Lemieux vs. The Great One

[Isles4life]

Originally Posted by Word

Yes, he does it as a coach. Show me a coach that DOESN'T whine. Babcock did it before the series with the ducks even got started.

It is his role as a coach. Just the same as it is the role of the captain on the ice.

So it comes down to how many times did Gretzky whine on, or off the ice, about something to do with him and not being able to skate around without any attention at all?

Usually, anyone who tried to follow him was embarassed by Gretz.

So while I'd agree that it is part of the job of the captain to advocate for his team with the officials, how come we don't see every captain labeled as a whiner? Some guys seem to be able to do it in a way that doesn't look or sound like they're having a temper tantrum.

[Word]

Originally Posted by Isles4life

So while I'd agree that it is part of the job of the captain to advocate for his team with the officials, how come we don't see every captain labeled as a whiner? Some guys seem to be able to do it in a way that doesn't look or sound like they're having a temper tantrum.

Because most captains aren't scoring over 200 points in a season, or 50 goals in 39 games.

EVERYONE except an Oiler loved to hate Gretzky. He embarrassed goalies, defensemen, and everyone else in the league.

Imagine being a fan of the precious islanders and having Gretzky end your dynasty, starting a new dynasty.

People everywhere were saying everything they could to reduce that brilliant shine he had. The ONLY thing they could attack was his "whining". I doubt that he did it any more or less than any other captain out there...the only difference was his skills made him a focus.

He certainly did it less than Mario. Funny how Gretz gets labelled but Mario doesn't...

[clydefrog]

this arguement is stupid...

the question was "if mario was healthy would he have beaten gretz records"

not who had better players, who who bigger, who was better?

if you look at it logicaly the number dont lie...

the answer has to be no...

[Rugged]

Originally Posted by Word

He embarrassed goalies, defensemen, and everyone else in the league.

No one embarrassed them better than Lemieux. He made goalies look like they were little kids most of the time.

[Killah_punk]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

this arguement is stupid...

the question was "if mario was healthy would he have beaten gretz records"

not who had better players, who who bigger, who was better?

if you look at it logicaly the number dont lie...

the answer has to be no...

Well the numbers say if Mario played as many games a Gretzky he would of scored more goals then 894.

[clydefrog]

Originally Posted by Killah_punk

Well the numbers say if Mario played as many games a Gretzky he would of scored more goals then 894.

goals yes but not points no...

[Killah_punk]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

goals yes but not points no...

No but he would of had only 60 points less, which is pretty remarkable considering when Mario first got on the Pens they were the worst team in the NHL and were horrible for Mario's first 4 or 5 seasons. So to say there not comparable would be a joke. Mario was the better goal scorer while Gretzky was the better playmaker. Both players along with Orr are in a class of there own.

[mattyp]

Originally Posted by Tucker_316

Mario is so much more impressive. Look at those ppg...Mario for his first 6 seasons had no support or help at all really. The Pens were god awful. In fact, Mario allowed total chumps to record 100 point seasons. Which also proves how much easier it was to score in the 80's..where Wayne dominated. Add to the fact Wayne had so much talent around him that could also score 100 plus points a season, at that time, even without him. When you play with Kurri, Messier, Anderson, Coffey among others for that long, and take the skill Wayne had already, with the style of play in the 80's...of course he was gonna record all those points. I believe had Mario played on the same roster, Mario would have recorded better totals.
Mario finally gets his support in the early 90s, but after about 3 seasons plus one major injury and his bout with cancer, the league got so much more difficult to produce points in. It was a miracle practically that guys like Mario and Jagr could come near or top 150 points.

Mario was the man.

You say Lemieux allowed chumps to score 100 points, well maybe if Gretzky wasn't on the Oiler team those people you mentioned wouldn't be who they are today, Maybe Gretzky "allowed" them to get all of the points they did

[Tucker_316]

Originally Posted by mattyp

You say Lemieux allowed chumps to score 100 points, well maybe if Gretzky wasn't on the Oiler team those people you mentioned wouldn't be who they are today, Maybe Gretzky "allowed" them to get all of the points they did

I dont know dude, there's a big difference in skill and talent between guys like Messier, Kurri and Anderson as compared to Rob Brown, Dan Quinn and Cunneyworth.

[clydefrog]

Originally Posted by Tucker_316

I dont know dude, there's a big difference in skill and talent between guys like Messier, Kurri and Anderson as compared to Rob Brown, Dan Quinn and Cunneyworth.

but lemiuex had seasons with kevin Stevens, jaramir jagr, marc recchi, ron francis, paul coffey...

while gretzky was on some bad la kings and st louis blues teams...

just to be fair.

[Killah_punk]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

but lemiuex had seasons with kevin Stevens, jaramir jagr, marc recchi, ron francis, paul coffey...

while gretzky was on some bad la kings and st louis blues teams...

just to be fair.

He had Lucky Luc and Hull in LA and St. Louis both players scored over 600 NHL goals.

[clydefrog]

Originally Posted by Killah_punk

He had Lucky Luc and Hull in LA and St. Louis both players scored over 600 NHL goals.

he played 5 seasons with Robitalie..in 95 luc was traded tp Pitt to play with mario..

he never played with hull in st louis.. ( hull was injured and gretzky signed with the ranger in the off season)

[Tucker_316]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

but lemiuex had seasons with kevin Stevens, jaramir jagr, marc recchi, ron francis, paul coffey...

while gretzky was on some bad la kings and st louis blues teams...

just to be fair.

Yes, but by that time Wayne had already had a decade worth of points that he built up in an era where scoring was ridiculously high. He never had to struggle for that support either. When Mario finally got around to having all his support, he started taking over the league. But it didnt last long with his missing seasons and injury woes, on top of the clutch and grab era begining.
That's all I'm saying.

[knucklesamwitch]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

Gretzky came into the league and dominated at 6' 168 lbs.....

Mario was 6'4" 22lbs and whined , bitched and even quit cuz he felt the rules were not to his advantage...

Mario isnt even a top 3 player in IMO....

You're a fuvcking iiot and clearly talking out of your ass. In fact im willing to bet your clown ass has never seen a Mario game live. oh and mario OWNED mr Bourque over and over and over...

[clydefrog]

Originally Posted by knucklesamwitch

You're a fuvcking iiot and clearly talking out of your ass. In fact im willing to bet your clown ass has never seen a Mario game live. oh and mario OWNED mr Bourque over and over and over...

yes he did and was a great player...

my top 5 are

1..gretzky/lucic (jk)
2. orr
2. howe
4. mario
5 bourque

does that really deserve the insults dude....cant you just make a point without being a dick...

and just so you know my very first bruins game i went to was when i was 13 and it was Marios first game ever...he scored on a breakway on his first shift

and yes the penguins did OWN the bruins in the early 90's but Mario had a great team around him...

stevens, jagr, coffey, barasso, francis, samuelson, mullen, errey, bourque,tocchett,trottier, loney,the other samuelsson..