Who was the biggest coward?

[brad houghton]

Originally Posted by spiderarms

GARY BETTMAN.

He is a man who doesn't understand the sport that he is governing and is pandering to all these "goody two shoes" who want to purify the sport of hockey by making it "violence free". If he had guts, he would have a feel and passion for the game, know that it has a tremendous history and loyal following and BUILD ON IT! Instead, he cowardly appeases the NON FANS of the game!

spidy and Jack you are spot on

the base of the sport was perfect and the run up to about 1993 was golden.....i agree expansion to 5hitty markets....and trying to appeal to the non-hockey fan by neutering the game....leaving in just enough staged fighting by non hockey playing goons off the face off to keep the old gaurd appeased for a while in transition until we can get fighting out of hockey altogether.....wow has that been a brilliant strategy

i would be more in favor of the NASCAR model......a powerful regional sport that you absolutely stick to the core of what makes it great and keep refining it and marketing it until your national (and in hockey's case international) TV audiences are drawn in to your regional gem. i love English Barclay's league Football (Soccer) and they draw fans from all over the world to watch their game.

i know it is not fair to compare Hockey to Soccer which is monster sport in the world but the reference to international audiences are fair....i think we see on this site that there are European fans of hockey fighting

i do believe the NASCAR model is very relevant....stick to your knitting and they will come.....hockey was great in the 70's and 80's...even up to the early 90's and there were lots of Euro's playing then.....you just need a comish with the vision to let hockey be violent and fast....not fricken ringette games....drop out of some of these weak markets....retract if you have to....get back to your core....re-brand....add water....let it grow...then you can take advantage of new media reach.....internet.....all those things that kept the great brand of the NHL in the 80's down!! there is no doubt that marketing and "BRANDING" were huge issues in the 1980's as well....NASCAR had about the same audiance numbers back then and look what their "brand trajectory" has been compared to the identity crisis otherwise known as the NHL.....its just poor leadership and a terrible vision of how to grow the brand

oh nothing like a useless rant on a friday morning before work

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by brad houghton

spidy and Jack you are spot on

the base of the sport was perfect and the run up to about 1993 was golden.....i agree expansion to 5hitty markets....and trying to appeal to the non-hockey fan by neutering the game....leaving in just enough staged fighting by non hockey playing goons off the face off to keep the old gaurd appeased for a while in transition until we can get fighting out of hockey all together.....wow has that been a brilliant strategy

i would be more in favor of the NASCAR model......a powerful regional sport that you absolutely stick to the core of what makes it great and keep refining it and marketing it until your national (and in hockey's case international) TV audiences are drawn in to your regional gem. i love English Barclay's league Football (Soccer) and they draw fans from all over the world to watch their game.

i know it is not fair to compare Hockey to Soccer which is monster sport in the world but the referance to international audiances are fair....i think we see on this site that there are European fans of hockey fighting

i do believe the NASCAR model is very relavent....stick to your knitting and they will come.....hockey was great in the 70's and 80's...even up to the early 90's and there were lots of Euro's playing then.....you just need a comish with the vision to let hockey be violent and fast....not fricken ringette games....drop out of some of these weak markets....retract if you have to....get back to your core....re-brand....add water....let it grow...then you can take advantage of new media reach.....internet.....all those things that kept a great brand of the NHL in the 80's more regional

of nothing like a useless rant on a friday morning before work

There were 3 clips posted in the last few days that showed Dave Brown and Jay Wells fight 3 times in one game if I looked at the clips right. In one of the clips, some woman in the crowd was shown enjoying the fights tremendously! The Flyers as Gene Hart always pointed out almost always had the highest road attendance because people love the fights. Playoff hockey used to be so awesome because of the fights! A perfect example was the 1987/88 playoffs. My Rangers didn't make the playoffs losing out to the upstart Devils and that Devils club was so fun to watch that playoff year!
WHY?
Tons of fights and great rock em sock em hockey!
I hate the Islanders but that first Islander squad to make the playoffs in 1974/75 was so fun to watch in the playoffs. Now remember that those rat bastids knocked out my Rangers in a first round 3 game series at 9 seconds of OT in game 3 on a JP Parise goal and yet, their games against the Pens and Flyers were great to watch!
WHY?
Great fights and rock em sock em playoff hockey and now what do we see?
Bullsh*t Bettman playoff hockey with no fights or brawls and few goals!
What a sh*t product today and even with a few fights during the regular season, you still get the asstight media types crying about the violence in hockey!
What a bunch of jackoffs!

