole sh*t load of boxing legends and personalities in attendance, just a really cool night for the City of Reading. I saw Mayorga's crazy ass knock out Six Heads Lewis in Reading too.

Speaking of Tito, I sh*t you not, when we left the Hopkins/Daniels fight, there were about 1,000 Trinidad "protesters" right outside the main exit waving flags and doing Tito chants and Hopkins sucks and all that. It was insane.

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

Hopkins is not a draw. He made 1 million vs. Dawson's 800k in their first fight and thats because Hopkins has the belt.

All I'll say is this, for a guy who supposedly can't draw, he's made more money than any other fighter who can't draw in the history of the sport, and he did it all after the age of 35.

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

You do the research on what Calslappy made compared to Hopkins. Joe was the draw.

Hopkins begrudginly caved and gave in to a 50/50 split of the purse. As far as extra earnings, I have no idea; couldn't really find anything. Calzaghe himself though has gone on record saying he's glad Hopkins said the "white boy" thing because of the attention it received and the hype it added to the fight.

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

I'll leave you with this:

"I'll never lose to a white boy."

I never pick against Hopkins, but I think Dawson wins this fight. Check my record in 2011, its niceeeeee....

Kastidis a watered down version of Gatti, def. a FOTY possibility.

Good Stuff, my friend.

Haha, but as I said, Hopkins didn't lose the fight. To make a long story short, I'm half first generation American and I have a lot of friends and family in London. I have a friend who is/was a huge Calzaghe fan. I was so confident that I saw that fight correctly that I made him a 2/1 bet that if we watched the fight together in slo-mo (I know, exciting right?) he would be convinced by the end of it that Hopkins won the fight. He's an honest guy so it was a fair bet. If I remember correctly, I had it 115-112 for Hopkins and he had it 115-112 for Calzaghe. By the time the slo-mo replay was over, and he saw who was actually landing meaningful punches, I had his money in my pocket, and he thought the idea was laughable when I brought it up. Just saying. There are, or at least were a couple videos on youtube to this same effect that are extremely persuasive, showing Joe flurrying with five "punches" that all miss or get blocked, Hopkins landing a sharp counter and Joe backing off. And it continued to happen over and over again.

I'll take your word on your record, I don't need to check it out. Just the 50 or so posts I've read from you over the years clearly illustrate your knowledge.

But... check out my last post about boxpicks.com and put your (play) money where your mouth is! We can start up a hockeyfights.com league on there if jkidd and a couple others join too.

And if I'm being honest this will be the first fight probably ever where I think Hopkins has a chance of losing going into it, but I still think he pulls it off. Just can't really believe he'll lose; especially in AC.

[Daaaa B's]

Originally Posted by tim13

And as for Calslappy and that con job he pulled off, I'm with Max Kellerman in that Bernard hasn't lost on my card since RJJ in 93.

I was going to post this exact comment.


Good points by both yourself and Flyers2001 regarding Hopkins/Dawson. Interesting discussion without being jackasses. That's rare on some of forums on this site.

[tim13]

Originally Posted by Daaaa B's

I was going to post this exact comment.


Good points by both yourself and Flyers2001 regarding Hopkins/Dawson. Interesting discussion without being jackasses. That's rare on some of forums on this site.

That's because we're both Flyers fans, now if one of us was a Bruins fan... just kidding.

You're right, there's no need for insults simply because people see things differently. If both sides respect the other's opinions, that's when actual dialogue takes place. He makes a good point and I think, "yeah, he's on to something" and vice versa. I think the main problem with this site on the whole is that there are too many trolls just looking for attention and putting out opinions they don't actually believe, and then people give them the reaction they're looking for (Im certainly guilty of this sometimes) and the sh*t hits the fan. I've always thought these boxing threads are awesome whenever I've checked them out for exactly that reason; there's no bullsh*t in here.

Even though you read the last few posts, I'll make a personal pitch for boxpicks.com to you too. Check it out and see what you think and consider registering.

[Flyers2001]

Pound for pound rankings are seperate from divisional rankings. For instance, many rankings had Pacman ahead on the p4p list, but Floyd the man at 147.

Either way good stuff, we'll move on from here!

When it comes to scoring a fight, its very subjective. Its very difficult in fights where you have a tactical technician like Hopkins who relies more on ring generalship than someone like Calslappy who relies more on activity.


I didn't like Joe Calzaghe at first, but looking at his overall body of work he is easily a HOF'er and one of the top 5 fighters ever from across the pond. I just wish he came over sooner.

