Lemieux vs. The Great One

[PaulAbbott]

Hey everyone, I am relatively new here, so i don't know (yet I guess should assume) a topic like this has been made all ready, but whatever. Do you feel if Lemuix remained healthy he could have atleast had a SHOT at some of Gretzky's untouchable records?

Also, how pissed do you think he was when he didn't eclipse the 200 point mark?

[Word]

I may piss off a lot of Mario fans here, and the entire province of Quebec, but while Mario had tons of talent, I feel he whined way way too much.

His size, not just height and weight, and he would constantly bitch and whine if someone would hook, hold, tug or do anything to interfere with him.

Holy crap Mario...you were the biggest guy on the ice most times. Deal with it.

[clydefrog]

Gretzky came into the league and dominated at 6' 168 lbs.....

Mario was 6'4" 22lbs and whined , bitched and even quit cuz he felt the rules were not to his advantage...

Mario isnt even a top 3 player in IMO....

[Killah_punk]

I guess everyone forgets Gretzky whined too.

[PaulAbbott]

I didn't watch hockey back then, but I don't believe Mario quit because the game wasn't to his suit.... I believe he got a disease (Hodgkins) which destroyed his lower back. That doesn't say quit to me, that says he HAS to retire.

Also, EVERYONE whines at some point, people forget that for some reason because some players do it more often (ala Sidney Crosby). Coaches cry when someone gets a bad goal, Players cry when stuff doesn't go their way, goalies cry when there are people in their crease. EVERYONE DOES IT! People cry in baseball, hockey, cricket, and probably even ice curling. Get over it....

I know I haven't been a member here very long, but it seems like people are one way or the other about everything. He's good, he's not good, he cries, he doesn't cry. Is there no one who can find anything reasonably good and bad about players? I love Sidney Crosby, he whines sometimes, but thats counteracted by his awareness. I love Marc-Andre Fleury, he flops sometimes, but he also makes miraculous saves. I love Philadelphia, oh wait, no I don't.

Not trying to start a war of words, but honestly people.

[pens33]

Originally Posted by clydefrog

Gretzky came into the league and dominated at 6' 168 lbs.....

Mario was 6'4" 22lbs and whined , bitched and even quit cuz he felt the rules were not to his advantage...

Mario isnt even a top 3 player in IMO....

Gretzky came into this league and dominated, but he was never touched. Ever.

Mario had to deal with a lot of sh1t because he was so big.

To say he has an ounce of "quit" in him shows that you're ignorant, and an as*hole.

"Back problems first emerged in the late 1980s. Lemieux had a herniated disk removed in 1990, underwent further back surgery in 1993 and suffered from a rare bone infection. Also in 1993 he was diagnosed with Hodgkin's Disease. Returning to the Penguins on the day he completed radiation treatment, Lemieux won the NHL scoring title despite missing two months of the season. Chronic injuries persisted for the rest of his career. An irregular heartbeat, diagnosed in 2005, led to his final retirement."

[Tucker_316]

Mario was the more skilled player with a better overall game and package, no doubting that. Wayne played fully healthy during a longer period of time in the 80's on a stacked team that also helped him a lot.

Wayne is second to Mario.

[pens33]

Originally Posted by PaulAbbott

I believe he got a disease (Hodgkins) which destroyed his lower back.

Just to clear things up, Hodgkins disease is a type of cancer. He was diagnosed with this in '93. His severe back problems were a completely separate thing, which plagued him through his entire career, and began well before winning the back-to-back Cups.

[PaulAbbott]

Ah, Okay, thanks for clearing that up Buddy. I was only four when they won their first cup, hence why I don't know much about that time.

[Word]

Originally Posted by Killah_punk

I guess everyone forgets Gretzky whined too.

Absolutely.

And I don't mind whining of a certain kind. As a captain, your job is to whine about calls, to get the focus on the other team.

The whining I am talking about is crying publicly to the league to change rules because this guy or that guy is focusing on you and making it difficult for you to play.

I don't recall any whining by gretzky like that. Never heard, "Um, when I set up my office behind the net, those defensemen just focus on me too much and I can no longer score or assist at will anymore..."

Originally Posted by pens33

Gretzky came into this league and dominated, but he was never touched. Ever.

He was, but they answered for it by Semenko, and others.

Who did Mario have? Mario was as big, if not bigger, than many enforcers.

Originally Posted by pens33

Mario had to deal with a lot of sh1t because he was so big.

Because the enforcer didn't/wouldn't?


(while both were great players, another difference I think is how they left. Gretzky left stating he was old, couldn't do the same as he used to, that the players were all bigger, faster, stronger. Gives credit for others, discusses his age and limitations. Mario though seemed to have left with the position that the league won't allow him to score 100 goals a game, that it should be changed, etc.).

[Machinehead2k5]

Originally Posted by Word

(while both were great players, another difference I think is how they left. Gretzky left stating he was old, couldn't do the same as he used to, that the players were all bigger, faster, stronger. Gives credit for others, discusses his age and limitations. Mario though seemed to have left with the position that the league won't allow him to score 100 goals a game, that it should be changed, etc.).

Mario complained about the clutching/holding/slashing that interrupted the flow of the game. Half the time you would think they were playing football on ice than hockey. Look at most mid to late 90s games. People are draped all over the stars, except for Gretz who somehow was never touched except by Broten.

If it wasn't for Mario the game wouldn't be as open as it is now. You wouldn't be able to see Sid The Kid, Ovechkin, Toews, Kane, etc. dance around people b/c they would be tackled for the most part and no penalty be called. His "whining" as some of you have put it, brought back the skating aspect of the game and forced new players to learn to skate better.

[pens33]

Originally Posted by Word

He was, but they answered for it by Semenko, and others.

Who did Mario have? Mario was as big, if not bigger, than many enforcers.

I don't get your point. Are you giving Wayne credit for having a wall of enforcers on his team? And you're faulting Mario for not being able to deal with it himself?

[Word]

Originally Posted by pens33

I don't get your point. Are you giving Wayne credit for having a wall of enforcers on his team? And you're faulting Mario for not being able to deal with it himself?

Not exactly faulting Mario for it. As a star, even if he is bigger than everyone else, he shouldn't have to answer the call. That is why you have an enforcer.

Does Wayne get credit for having protection? No, the GM does...although Wayne did request McSorley be a part of the trade to LA.

I like both of them. Entertaining to watch. But between the 2, Wayne wasn't one to go public and whine about the clutch and grab...and he endured it just as Mario did.

[mattyp]

All this talk of Lemieux was a better goal scorer and overall better player, What year was it when Lemieux got 92 goals and 212 points? oh that's right, he didn't. Discussion over

[Killah_punk]

Originally Posted by mattyp

All this talk of Lemieux was a better goal scorer and overall better player, What year was it when Lemieux got 92 goals and 212 points? oh that's right, he didn't. Discussion over

Lets see Gretzky averaged a goal 0.60 games Lemieux scored a goal every 0.75 seems to me there is an valid argument when Lemieuxs scoring average was higher then Gretzky. Waynes point average per games play is slightly higher, Mario was better until he returned in his final comeback.