What was the “cryptonite” to your favorites?

[Churla22]

Originally Posted by BaddaBing Badda Boom

sorry, you might not remember Superman

As long as Superman who was operating on the earth but was from the planet Crypton did not come in contact with any material substance from Crypton, i.e. rocks/meteors/metals he was fine. However, if he did come in contact with those substances he would immediately lose all his superhuman powers. Straight Up!

You mean Krypton/kryptonite? You gotta be busting my balls here, right?

Krypton would weaken/eventually kill him, but a red sun would take his powers.

Get your f*cking nerd hat on, man.

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by I like Boobs

Did Wilson do something to your family BBBB?

Wilson went on to fight and beat the best of his era. Dominating legends. Fotiu went on to fight more rookies or not at all... That must be hard to swallow.

Dominating legends and beating the best of his era? Wilson was a beast who deserves his high ranking but I missed him beating Playfair and Probert. I never saw him beat Jonathan, Wensink, Fotiu, or even Wendel Clark. He was still awesome and his card towers over Fotiu's but this is a little out of hand. The only legend he dominated was Gillies in the one fight and he was losing the second until Gillies bailed. From what I could see, Wilson has 3 career wins against fighters that were in the top 10 the year that they fought, according to Merlins lineage.

[I like Boobs]

You missed the Jonathan fight? Wilson lands better.

Behn Wilson vs Stan Jonathan Mar 23, 1980 -...

Sure he lost to Wensink. Wilson and Probert had one altercation and that wasn't long before he retired due to injury. He definitely beat Beck who held on, Gillies, and engaged McSorely unlike another guy. He beat Clark although Clark landed well himself. Beat Paterson who made that same guy look pretty bad. Hammered Nilan a couple times. Danny Gare a couple times, an underrated Curt Fraser.

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by I like Boobs

You missed the Jonathan fight? Wilson lands better.

Behn Wilson vs Stan Jonathan Mar 23, 1980 - YouTube

Sure he lost to Wensink. Wilson and Probert had one altercation and that wasn't long before he retired due to injury. He definitely beat Beck who held on, Gillies, and engaged McSorely unlike another guy. He beat Clark although Clark landed well himself. Beat Paterson who made that same guy look pretty bad. Hammered Nilan a couple times. Danny Gare a couple times, an underrated Curt Fraser.

I don't know why you feel the need to compare him to Fotiu with me. I said his card towers over Fotiu's and that Wilson deserves his very high ranking. But since you want to go there I have to say that bringing up that Joe Paterson fight with Fotiu after talking down Brashear's wins against Probert not too long ago because they came late in Probert's career seems a little self serving.

And yes, McSorley had no fear engaging Wilson unlike Fotiu. Even though McSorley was a rookie who had a 4-8-3 record that year. But still that fight should be used to prop up Wilson, who needs no favors, while Fotiu only beat Behn Wilson as a rookie, a rookie that had a 8-2-3 record that year. The double standards are a little much.

But that's just to answer your comparisons in this post as my first post had very little to do with Fotiu, and nothing good was said about him. I still feel that Wilson did not dominate legends and to a lesser extent he did not beat the best of his era. I saw the fights you mention and I think that is a clear draw with Jonathan. Wensink won a close fight in what was a great war. Mutual respect and dumb linesmen in the Probert fight. I thought the Clark fight was a draw but could understand a win for Wilson. Fraser is one of the wins I give him against a top 10 guy the year he fought him.

Where is the domination of legends? One dominating fight against Gillies does not equate to dominating legends. Until I see a win against Playfair, Wensink, Jonathan, Nystrom, Fotiu, to name a few, I can't say he beat the best of his era either. I'll take Probert out of the era equation though.

[I like Boobs]

He's compared to Fotiu because one guy here keeps bringing up the fight and the player. I challenge you to see how often that it has been brought up by that same person in the past say even 3 years.

You'll always spin whatever you want in Fotiu's favor. I understand that... Same as others. I provide the counter point to the blatant lies and slant BBBB would have everyone believe.

