Boxing Thread 2K12

[JKidd]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

*July 14 could potentially be a double header in regards to Mexico vs Philippines. I read one article suggesting right away it would be Marquez vs. Gesta. Another article said that Gesta was returning in April and had a real big opportunity later in the summer, meaning "Marquez." The other fight would feature Donaire vs. Victor Terrazas. Terrezas is a solid fighter in his prime. 7 wins in a row, wins most notably against Fernando Montiel. I would consider it a somewhat stay busy/weight adjustment type fight, with the expectations of a big fight in the fall.

I'm not a fan of that fight in the least bit. That is a MASSIVE step up for a young prospect who hasn't even been 12 rounds yet. I know he's gotta get to the top end eventually, but subjecting him to a HOFer in Marquez is not a good thing for a 24 year old prospect yet to hit his prime, or really be in any sort of deep waters yet. Especially considering the depth at 130, there has to be a gatekeeper out there that needs the fight.

I am just fine with Victor Terrazas vs. Donaire though. That's a solid matchup, and one Donaire better do more than just look for a one shot KO to win.

The whole Sergio saga is getting old. He can easily make 154, and has said so in the past. Even saying he'll go to 150 for a fight with Mayweather and Pacman. Lovely, then prove your worth at 154 as well as 160, seeing how there is nobody outside Andy Lee, JCC Jr, and Peter Quillin at 160 - at the moment. But hey, if he's content with fighting Euro bumbs like Barker and Dzinzurik, whatever. He can be a flash in the pan kind of fighter who had a couple notable wins and then drifs into the sunset of his career because that's all his career is shaping up to be at this point.

[Flyers2001]

The funny thing about Martinez is he jumped ont he scene late and out of nowhere. I look back on it now and wonder how he acheived top p4p status in a very short period of time. Let's look back.

Notable Fights:
vs. margarito in 2000 he lost in a TKO in rd. 7

vs. Saul Roman he won by KO in 4

vs. Kermit Cintron, it was declared a draw, many though Martinez should have won.

vs. Paul Williams - He lost a decision. Fight could have gone either way.

vs. Kelly Pavlik - He won a decision in a very good, close fight.

vs. Paul Williams - He wins via KO in rd. 2 - Goes up to top 5 in p4p rankings.

vs. Dzinzurik - He wins TKO in 8.

vs. Darren Barker he wins tko in 11.

Here something that stands out. From October 2007 to February 2009 or after his fight with Roman until Cintron he fought 5 guys, all wins, with a combined record of 77 wins 59 loses and 4 ties. Real impressive. --To give everyone an idea, Paul Williams had 6 fights in 3 weight classes going 5-1, redeeming the loss. His opponents combine record was 193-21-2. Kelly Pavlik during that time, had 5 fights, going 4-1 (Hopkins Loss). His opponents combine record was 175-11-4.

Sorry, but I think Sergio has great talent, but I am finding it tough to beleive thats top 5 p4p status. More I think about it, heading in to the most important fights against Williams and Pavlik he was a lot fresher. Pavlik and Williams went through a set of elite fighters.

Martinez looked elite when he faught Pavlik, ko'd Williams, and beat Dzinzurik, but thats 3 fights over a career. He looked ordinary in his win over Barker. He needs a big name on his card in the second half of the year or he will be considered a flash in a pan in a late blooming career.

PED's?

[JKidd]

I don't think it's PEDs. Gotta remember before boxing he was a cyclist (I know, a high PED rate), which would keep him very lean. It wasn't until he met up with Gabriel Sarmiento in 2002 when his career really took off by winning the IBO 154lb title. From there, things kind of fell in line until he met up with Lou who brought him over here and really got his career on the fast track with the fight against Saul Roman and so on. I think the lack of an amateur career (under 40 fights if memory serves me right), and starting the sport late while already being an athlete really have served him well. As far as the late power comes from, I think that's him refining the craft and really getting better at what he does - which is fight.

I'm not saying it's not possible for him to be on PEDs, without question it is.

I certainly don't like the fact he burst onto the scene beating the lineal champ, and then dropping his competition level (outside of PWill) to that of Euro bumbs.