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by brad houghton

spidy and Jack you are spot on

the base of the sport was perfect and the run up to about 1993 was golden.....i agree expansion to 5hitty markets....and trying to appeal to the non-hockey fan by neutering the game....leaving in just enough staged fighting by non hockey playing goons off the face off to keep the old gaurd appeased for a while in transition until we can get fighting out of hockey altogether.....wow has that been a brilliant strategy

i would be more in favor of the NASCAR model......a powerful regional sport that you absolutely stick to the core of what makes it great and keep refining it and marketing it until your national (and in hockey's case international) TV audiences are drawn in to your regional gem. i love English Barclay's league Football (Soccer) and they draw fans from all over the world to watch their game.

i know it is not fair to compare Hockey to Soccer which is monster sport in the world but the reference to international audiences are fair....i think we see on this site that there are European fans of hockey fighting

i do believe the NASCAR model is very relevant....stick to your knitting and they will come.....hockey was great in the 70's and 80's...even up to the early 90's and there were lots of Euro's playing then.....you just need a comish with the vision to let hockey be violent and fast....not fricken ringette games....drop out of some of these weak markets....retract if you have to....get back to your core....re-brand....add water....let it grow...then you can take advantage of new media reach.....internet.....all those things that kept the great brand of the NHL in the 80's down!! there is no doubt that marketing and "BRANDING" were huge issues in the 1980's as well....NASCAR had about the same audiance numbers back then and look what their "brand trajectory" has been compared to the identity crisis otherwise known as the NHL.....its just poor leadership and a terrible vision of how to grow the brand

oh nothing like a useless rant on a friday morning before work

I should also add that even though I am sort of praising the Flyers of yesteryear for great road attendance because of the fights, it was over the top antics from guys like Schultz who took an hour to get into the box and always had the need to have the spotlight on him and act like a goddamn caveman that brought the media crying types to the forefront!
There were always some media as*holes like after the Green/Maki incident in 1969 whining about the violence in hockey but it never became a major issue until Schultz and his over the top antics and the Flyers gang mentality! Their brawl in the 1986 playoffs with Montreal caused the media to go nuts and the Brown over the top crosschecks added to it!
There were a few other incidents like the Maloney/Glennie incident or the Forbes/Boucha incident but Schultz and his caveman act really allowed the pansy media types to get the ball rolling and when Bettman came to town he really was with pansy media types!
If you recall the year before Bettman came to town, Gil Stein was running the NHL and sort of applauded the 2nd Probert/Domi fight that everyone was looking forward to seeing! Then here came Bettman to ruin hockey forever!

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by brad houghton

spidy and Jack you are spot on

the base of the sport was perfect and the run up to about 1993 was golden.....i agree expansion to 5hitty markets....and trying to appeal to the non-hockey fan by neutering the game....leaving in just enough staged fighting by non hockey playing goons off the face off to keep the old gaurd appeased for a while in transition until we can get fighting out of hockey altogether.....wow has that been a brilliant strategy

i would be more in favor of the NASCAR model......a powerful regional sport that you absolutely stick to the core of what makes it great and keep refining it and marketing it until your national (and in hockey's case international) TV audiences are drawn in to your regional gem. i love English Barclay's league Football (Soccer) and they draw fans from all over the world to watch their game.

i know it is not fair to compare Hockey to Soccer which is monster sport in the world but the reference to international audiences are fair....i think we see on this site that there are European fans of hockey fighting

i do believe the NASCAR model is very relevant....stick to your knitting and they will come.....hockey was great in the 70's and 80's...even up to the early 90's and there were lots of Euro's playing then.....you just need a comish with the vision to let hockey be violent and fast....not fricken ringette games....drop out of some of these weak markets....retract if you have to....get back to your core....re-brand....add water....let it grow...then you can take advantage of new media reach.....internet.....all those things that kept the great brand of the NHL in the 80's down!! there is no doubt that marketing and "BRANDING" were huge issues in the 1980's as well....NASCAR had about the same audiance numbers back then and look what their "brand trajectory" has been compared to the identity crisis otherwise known as the NHL.....its just poor leadership and a terrible vision of how to grow the brand

oh nothing like a useless rant on a friday morning before work

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/04/03/sp...pagewanted=all

The good ole days!