I was a Fotiu fan many years ago, as the past shows. But after reading and seeing all the propaganda, lies, and flat out BS shortchanging others in order to prop up Fotiu, I can't do it anymore. My beef was never with you, not sure why you keep interjecting other than you're a Fotiu fan.

As far as Brashear goes I did an honest evaluation of the fight series with Probert. And I have him at 3 all time. If you didn't like it, feel free to provide one of your own, or point out what you didn't like in that thread.

I can't re-invent their fight cards, not sure why you keep asking for Playfair? They never fought. Again as far as top fighters/legends again: Barry Beck, Curt Fraser, Chris Nilan (multiple), Dave Semenko, I gave him the decision in the Jonathan fight, Willi Plett (multiple), Terry O'Reilly (multiple), Gillies, McSorely, Tiger Williams (multiple), and Wendel Clark. All guys that I've seen mentioned in top 25 all time threads.

Can you provide all of the big Fotiu wins against top 25 all time guys? His fights against Jonathan? Playfair? Wensink? Nystrom? Gillies?

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by I like Boobs

He's compared to Fotiu because one guy here keeps bringing up the fight and the player. I challenge you to see how often that it has been brought up by that same person in the past say even 3 years.

You'll always spin whatever you want in Fotiu's favor. I understand that... Same as others. I provide the counter point to the blatant lies and slant BBBB would have everyone believe.

I was a Fotiu fan many years ago, as the past shows. But after reading and seeing all the propaganda, lies, and flat out BS shortchanging others in order to prop up Fotiu, I can't do it anymore. My beef was never with you, not sure why you keep interjecting other than you're a Fotiu fan.

As far as Brashear goes I did an honest evaluation of the fight series with Probert. And I have him at 3 all time. If you didn't like it, feel free to provide one of your own, or point out what you didn't like in that thread.

I can't re-invent their fight cards, not sure why you keep asking for Playfair? They never fought. Again as far as top fighters/legends again: Barry Beck, Curt Fraser, Chris Nilan (multiple), Dave Semenko, I gave him the decision in the Jonathan fight, Willi Plett (multiple), Terry O'Reilly (multiple), Gillies, McSorely, Tiger Williams (multiple), and Wendel Clark. All guys that I've seen mentioned in top 25 all time threads.

Can you provide all of the big Fotiu wins against top 25 all time guys? His fights against Jonathan? Playfair? Wensink? Nystrom? Gillies?

Just saying that I didn't compare Wilson to Fotiu except to say that Wilson's card towers over Fotiu's so there was no reason to go that route with me to begin with. Since Wilson's card is much better I doubt I could find those names you mention in your last sentence. I have said that multiple times but here we are again. I was not interjecting about Fotiu, please read my first post and understand that.

I liked everything about the Brashear thread and thought you made good points. I think it is odd to make those points and ridicule Fotiu for fighting a rookie Behn Wilson and then add McSorley to Wilson's legends list even though Marty was tomato can as a rook. Wilson was a top ten fighter as a rookie.

And that is where I feel Behn dominating legends is taking it too far. More than who they fought, when they fought them is more important. You mention top 25 all timers Wilson fought but I don't think Nilan, Williams, Plett, O'Rreily, or McSorley were top ten the year Wilson fought them. When careers overlap you could find some decisions that don't represent reality, like someone saying Brashear was better than Probert for example.

You have Brashear higher than Wilson? When I see Wilson fighting guys that were in the top ten the year the fought them he was not dominating them, but he was battling them like he did in every other fight. I see wars where Behn did not change his style due to the competition. I can't say the same for Brashear but I have to give that another look.

Playfair was simply brought up as one of the best of that era that Wilson did not beat. Other names are on that list.

[mikebflorida]

It's just semantics guys.

It's really hard to compare Wilson to say, Brashear. Different eras completely. Wilson was a good dman first and fought who he needed to fight second and was an enforcer elite while Brashear's job was designated fighter his entire career so he fought in the era of designated fighters so his card is full of those designated fighters and he did very well too.

Comparing Fotiu to Wilson is just kind of silly really. Wilson was a BEAST but had twice as many fights as Nick. Why is that? Were people really that scared of Fotiu? They'd rather fight Wilson than Fotiu? Really? I don't think so.