That's why I said weeks ago he needs to realize he's not THE draw at 160 and it's time for him to bite the bullet and fight JCC Jr for peanuts, and to start looking south again to 154 where he can really start putting together a solid fight card. He's 37 and can't afford to wait for 154 pounders to not make that limit and come up to him. He has to go down to the light middie division to start carving out a legacy, otherwise, he'll be known as a flash in the pan with two tremendous victories, and that's it.

The vault up the P4P charts is a testament, IMO, to how good PWill and Pavlik were at the time. Williams was easily a top 10, if not top 5 P4P at the time. And Pavlik was THE man at 160 after dethroning Jermain Taylor in impressive fashion, then making sure people didn't think it was a fluke by beating him again in convincing fashion.

Remember how quick Nonito Donaire flew up the P4P charts with his crushing win over Fernando Montiel...

All it takes is a victory or two against who people would consider THE best in the weight class, and you go straight up.

[Flyers2001]

I think it is a testament to how good Williams and Pavlik were at the time. The combined records of their opponents is impressive.

I was bored so I started to look back at impressive 2-3 year runs.

Young Mayweather mowing down opponents. Starting when he beat Corrales in 2001 until his only fight in 2004 against chop-chop. He had 8 fights, 7 opponents with a combined record of 286-17-6. Quite impressive with opponents average age of 28.25, prime.

Prime Shane Mosley. Starting in 2001 when he beat Oscar until the second time in 2003 he beat Oscar again. 8 fights, 6 opponents 5-2-1, with a combine record of 262-10-3. Nice, avg opponents age. 29

Manny's recent run. From Oscar in 12/2008 to present. 7 Fights, 7 wins. The crazy thing is he beat 5 future HOF's. Though not in their prime, but impressive none the less. Opposition record, 290-27-2. Opponents Average Age. 34. Most were establuished money fights. I could have took Manny's run back to the second Barrera fight, but that would have not done much to the average age of opponents.



Craziest thought- Sugar Ray Robinson had 16 fights from 2/1942 until 2/1943.
He fought Jake LaMotta 3 times within 4 months going 2-1. Insane times back then. His opponets combined record, an astonishing 595-153-70. They fought so much back then.

[Wadubbin]

I think Pascal broke off talks with Salakh because he saw Tavoris Cloud fight the other night,and his eyes lit up.

[JKidd]

Originally Posted by Wadubbin

I think Pascal broke off talks with Salakh because he saw Tavoris Cloud fight the other night,and his eyes lit up.

I don't doubt that one bit. Although, I'd still take Cloud over Pascal.

Some fun news... Brandon Rios in an interview professing his disgust for fellow champ, one division south, Adrien Broner.

Per the interview with boxingscene: link

"I hope Eloy destroys that motherf***er. He's (Broner) a cocky son of a b*tch. He called me out and talked sh*t. He's a 130 pounder who is talking sh*t and this is my last fight at 135 before I move up," Rios bluntly stated. "I hope he (Eloy) beats the f**k out of him in that fight. Broner is nothing but a Mayweather wannabe. He's nowhere near being Mayweather," Rios concluded.

I'd LOOOOOOOVE a Broner vs. Rios bout. That would be a great ****ing fight.

[Wadubbin]

Originally Posted by jkidd

I don't doubt that one bit. Although, I'd still take Cloud over Pascal.

Some fun news... Brandon Rios in an interview professing his disgust for fellow champ, one division south, Adrien Broner.

Per the interview with boxingscene: link

"I hope Eloy destroys that motherf***er. He's (Broner) a cocky son of a b*tch. He called me out and talked sh*t. He's a 130 pounder who is talking sh*t and this is my last fight at 135 before I move up," Rios bluntly stated. "I hope he (Eloy) beats the f**k out of him in that fight. Broner is nothing but a Mayweather wannabe. He's nowhere near being Mayweather," Rios concluded.

I'd LOOOOOOOVE a Broner vs. Rios bout. That would be a great ****ing fight.

Yeah Cloud may very well beat Pascal.But a few things are becoming apparent with Cloud.He doesn't take movement well.Pascal moves pretty well.And he covers up when more than two punches are thrown in succession at him...So I'd take Pascal on points..

Rios needs to worry about Gamboa...But I do like his quotes...

[JKidd]

Some awesome action this weekend... lets see the predictions!

