Lemieux vs. The Great One

[flex_buff_chest]

Originally Posted by mattyp

All this talk of Lemieux was a better goal scorer and overall better player, What year was it when Lemieux got 92 goals and 212 points? oh that's right, he didn't. Discussion over

Lemieux did have 199 points one year and battled more injuries then Gretzky did.

I believe that Lemieux was far more skilled then Gretzky. Gretzky on the other hand had that damn 6th sense that made up for his lack of skill.

[clydefrog]

Originally Posted by pens33

Gretzky came into this league and dominated, but he was never touched. Ever.

Mario had to deal with a lot of sh1t because he was so big.

To say he has an ounce of "quit" in him shows that you're ignorant, and an as*hole.

"Back problems first emerged in the late 1980s. Lemieux had a herniated disk removed in 1990, underwent further back surgery in 1993 and suffered from a rare bone infection. Also in 1993 he was diagnosed with Hodgkin's Disease. Returning to the Penguins on the day he completed radiation treatment, Lemieux won the NHL scoring title despite missing two months of the season. Chronic injuries persisted for the rest of his career. An irregular heartbeat, diagnosed in 2005, led to his final retirement."

BULLPOOP...Mario constantly threatened to retire numerous times because of "the hooking and holding"...

the last resort of an ignorant debate....name calling..

"By the 1990s, obstructionism had surpassed intimidation as the most effective way for mediocre teams and players to compete in a league diluted by expansion. Minor hockey followed the NHL's lead in stressing defensive strategies. Children eight years old were taught the neutral-zone trap and left-side lock. Tactics became more important than creativity and learning skills.

In the NHL, teams became so proficient at neutralizing skilled players that the league's top star, Mario Lemieux, finally quit.

"All the interference, the holding, the hooking -- it doesn't allow the good players to flourish," he told reporters in Toronto a few months ago. "It's the main reason I didn't return."

a direct qoute from Mario himself from the book called a "game in crisis". Written in 1998 by William Houston.

posting opinions as facts is ignorant...you sir are the a**hole and owe me an apology...

[brandonh19]

Lemieux never played a full season, in 92 93 he only played 60 games in an 84 game season and had 160 points. What if he was heathy that whole year would he have surpassed gretz, most likely. The year he had 199 he played 74 gameds in an 80 game season would he have netted 215 probably not but would he have hit the 200 mark yes. Lemieux would own the record book if he could have been healthy his whole carrer.

[clydefrog]

Originally Posted by brandonh19

Lemieux never played a full season, in 92 93 he only played 60 games in an 84 game season and had 160 points. What if he was heathy that whole year would he have surpassed gretz, most likely. The year he had 199 he played 74 gameds in an 80 game season would he have netted 215 probably not but would he have hit the 200 mark yes. Lemieux would own the record book if he could have been healthy his whole carrer.

its kinda hard to use the what if here dude....what if cam neely didnt have a knee problem...he score 50 goals in only 49 games. in 1993..on that pace he would have had 84 goals and and 123 points...that would have been the 2n
d highest goal total ever...

[brandonh19]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

its kinda hard to use the what if here dude....what if cam neely didnt have a knee problem...he score 50 goals in only 49 games. in 1993..on that pace he would have had 84 goals and and 123 points...that would have been the 2n
d highest goal total ever...

True, i dno what if is always used, but if it's right or not is the question. Cause im convinced Neely would have had a high end of season goal total if healthy as well.

[PaulAbbott]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

BULLPOOP...Mario constantly threatened to retire numerous times because of "the hooking and holding"...

the last resort of an ignorant debate....name calling..

"By the 1990s, obstructionism had surpassed intimidation as the most effective way for mediocre teams and players to compete in a league diluted by expansion. Minor hockey followed the NHL's lead in stressing defensive strategies. Children eight years old were taught the neutral-zone trap and left-side lock. Tactics became more important than creativity and learning skills.

In the NHL, teams became so proficient at neutralizing skilled players that the league's top star, Mario Lemieux, finally quit.

"All the interference, the holding, the hooking -- it doesn't allow the good players to flourish," he told reporters in Toronto a few months ago. "It's the main reason I didn't return."

a direct qoute from Mario himself from the book called a "game in crisis". Written in 1998 by William Houston.

posting opinions as facts is ignorant...you sir are the a**hole and owe me an apology...

I guess I will wait for you to get a disease in your hand and tell people you stopped posting here because of the Penguin fans.

[pens33]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

BULLPOOP...Mario constantly threatened to retire numerous times because of "the hooking and holding"...

But he didn't. That book was written in 1998. He played until 2005-2006.

And he had every right to complain about clutching and grabbing, because it was ridiculous back then. Even from a hf.com point of view, there wasn't even any room for big hits, because the game was so f*ckin slow and boring.