Wilson did beat legends as those guys Boobs mentions are, well, legends. They weren't YET when he beat them but they were when their careers were over. Can you guys agree to that?

When Ewen KO'd Probert, Probie wasn't a legend yet but Ewen has that on his resume that he KO'd a legend.

Also, use of the word legend is difficult as some will disagree on who is a legend and who isn't. I think everyone in the top 50 hockey fighters is a legend but some definitely moreso than others like Probert is a legend but maybe Odjick isn't? Or Cairns? I don't know why but O'Reilly is definitely a legend to me because of the way he fought, a real warrior, same with Clark or Nystrom just balls to the wall, swinging til you can't lift your arms type of fighter becomes more of a "legend" than guys who bail, seatbelt fights, act like douchebags and there are several in the top 50 for me.

Anyway, fun stuff. Wilson didn't have any Kryptonite, he had basically no weaknesses as far as being a hockey fighter, it's why I have him at number 2 all time.

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by pesadillamal

Dominating legends and beating the best of his era? Wilson was a beast who deserves his high ranking but I missed him beating Playfair and Probert. I never saw him beat Jonathan, Wensink, Fotiu, or even Wendel Clark. He was still awesome and his card towers over Fotiu's but this is a little out of hand. The only legend he dominated was Gillies in the one fight and he was losing the second until Gillies bailed. From what I could see, Wilson has 3 career wins against fighters that were in the top 10 the year that they fought, according to Merlins lineage.

well said.

Let me remind you of something that is crack on: "Better to meet a bear robbed of her cubs than a fool in his folly" - you know who likes to tease, tweak, undermine - you know, remember, I WANT MY MAPO! infantile. BTW: Gillies was hammering Wilson in the second go and Wilson admited himself that Gillies got his revenge

Don't sweat it.

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by pesadillamal

Just saying that I didn't compare Wilson to Fotiu except to say that Wilson's card towers over Fotiu's so there was no reason to go that route with me to begin with. Since Wilson's card is much better I doubt I could find those names you mention in your last sentence. I have said that multiple times but here we are again. I was not interjecting about Fotiu, please read my first post and understand that.

I liked everything about the Brashear thread and thought you made good points. I think it is odd to make those points and ridicule Fotiu for fighting a rookie Behn Wilson and then add McSorley to Wilson's legends list even though Marty was tomato can as a rook. Wilson was a top ten fighter as a rookie.

And that is where I feel Behn dominating legends is taking it too far. More than who they fought, when they fought them is more important. You mention top 25 all timers Wilson fought but I don't think Nilan, Williams, Plett, O'Rreily, or McSorley were top ten the year Wilson fought them. When careers overlap you could find some decisions that don't represent reality, like someone saying Brashear was better than Probert for example.

You have Brashear higher than Wilson? When I see Wilson fighting guys that were in the top ten the year the fought them he was not dominating them, but he was battling them like he did in every other fight. I see wars where Behn did not change his style due to the competition. I can't say the same for Brashear but I have to give that another look.

Playfair was simply brought up as one of the best of that era that Wilson did not beat. Other names are on that list.

You make excellent and cogent points. Wilson was a good fighter that did not have half the card of a Brashear, McCarthy, yet he is elevated to mere sainthood. For example, someone has 286 fights with a combined 2 or 3 KOs and you would think that this guy was knocking everyone he fought with out - Simply not the case - Flip the logic around and you see much clearer - Over-stated

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by Churla22

You mean Krypton/kryptonite? You gotta be busting my balls here, right?

Krypton would weaken/eventually kill him, but a red sun would take his powers.

Get your f*cking nerd hat on, man.

u were testing me - yeah I flunked - planet Krypton - u get the pictue at least

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by pesadillamal

Just saying that I didn't compare Wilson to Fotiu except to say that Wilson's card towers over Fotiu's so there was no reason to go that route with me to begin with. Since Wilson's card is much better I doubt I could find those names you mention in your last sentence. I have said that multiple times but here we are again. I was not interjecting about Fotiu, please read my first post and understand that.

I liked everything about the Brashear thread and thought you made good points. I think it is odd to make those points and ridicule Fotiu for fighting a rookie Behn Wilson and then add McSorley to Wilson's legends list even though Marty was tomato can as a rook. Wilson was a top ten fighter as a rookie.