[brad houghton]

good points Jack

the problem with Bettman is he is a Stern cloan and came from the NBA and he is not really and never really was a hockey guy. i don't think he gets "what use to work and why".....he would have been an ideal #2 guy behind an old school hockey guy with Brains. Bettman could have been the bad cop used to break the union and get a salary cap in place but the NHL should have left hockey up to a hockey person......either that or someone who got and liked hockey but was a savvy marketing person and worked on building what was working in hockey.

the really sad part is its so plain to see yet they stick stick to this failed model and keep the product in markets that don't want it.....and they have turned their back on allot of fans


this never ending quest to find a formula to appeal to people....and heres the key.... that aren't hockey fans and never will be is mind numbing

[spiderarms]

The problem with today's game is NO RIVALRIES, NO PASSION and CONTROLLED FIGHTING.

Bettman and the rest of these clowns are NOT fans of the game they are just pencil pushers trying to suck out money from it. This is only a business for them and they don't care what their selling as long as it makes money for them. They are PARASITES feeding on our love for the game of hockey.

In the old days, body checking was fierce and NOT penalized at every turn. Today it is so rare that a great body check usual results in an immediate fight or response.

Today when we see two guys fighting, they are fighting right off the draw in alot of cases, nothing leading up to why they are actual fighting. What ever happen to the SPONTANEOUS fight resulting from a play or action?

Today, they are patting each other on the back after. (Like we both did our job) What ever happened to the dislike or hatred for an opponent?
The passion of fighting for your team and teamates.

How about the old days when guys fought they were next to impossible to get apart until they got their last shot in. They fought because of something this guy did to your guy.

Another thing is the inconsistency of refereeing today. It's Saturday Night, so Bettman says lets let them "play" we need the ratings. The next night, its nothing.

I MISS OLD TIME HOCKEY!

[Johnny Pie]

Originally Posted by BruiseBroJim

I remember years back, the Wings were at Boston and McKenzie was jostling in front of the Wings net with Larry Johnston and he got his stick up and cut Johnston. Johnston immediately dropped his gloves and went after Pie and Pie was backpedaling all the way to the corner looking for help. Too late, Johnston went to pummeling McKenzie and all he could do is try and cover up. That was one of the happiest days of my hockey life.

I will post what I believe to be pictures of that fight now. But to call Mckenzie the biggest coward is way off in my opinion. Anyone who followed hockey back then knows that Pie would throw a cheapshot every now and then and was a major trouble maker but a coward ,no way. Remember back then players jumping in to help their teammates was how it was done. I have explained on different occassions what made the Bruins the toughest team in that era was because one players fight was everyones fight. That was the difference between them and the rest of the league. All the Bruins knew that they had backup in every fight so they played that rough style.The rules allowed them to jump in so they did. Other teams would not get involved like the Bruins. So to call some player a coward I think that would mean he would start a fight or throw a cheapshot and then not fight. That wasn't the case with Mckenzie or the other Bruins.
HERE ARE PICS OF MCKENZIE FIGHTING [ first the Johnston fight, then Shaky Walton

[bigjack]

I've often written here that they ought to set up a ring outside of the ice surface and before the game, each teams goon comes out in his uniform and equipment so it looks real and they have a timed 3 minute round where they knock the sh*t out of each other. Then the real players skate out for warmups as they dismantle the ring and let the game begin.
The fans get a fight and real hockey players suit up and play. These staged fights would mean about as much as most of today's fights mean!
The game is nothing like 35 years ago!

[Johnny Pie]

next vs Brit Selby in the Bobby Orr vs Pat Quinn benchclearing brawl

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Johnny Pie

I will post what I believe to be pictures of that fight now. But to call Mckenzie the biggest coward is way off in my opinion. Anyone who followed hockey back then knows that Pie would throw a cheapshot every now and then and was a major trouble maker but a coward ,no way. Remember back then players jumping in to help their teammates was how it was done. I have explained on different occassions what made the Bruins the toughest team in that era was because one players fight was everyones fight. That was the difference between them and the rest of the league. All the Bruins knew that they had backup in every fight so they played that rough style.The rules allowed them to jump in so they did. Other teams would not get involved like the Bruins. So to call some player a coward I think that would mean he would start a fight or throw a cheapshot and then not fight. That wasn't the case with Mckenzie or the other Bruins.
HERE ARE PICS OF MCKENZIE FIGHTING [ first the Johnston fight, then Shaky Walton

Great pics-thanks!
Any WHA pics from the Whalers?

[Johnny Pie]

here is afew more vs the Blues and Ranger Glen Sather

[Johnny Pie]

Finally vs Park at the MSG and Walt T in the playoffs