Lemieux vs. The Great One

[fansince65]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

yes he did and was a great player...

my top 5 are

1..gretzky/lucic (jk)
2. orr
2. howe
4. mario
5 bourque

does that really deserve the insults dude....cant you just make a point without being a dick...

and just so you know my very first bruins game i went to was when i was 13 and it was Marios first game ever...he scored on a breakway on his first shift

and yes the penguins did OWN the bruins in the early 90's but Mario had a great team around him...

stevens, jagr, coffey, barasso, francis, samuelson, mullen, errey, bourque,tocchett,trottier, loney,the other samuelsson..

We almost agree on the top 5 , how does this look to you ?

!. Orr
2. Howe
3. Messier
4. Richard
5. Bourque

On second thought we don't agree on the top 5 at all ..

[clydefrog]

Originally Posted by fansince65

We almost agree on the top 5 , how does this look to you ?

!. Orr
2. Howe
3. Messier
4. Richard
5. Bourque

On second thought we don't agree on the top 5 at all ..

to me Messier was the MOST OVERRATED player in the history of the NHL. he had a rep as being "supertough" yet he never won a fight. He came to a stacked Rangers team and had a great playoff run, but he was maybe top 50 IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xT66-YmlRo

Richard I have as number 6..He had a monster shot and was a great player, but also played when goalies wore no masks and barley had more equipment than skaters and usaly werent the best players on the team.

How you cannot have a guy who ownes just about every record that matter not in your top 5 baffles me, but hey its your list so.

[StealinUrCar06]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

realy? Mike Bossy no doubt was one one the greatest GOALSCORERS of all time, but Im not sure if was a a complete player as Mario or Gretzky..

You should start a thread "best pure scorers of all time"..he would probably get my vote for number 2 at least..

Yeah probably true. Gretzky was definately more of a playmaker and his assists numbers show it. Its just when everyone talks about him the all time goal amount always comes up. I just wanna see what would have happened say bossy never got hurt tying his skates and stayed at his pace. Gretz played 1,487 games with 894 goals, Bossy played 752 games with 573. Had he played all those games gretzky did that 894 would be obliterated.

[flex_buff_chest]

Originally Posted by StealinUrCar06

Yeah probably true. Gretzky was definately more of a playmaker and his assists numbers show it. Its just when everyone talks about him the all time goal amount always comes up. I just wanna see what would have happened say bossy never got hurt tying his skates and stayed at his pace. Gretz played 1,487 games with 894 goals, Bossy played 752 games with 573. Had he played all those games gretzky did that 894 would be obliterated.

Thats just a guess. Maybe as the goalies were getting better Bossy would have trouble.

It's like taking Gretzky's numbers halfway through his career and saying that we would double them in the second half.

Compare the first ten years of both of their careers.

G B

51 53
55 69
92 51
71 68
87 64
73 60
52 51
62 58
40 61
54 38
637 573

776 GP 752 GP
Who knows what would have happened to Bossy? Maybe he would have kept on the same pace or he may have slowed down as Like Gretzky did as well.

All these "if he would have played longer" ideas are all well and good, but he didn't.

[fansince65]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

to me Messier was the MOST OVERRATED player in the history of the NHL. he had a rep as being "supertough" yet he never won a fight. He came to a stacked Rangers team and had a great playoff run, but he was maybe top 50 IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xT66-YmlRo

Richard I have as number 6..He had a monster shot and was a great player, but also played when goalies wore no masks and barley had more equipment than skaters and usaly werent the best players on the team.

How you cannot have a guy who ownes just about every record that matter not in your top 5 baffles me, but hey its your list so.

I made a bet with a co-worker that Gretzky would never win another Stanley Cup when he was traded to the Kings But Messier would , when Gretzky retired I collected my bet , enough said !!!!

[pens33]

Originally Posted by fansince65

I made a bet with a co-worker that Gretzky would never win another Stanley Cup when he was traded to the Kings But Messier would , when Gretzky retired I collected my bet , enough said !!!!

If you think Mark Messier was a better hockey player than Wayne Gretzky, then you're on crack, plain and simple.

[fightingfan]

isnt part of being a great athlete being able to stay healthy ? these what ifs about lemieux are retarded. the great one was the best hands down. someone stated it before he had that 6th sense. he was always in the right place at the right time.

[fansince65]

Originally Posted by pens33

If you think Mark Messier was a better hockey player than Wayne Gretzky, then you're on crack, plain and simple.

I don't think he was I know he was !!!!

Give me a team of Messier's and I will beat your team of Gretzky's every day of the week , Mess was more of an all round player then Gretz ever thought of being or ever could be , the best scoring machine that ever lived I will give you that , but all round player , NEVER !!!!

[clydefrog]

Originally Posted by fansince65

I don't think he was I know he was !!!!

Give me a team of Messier's and I will beat your team of Gretzky's every day of the week , Mess was more of an all round player then Gretz ever thought of being or ever could be , the best scoring machine that ever lived I will give you that , but all round player , NEVER !!!!

Ya this guy.....lol



Is that the real Gary Coleman or a puppet....

"Watch u talkin bout, Moose"

[Sam1410]

Originally Posted by fansince65

I made a bet with a co-worker that Gretzky would never win another Stanley Cup when he was traded to the Kings But Messier would , when Gretzky retired I collected my bet , enough said !!!!

Not to derail this thread too much, because it is about Mario and Wayne not Messier but I have to disagree with you that Messier was a better player.

That is a stacked bet and your buddy was an idiot for taking it. First off, hockey is a team sport and you simply can't win by yourself. Secondly, Messier was playing on a team that had just won 4 cups in 5 years, Gretzky was traded to a franchise that had never been to finals in its history. IMO Gretzky never played with the talent that Mess had around him on that Oilers team.

Even when Mess went to NY he was still playing with Leetch, Lowe, and Zubov on the point, he had Richter in net and was playing with very good players like Graves, Larmer, Kovalev, Tikk, and Glen Anderson. With much less talent around him Mess couldn't do anything with the Canucks or back with the Rangers.

I look at it like this - I don't think the Oilers win those cups if you take Wayne and his 180-215 points off those team. I do think they still win them without Messier and his excellent, but easier to replace IMO, two way play.

I don't think that Mess was overrated, the Hockey News had him at 12th alltime and that sounds about right to me. One of the best ever, but no way was he ahead of Gretzky....

Edit: I just did a little looking at playoff performance to see how Mess stacked up. Well, he played in 30 more playoff games and Wayne is 35 points behind him. Of course that is in assists v. total points for Mess. Wayne has almost 100 more points in 30 less games.

[fightingfan]

numbers dont lie just look at the stats that the great obne had. how can u argue with that?

[Churla27]

This is what made Lemieux amazing:

1988-89
GP-76 G-85 A-114 P-199 PIM-100

Imagine what Lemieux would've done had he not spent that much time in the box.

[flex_buff_chest]

Originally Posted by Churla27

This is what made Lemieux amazing:

1988-89
GP-76 G-85 A-114 P-199 PIM-100

Imagine what Lemieux would've done had he not spent that much time in the box.

This doesn't really make sense. It's not like he played 60 minutes a game and this took away 100 minutes of playing time.

Most likely he made most of the time in the box in the same game.

[Word]

Coulda - woulda - shoulda.

The stats are the stats.

Trying to claim that a healthy Mario would have broken Gretzky's records is beyond pointless. The fact remains is he didn't, he wasn't, and it is over.

In a fairy tale world, if you want to play the coulda woulda shoulda game, then Mario could easily have broken all records as long as he was the only dude on the ice.

[Boogeyman2383]

The Great One is the best period.