And that is where I feel Behn dominating legends is taking it too far. More than who they fought, when they fought them is more important. You mention top 25 all timers Wilson fought but I don't think Nilan, Williams, Plett, O'Rreily, or McSorley were top ten the year Wilson fought them. When careers overlap you could find some decisions that don't represent reality, like someone saying Brashear was better than Probert for example.

You have Brashear higher than Wilson? When I see Wilson fighting guys that were in the top ten the year the fought them he was not dominating them, but he was battling them like he did in every other fight. I see wars where Behn did not change his style due to the competition. I can't say the same for Brashear but I have to give that another look.

Playfair was simply brought up as one of the best of that era that Wilson did not beat. Other names are on that list.

Watch that video and keep in mind: Stan is 5 7" 168lbs - And most of all - WATCH THE FIGHT TO THE END - lil stan comes on strong

[battleship25]

Boobs, Pesa' you guys both make good points. I wouldn't say BW dominated legends..but he sure beat them. Not all the guys in that era..certainly. Playfair wasn't on his card , nor was Nystrom. LP was a d-man and stay at home one, and Thor and BW had a healthy respect for each other from the gms I saw them play vs each other. Both were players first, Thor a bit more aggressive gm in and gm out, while BW took whole nights off where you wouldn't even know he was there. You gotta remember he was a 1st rd draft pick, contender for the Rookie of the year and if anyone can recall his gm , he was not overly aggressive ..it would be peaks and valleys of nastiness..no consistent fury. Sometimes he'd play like he woke up on the wrong side off the bed, but it was infrequent. He was an elitist, felt he was superior in every way to his peers - which ironically lead to his underachieving IMO. It caused him to make huge mistakes in his own zone and got the PHI fans on his case. Although he cleaned up his act in CHI somewhat, as I was going through a Beta tape last week I saw a Playoff HL in CHI (vs MIN)where Behn is backing in his zone carelessly after a loose puck while Plett gives chase- the puck hops over BW stick goes right to Plett and Plett scores the gm winner !!! This was classic BW..AT TIMES. The crowd I'm sure was furious at BW.

Fotiu's card was terrible, but it wasn't that he was picking spots- except in 2 occasions (LP and Semenko ) I never saw NF play a calm gm ..he was usually running anything in his few appearances on the ice. But NF liked it that way ...he didn't want to fight ..he wanted to intimidate ..and he was one of the best at it. No question. It a testimony to the era he played in (his poor card) where rep was everything, but even in his later yrs in CAL ( when the HW arms race was heating up ) NF still commanded respect...you knew he was a veteran HW and if you wanted to go out of your way to fight him ..he was there...he just rarely started it. Again, I hated Fotiu ..just calling like it is. It pissed me off how much he got away with... no one seemed to deal with him. Maybe they just saw him as a clown , a sideshow act..but for whatever reason he didn't get many dance partners..which was fine with him. Who knows, in his warped mind he probably felt that he didn't want to hurt anyone..which would explain his quick fight style- throw a few quickies and spin the guy to the ice.

On a side note : I have BW edging Jonathan, drawing Wensink and NF - he outpunched both- but Wensink saved a loss with the last 2 lefts which were more pushes than punches and NF landed that right at the end..possibly the best punch of the fight although BW saw it coming and recoiled to take away impact. Wouldn't argue with anyone had it for NF. Just watch the fight with no NY homer announcer sound..count the punches thrown and landed..you may be surprised.



Now Marty Mac.... fought anything that moved in his rookie season...and would've waded right through Fotiu...which probably would've been a mistake of inexperience. As a more seasoned battler..he said on Don Cherry's Grapevine when asked about said incident with Fotiu ' With an experienced guy like Nicky you can't just jump in, you could get hurt'.