[mattyp]

Originally Posted by Killah_punk

Lets see Gretzky averaged a goal 0.60 games Lemieux scored a goal every 0.75 seems to me there is an valid argument when Lemieuxs scoring average was higher then Gretzky. Waynes point average per games play is slightly higher, Mario was better until he returned in his final comeback.

Lemieux also played 572 games less. I took the last 562 games off of Greyzky's career and then counted his goal average and it was also 0.75 so I don't think there is a valid argument there.And Gretzky's PPG in the same amount of games as Mario is 2.32 while Mario's is 1.88. So there is really no discussion here of who the best player is IMO

[clydefrog]

Originally Posted by pens33

But he didn't. That book was written in 1998. He played until 2005-2006.

And he had every right to complain about clutching and grabbing, because it was ridiculous back then. Even from a hf.com point of view, there wasn't even any room for big hits, because the game was so f*ckin slow and boring.

So why didnt every player quit then?

I never said he didnt....try reading a post before commenting on it newb.. i said he quit because he didnt like the hooking and holding...someone called me a liar and and assh*le....

so AS USAUAL i proved him wrong with FACTS and a DIRECT QUOTE from Mario himself why he quit...

loose the Mario underoos and just accept the facts newb...

the sun will still come out tommorrow i promise..

[clydefrog]

Originally Posted by PaulAbbott

I guess I will wait for you to get a disease in your hand and tell people you stopped posting here because of the Penguin fans.

wow go back and try agian NEWB...

its not my fault Mario said that..

dont kill the messanger....

your post makes absoloutly no sence....

its called a FACT..look it up d-bag

[clydefrog]

Even if you took away all Wayne Gretzky's goals and just went by assists he is still the all time points leader...

and the 'what if's" about injuries dont count...

Bobby Orr effecivly was done at 28...if he had stayed healthy he would have most likely been the ALL_TIME points leader....

Gretzky had 1963 assists

mario had 1723 pts total

case closed....

[Word]

Originally Posted by brandonh19

Lemieux never played a full season, in 92 93 he only played 60 games in an 84 game season and had 160 points. What if he was heathy that whole year would he have surpassed gretz, most likely. The year he had 199 he played 74 gameds in an 80 game season would he have netted 215 probably not but would he have hit the 200 mark yes. Lemieux would own the record book if he could have been healthy his whole carrer.

Ya, well if Gretzky was the only guy on the ice, he would have netted like a million goals in a season.

Oh, or better, if Gretzky never got old, stayed in his prime, he would have had an infinite amount of assists because he would play forever.

Injuries are a part of the game. Things are what they are. And both were excellent players. The difference, as mentioned, is while 1 whined due to his role as a captain (and was successful at it), the other whined about opposing teams not letting him score at will.

Originally Posted by pens33

But he didn't. That book was written in 1998. He played until 2005-2006.

And he had every right to complain about clutching and grabbing, because it was ridiculous back then. Even from a hf.com point of view, there wasn't even any room for big hits, because the game was so f*ckin slow and boring.

Um, Gretzky played until 1999. He didn't make that statement. Which goes to my point. 1 whined due to his role as captain. When he wasn't captain, he didn't whine. He just went about playing the game. When he retired, he never said it was because players were clutching and grabbing, not letting him score at will...it was that the players are younger, faster, bigger, and he is getting old and not able to play at his level anymore. NOTE: HE ADMITTED HE COULD NOT PLAY AT HIS NORMAL LEVEL. Not blaming anyone else, making the statement HE was no longer able.

Mario on the other hand, kept threatening retirement because of others. Gretzky never did that. Mario always blamed others, not his own limitations. Mario's whining was always about himself not being allowed to do what he wanted to do.

HUGE difference there.

[mckendo83]

Originally Posted by Killah_punk

Lets see Gretzky averaged a goal 0.60 games Lemieux scored a goal every 0.75 seems to me there is an valid argument when Lemieuxs scoring average was higher then Gretzky. Waynes point average per games play is slightly higher, Mario was better until he returned in his final comeback.

focus on each of their PRIMES... not when gretzky was winding down... take both guys in their primes, maybe top 5 seasons...its not even close.

[mckendo83]

its been mentioned before - the fact that gretzky has more assists than any player in history has points- and by a wide margin... why is this even a debate.

[pens33]

Originally Posted by mckendo83

its been mentioned before - the fact that gretzky has more assists than any player in history has points- and by a wide margin... why is this even a debate.

It's a debate because Mario was more talented, and his "prime" was full of injuries. If you want to look at the stats and conclude that Gretzky was the greatest then fine, but the first post of this thread asks "Do you feel if Lemuix remained healthy he could have atleast had a SHOT at some of Gretzky's untouchable records?"... The answer to that is yes.

clyde, try using the word "newb" a few more times. It makes you look awesome.