[tim13]

Oh Joe was a phenomenal fighter with out of this world talent. I'm not taking anything away from him at all that I don't think is fairly obvious. Like Roy said after Joe got done humiliating him for 12 rounds, those slaps add up and start to hurt.

He absolutely walked just about every fight I ever saw him in, the exceptions being Bernard, where Joe just didn't at all have that swagger he had in every other fight and had to force it with that gay butt f*cking thing he did, Bika, who gives everyone a tough fight, and the prototypical Philadelphia lunch pail fighter Charles Brewer. I didn't see the Robin Reid fight but from what I've read that was a dandy.

But, yeah, like you, I would have liked to have seen him in there against some better opposition. In my opinion he retired much too early; there were 4 or 5 more really good fights he could have had if he would've stayed around for another 2 or 3 years, but I think it came down to his not wanting to lose that 0 on his record.

[Flyers2001]

I think Joe retired because he made a sh*t load of money, esp towards the end and he is quite the party animal.

I don't know how much longer he could have lasted with all the white powder going up his nose.

On a side note, his women has quite the manface. "A real Butterface."

[JKidd]

Some ugly **** going down with Lucian Bute, Carl Froch, Andre Dirrell and Showtime.

Showtime has rejected Froch vs. Bute. They are now stating they want a fighter Froch has defeated to take his place, and Andre Dirrell is the most appealing to them.

Bute's camp wants Froch, and don't seem interested in Dirrell.

I don't care if they put Froch or Dirrell in there, it's a good fight either way, IMO. Froch barely edged Dirrell, in his hometown, with a hometown point deduction from the ref to Dirrell. Dirrell would have to go to Canada though and face Bute in the Bell Centre, which of course is a tough place to win even if you knock a Canadian champ out.

I know Bute will be a huge favorite, but I think Dirrell has a hell of a chance against Bute, and much better than the vast majority of the opponents Bute has fought (excluding Glenn Johnson of course) in recent years.

Don't forget about the "other" Dirrell in the 168lb division either... Anthony Dirrell. The kid has got sickening power, and is just as fast as Andre, if not faster and a very fluid puncher.

Interested to see how this all shakes out in the coming weeks.

Andre Dirrell has broken away from Gary Shaw and started up his own promotional company. He's also now on record saying he is NOT going to Canada to fight Lucian Bute. He stated that if Bute and Showtime are serious about the fight, they'll come down to the states so he can get a fair shake at the fight, even if it's in Detroit or the SilverDome - right across the border.

---

In other news that you can file under who gives a ****, Cory Spinks boxed Sechew Powells' ears off this weekend to be K9's mandatory challenger. I said it before and I'll say it again, how the **** does K9 keep getting away with this garbage? He hasn't fought since UD'ing Powell in his last fight, back in June, and now will get a rematch with Spinks who has fought Powell and Shakir Ashanti (who was 16-10 going into the Spinks fight). How does this garbage fly with the IBF in one of boxing's most stacked divisions in 154lbs!? I just can't fathom it. There rankings don't even have James Kirkland or Alfredo Angulo or Anthony Mundine on them, which is far beyond comical.

[JKidd]

Andre Berto vs. Victor Ortiz II is in jeopardy of being postponed.

Berto has suffered an arm injury in training, and is receiving medical attention. Hoping to know in the next few days the severity of the injury and the fights scheduling.

BERTO VS. ORTIZ 2 IS OFF

Andre Berto ruptured his biceps in training, and will be undergoing surgery in the coming days to repair it.

No time table is set for his return, or the rematch with Victor.

[Daaaa B's]

Originally Posted by jkidd

Andre Berto vs. Victor Ortiz II is in jeopardy of being postponed.

Berto has suffered an arm injury in training, and is receiving medical attention. Hoping to know in the next few days the severity of the injury and the fights scheduling.

BERTO VS. ORTIZ 2 IS OFF

Andre Berto ruptured his biceps in training, and will be undergoing surgery in the coming days to repair it.

No time table is set for his return, or the rematch with Victor.

****, ****, ****!!!!

[acdcrocksno1]

Who the **** thought it would be cool to name this thread 2k12?

[JKidd]

Originally Posted by acdcrocksno1

Who the **** thought it would be cool to name this thread 2k12?

The 0 button on my phone wasn't working when I created it.

One of these days I'll get around to retitling it.

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by acdcrocksno1

Who the **** thought it would be cool to name this thread 2k12?

Thanks for the contribution.

[Flyers2001]

Vanes has offered to fill in for Berto. He even claims he can get down to 147.

[acdcrocksno1]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

Thanks for the contribution.

You're welcome