Adrien Broner vs. Eloy Perez
I'll take Broner via TKO in the mid rounds. I don't think Perez has the power to get Broner's respect, and when he realizes that, he'll start really hammering down on Perez.

Marcos Maidana vs. Devon Alexander
Alexander has regressed considerably since his KO of Juan Urango (which seems like a decade ago now), arguably losing all 3 of his fights since (depending on how you view Kotelynik and Matthysse). Maidana, you know what you're going to get. He'll be coming for you all night long, and all it takes is one shot. Devon got hit way too much by the "other" Argentine bomber, I don't see this being any different. I'll take Maidana via TKO near round 8.

Alexander Povetkin vs. Marco Huck
Cruiserweights coming up in weight against elite HWs haven't been much as of late, I don't see it any different. Povetkin is a far better boxer and has much better power than Huck - who's volume punching, and volume getting punched back attribute lend me to think he's in for a world of hurt against Sasha. I'll take the Russian via UD over 12 rounds. I'd say KO, but Povetkin hasn't been training properly and has had outside distractions with the whole Teddy Atlas saga.

Nathan Cleverly vs. Tommy Karpency
This is a gimmie fight for Clev after the war he went through with arch nemesis Tony Bellew. I don't give Tommy much of a chance. Clev is a far better boxer, can take some wicked shots, and is fighting at home. I'll take Clev via shutout UD. He may even stop him, but power is the only attribute Nathan lacks.

[Wadubbin]

Originally Posted by jkidd

Some awesome action this weekend... lets see the predictions!

Adrien Broner vs. Eloy Perez
I'll take Broner via TKO in the mid rounds. I don't think Perez has the power to get Broner's respect, and when he realizes that, he'll start really hammering down on Perez.

Marcos Maidana vs. Devon Alexander
Alexander has regressed considerably since his KO of Juan Urango (which seems like a decade ago now), arguably losing all 3 of his fights since (depending on how you view Kotelynik and Matthysse). Maidana, you know what you're going to get. He'll be coming for you all night long, and all it takes is one shot. Devon got hit way too much by the "other" Argentine bomber, I don't see this being any different. I'll take Maidana via TKO near round 8.

Alexander Povetkin vs. Marco Huck
Cruiserweights coming up in weight against elite HWs haven't been much as of late, I don't see it any different. Povetkin is a far better boxer and has much better power than Huck - who's volume punching, and volume getting punched back attribute lend me to think he's in for a world of hurt against Sasha. I'll take the Russian via UD over 12 rounds. I'd say KO, but Povetkin hasn't been training properly and has had outside distractions with the whole Teddy Atlas saga.

Nathan Cleverly vs. Tommy Karpency
This is a gimmie fight for Clev after the war he went through with arch nemesis Tony Bellew. I don't give Tommy much of a chance. Clev is a far better boxer, can take some wicked shots, and is fighting at home. I'll take Clev via shutout UD. He may even stop him, but power is the only attribute Nathan lacks.

I can't argue with any of your predictions.Though I could see Maidana/Alexander going the distance if Alexander uses his speed and movement to counter Maidana's straight ahead style.

[Flyers2001]

I agree, Broner figures Perez out and finishes him mid rounds.

The Maidana-Alexander fight I see different. I see it playing out a lot like the Khan-Maidana fight. Alexander is a boxer that has now been pushed to the corner. He has no more excuses about his recent performances. He will either go down early or he will scrap the whole way through. I see Alexander stocking up rounds early and Maidana making his late push, unable to knock Alexander out. Rememer this is only a 10 round fight. That plays to Alexander's advantage. I will take him in a tight dec. or draw. The only way maidana wins is by KO. After the fight Maidana will feel he was cheated once again.

[JKidd]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

I agree, Broner figures Perez out and finishes him mid rounds.

The Maidana-Alexander fight I see different. I see it playing out a lot like the Khan-Maidana fight. Alexander is a boxer that has now been pushed to the corner. He has no more excuses about his recent performances. He will either go down early or he will scrap the whole way through. I see Alexander stocking up rounds early and Maidana making his late push, unable to knock Alexander out. Rememer this is only a 10 round fight. That plays to Alexander's advantage. I will take him in a tight dec. or draw. The only way maidana wins is by KO. After the fight Maidana will feel he was cheated once again.