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by battleship25

Boobs, Pesa' you guys both make good points. I wouldn't say BW dominated legends..but he sure beat them. Not all the guys in that era..certainly. Playfair wasn't on his card , nor was Nystrom. LP was a d-man and stay at home one, and Thor and BW had a healthy respect for each other from the gms I saw them play vs each other. Both were players first, Thor a bit more aggressive gm in and gm out, while BW took whole nights off where you wouldn't even know he was there. You gotta remember he was a 1st rd draft pick, contender for the Rookie of the year and if anyone can recall his gm , he was not overly aggressive ..it would be peaks and valleys of nastiness..no consistent fury. Sometimes he'd play like he woke up on the wrong side off the bed, but it was infrequent. He was an elitist, felt he was superior in every way to his peers - which ironically lead to his underachieving IMO. It caused him to make huge mistakes in his own zone and got the PHI fans on his case. Although he cleaned up his act in CHI somewhat, as I was going through a Beta tape last week I saw a Playoff HL in CHI (vs MIN)where Behn is backing in his zone carelessly after a loose puck while Plett gives chase- the puck hops over BW stick goes right to Plett and Plett scores the gm winner !!! This was classic BW..AT TIMES. The crowd I'm sure was furious at BW.

Fotiu's card was terrible, but it wasn't that he was picking spots- except in 2 occasions (LP and Semenko ) I never saw NF play a calm gm ..he was usually running anything in his few appearances on the ice. But NF liked it that way ...he didn't want to fight ..he wanted to intimidate ..and he was one of the best at it. No question. It a testimony to the era he played in (his poor card) where rep was everything, but even in his later yrs in CAL ( when the HW arms race was heating up ) NF still commanded respect...you knew he was a veteran HW and if you wanted to go out of your way to fight him ..he was there...he just rarely started it. Again, I hated Fotiu ..just calling like it is. It pissed me off how much he got away with... no one seemed to deal with him. Maybe they just saw him as a clown , a sideshow act..but for whatever reason he didn't get many dance partners..which was fine with him. Who knows, in his warped mind he probably felt that he didn't want to hurt anyone..which would explain his quick fight style- throw a few quickies and spin the guy to the ice.

On a side note : I have BW edging Jonathan, drawing Wensink and NF - he outpunched both- but Wensink saved a loss with the last 2 lefts which were more pushes than punches and NF landed that right at the end..possibly the best punch of the fight although BW saw it coming and recoiled to take away impact. Wouldn't argue with anyone had it for NF. Just watch the fight with no NY homer announcer sound..count the punches thrown and landed..you may be surprised.



Now Marty Mac.... fought anything that moved in his rookie season...and would've waded right through Fotiu...which probably would've been a mistake of inexperience. As a more seasoned battler..he said on Don Cherry's Grapevine when asked about said incident with Fotiu ' With an experienced guy like Nicky you can't just jump in, you could get hurt'.

BS25 - another spot on thread.

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by BaddaBing Badda Boom

You make excellent and cogent points. Wilson was a good fighter that did not have half the card of a Brashear, McCarthy, yet he is elevated to mere sainthood. For example, someone has 286 fights with a combined 2 or 3 KOs and you would think that this guy was knocking everyone he fought with out - Simply not the case - Flip the logic around and you see much clearer - Over-stated

Thanks BBBB, but I was actually saying I like Wilson ahead of Brashear in the rankings. Number of fights do count for something due to the wear and tear of having to fight 20+ times a year but I can't get by the wars Wilson fought no matter the competition. Some real close battles with both fighters landing big punches. I think a lot of fighters have a different level of bravado depending on the competition but then you have warriors like Wilson and Probert. To be honest I have to give Brown another look because if jumping people was as big a part of his MO as people say then I may put Wilson over him also. I have pretty much just accepted him as the number 2 because as a Ranger fan I know what a terror he was and I hate watching him.

BS25, great stuff as usual. I think you could get some real good debates about Wilson fights because they were battles when he met someone else that shared his courage. I think I may give the end of the fight a little more importance than you based on your calls, though you do acknowledge the end. He may have landed more or as many as Wensink and Fotiu but I liked those two guys coming on at the end of the fight and I don't think he was ahead by much if at all. When both players are battling I will give the guy scoring better at the end a few extra points. Same with the Jonathan fight. They were all wars for sure.