I completely forgot it was a 10 rounder... with Maidana's pension to start VERY slow, that could be a huge factor - especially if Devon sits on his punch and scores a knock down (as we've seen Chino go down on more than a few occasions).

I'll go under the notion that Chino comes out flying instead of slowly. I'm sure he knows its a ten rounder and will hopefully stomp on the gas instead of ease onto it.

Great night of FNF tomorrow and Showbox. Can't wait for those two to kick off an action packed weekend of fisticuffs.

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by jkidd

I completely forgot it was a 10 rounder... with Maidana's pension to start VERY slow, that could be a huge factor - especially if Devon sits on his punch and scores a knock down (as we've seen Chino go down on more than a few occasions).

I'll go under the notion that Chino comes out flying instead of slowly. I'm sure he knows its a ten rounder and will hopefully stomp on the gas instead of ease onto it.

Great night of FNF tomorrow and Showbox. Can't wait for those two to kick off an action packed weekend of fisticuffs.

You're right Maidana has a habit of going down early in fights. Its obviously not from a glass jaw or anything, but from his "jaw" warming up slowly. Many fighters smack themselves or almost punch themselves before a fight to loosen their "jaw/head" up. Kinda like stretching in a sense. Once they get hit a few times they are able to adjust and absorb. Thats why their are not a lot of "HUGE" ko's late in fights, but more the wear down tko's.

Think of the biggest bomb's lately, they have all come early. Donaire, Martinez, Pacquaio.

**Just read a John McCormick mailbag. Decent boxing guy, I don't always agree with him, but he has made valid points since I have been reading. Here he writes his prediciton for the Gamboa-Rios bout. I am not posting it just becasue i agree with it, but it explains everything I beleive much clearer than I can post.

I said it is a pick-em' fight, a fight in which there is no clear favorite and either man could win; a fight that boxing NEEDS. With that being said, styles make fights and I have to favor Gamboa to win the fight. Don't get me wrong, Brandon Rios is one hell of a fighter, but Gamboa's combination of speed, power, and athleticism will be his meal ticket. Sure, Gamboa hasn't been in there with anyone like Rios but at the same time, Rios hasn't been in there with anyone like Gamboa. Both men will be facing the biggest threats in their professional careers that night. I know that Rios' game plan will be to take all of Gamboa's shots, forfeit the early rounds and turn it up in the later rounds. Brandon has done that his entire career. However, Bam-Bam has showed that he can be out-boxed. Gamboa would need to use angles, speed, and combination pitching CONSISTENTLY all night and not let up. If he boxes smart, and his stamina is in check, I see him winning a decision by a wide margin or possibly stopping Rios later in the fight.

If you go through tons of mailbags and so called experts, I bet they are close to 50-50 on this fight, which is why it is good for boxing.

[Daaaa B's]

Originally Posted by Pauline135

Al Swearengen

Greatest television character ever but I'm not sure what he has to do with Boxing.

[JKidd]

Couple of big names added to the Gamboa vs. Rios card...

Mike Alvarado is returning. It was initially supposed to be against Breidis Prescott in a rematch of their awesome bout last year, but Prescott is going to search out other ventures. Then it was supposed to be Ruslan Provodnikov. But, that fight fell through. So they now have him returning against the guy who beat Ruslan, Mauricio Herrera.

Also added, former MW champ Kelly Pavlik. Rumored opponent is Scott Sigmon. Although that isn't for sure yet.

I'd love to see what Kelly has now that he's with Robert Garcia out in Oxnard.

An update on a fight we all thought was done... Peter Quillin vs. Winky Wright has fallen through. There is no explanation as to why, but the fight is completely off.

[JKidd]

Alexander Povetkin retains his title in a very fun to watch, very close MD.

I scored the fight even at 114-114. I'm shocked to see him get the nod in Huck's native Germany.

Povetkin is a joke of a champ though. He was gassed from the 5th on, and the entire fight kept bending over putting his head well below Huck's waist. It was beyond irritating to watch.

The ref was WAY too active as well. Anytime they got remotely close to one another, he was breaking them up - so there was no in fighting at all. He also not once warned Povetkin to keep his head up.