[spiderarms]

Originally Posted by battleship25

Boobs, Pesa' you guys both make good points. I wouldn't say BW dominated legends..but he sure beat them. Not all the guys in that era..certainly. Playfair wasn't on his card , nor was Nystrom. LP was a d-man and stay at home one, and Thor and BW had a healthy respect for each other from the gms I saw them play vs each other. Both were players first, Thor a bit more aggressive gm in and gm out, while BW took whole nights off where you wouldn't even know he was there. You gotta remember he was a 1st rd draft pick, contender for the Rookie of the year and if anyone can recall his gm , he was not overly aggressive ..it would be peaks and valleys of nastiness..no consistent fury. Sometimes he'd play like he woke up on the wrong side off the bed, but it was infrequent. He was an elitist, felt he was superior in every way to his peers - which ironically lead to his underachieving IMO. It caused him to make huge mistakes in his own zone and got the PHI fans on his case. Although he cleaned up his act in CHI somewhat, as I was going through a Beta tape last week I saw a Playoff HL in CHI (vs MIN)where Behn is backing in his zone carelessly after a loose puck while Plett gives chase- the puck hops over BW stick goes right to Plett and Plett scores the gm winner !!! This was classic BW..AT TIMES. The crowd I'm sure was furious at BW.

Fotiu's card was terrible, but it wasn't that he was picking spots- except in 2 occasions (LP and Semenko ) I never saw NF play a calm gm ..he was usually running anything in his few appearances on the ice. But NF liked it that way ...he didn't want to fight ..he wanted to intimidate ..and he was one of the best at it. No question. It a testimony to the era he played in (his poor card) where rep was everything, but even in his later yrs in CAL ( when the HW arms race was heating up ) NF still commanded respect...you knew he was a veteran HW and if you wanted to go out of your way to fight him ..he was there...he just rarely started it. Again, I hated Fotiu ..just calling like it is. It pissed me off how much he got away with... no one seemed to deal with him. Maybe they just saw him as a clown , a sideshow act..but for whatever reason he didn't get many dance partners..which was fine with him. Who knows, in his warped mind he probably felt that he didn't want to hurt anyone..which would explain his quick fight style- throw a few quickies and spin the guy to the ice.

On a side note : I have BW edging Jonathan, drawing Wensink and NF - he outpunched both- but Wensink saved a loss with the last 2 lefts which were more pushes than punches and NF landed that right at the end..possibly the best punch of the fight although BW saw it coming and recoiled to take away impact. Wouldn't argue with anyone had it for NF. Just watch the fight with no NY homer announcer sound..count the punches thrown and landed..you may be surprised.



Now Marty Mac.... fought anything that moved in his rookie season...and would've waded right through Fotiu...which probably would've been a mistake of inexperience. As a more seasoned battler..he said on Don Cherry's Grapevine when asked about said incident with Fotiu ' With an experienced guy like Nicky you can't just jump in, you could get hurt'.

It is always a pleasure to read a poster that looks past personal feelings to see that the SUN is YELLOW, the SKY is BLUE and BIAS has NO COLOR!

To steal a line from the "Godfather" movie, this is BUSINESS and many of our posters are taking it way to PERSONAL.

For the record, I did not like Behn Wilson. Why?
Because he was a bully, he was enigmatic and very self centered. Not what I'd want my team enforcer to be.

That being said, IMO, he was the best fighter in hockey. Why?
He was consistantly in every fight he ever fought right to the end, fought in multiple eras and was NEVER DOMINATED by anyone in any of his fights.

Name me another fighter who can say that! That includes EVERYONE of our all-time favorites. All of your and my childhood heroes at one time or another lost badly or some cases, multiple times.

Coming back to avenge a bad loss does not erase the loss itself, IMO.

Behn Wilson never had to do that because he never lost badly!

Was Behn Wilson a perfect fighter? NO

There is no such thing as a perfect fighter or for that matter a perfect human being.

EVERYONE has flaws, yes that includes Bob Probert, Dave Brown, Clark Gillies, Nick Fotiu, Stan Jonathan, Marty McSorley etc.

That is why I was looking forward to following this thread. I wanted to read honest opinions and assessments of all of our favorites. So thank you Battleship for your INTERVENTION!