What was the “cryptonite” to your favorites?

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Since all these guys are afterall, human beings – each one of them is therefore susceptible to one thing or another. Be it confidence, left handers, demons, etc…For example, one might say: Domi had trouble with guys his own size, Probert was only bested by his demons, Odgers rushed in where angels feared to tred – I know a lot of you have a pretty keen eye and you picked up things others of us miss

[spiderarms]

Sometimes its difficult to form patterns but if you look at some of these top notch fighter's overall book of performance and look at their failures, though far and few between, you can find common threads.

For example, some of my NY favorites who you have seen alot of:

Chris Simon- Chris seemed to have problems with Tall, lanky fighters with a
good reach. IE (Chris McAlister, Mark Janssens, Zdeno Chara,
Derek Boogard, Sandy McCarthy etc.) Off course this wasn't
always 100 proof either as it depended on the fighter but he did
have more of a problem in this area than normal.
Another problem for Simon on occasion was his balance.
It seemed in some of his bigger battles with stronger
opponents, he would wind up on the bottom.

Nick Fotiu- Nick had more of a problem with quick handed fighters.
IE(Bob Nystrom, Jack MacIlargey, Joe Paterson etc.)
Again, it depended on the level of the fighter.

Clark Gillies- Big Behn Wilson was definitely in his head but Big Behn's
weapon of choice was the best uppercut in hockey. When Gillies
fought Lyndon Byers late in his career, he had several tough
fights with him. Lyndon's weapon of choice was the second
best uppercut in hockey. I noticed that in tight,
Clark sometimes had a habit of dropping his head.

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by spiderarms

Sometimes its difficult to form patterns but if you look at some of these top notch fighter's overall book of performance and look at their failures, though far and few between, you can find common threads.

For example, some of my NY favorites who you have seen alot of:

Chris Simon- Chris seemed to have problems with Tall, lanky fighters with a
good reach. IE (Chris McAlister, Mark Janssens, Zdeno Chara,
Derek Boogard, Sandy McCarthy etc.) Off course this wasn't
always 100 proof either as it depended on the fighter but he did
have more of a problem in this area than normal.
Another problem for Simon on occasion was his balance.
It seemed in some of his bigger battles with stronger
opponents, he would wind up on the bottom.

Nick Fotiu- Nick had more of a problem with quick handed fighters.
IE(Bob Nystrom, Jack MacIlargey, Joe Paterson etc.)
Again, it depended on the level of the fighter.

Clark Gillies- Big Behn Wilson was definitely in his head but Big Behn's
weapon of choice was the best uppercut in hockey. When Gillies
fought Lyndon Byers late in his career, he had several tough
fights with him. Lyndon's weapon of choice was the second
best uppercut in hockey. I noticed that in tight,
Clark sometimes had a habit of dropping his head.

With respect to Gillies I think his biggest hurdle believe it or not was his confidence - surely in that second fight with Wilson he was layin it down and was pummelling Wilson like few I hav ever seen. Gillies confidence seem to get a boost when he was on the righteous side of an altercation

Brown - was ruthless, but, when he could not bulldog some ala Simon, Probert, you could see he was not the same.

Guys that befuddled me were guys like: Peluso, Poeschek, and Oliwa
any thoughts on these guys?

[GOON 21]

Peluso had obvious balance problems, rarely did he stand up and go toe-to-toe more than 5-7 seconds in his early Blackhawks days, it did improve slightly later on in his career, but he was a flopper in the early days


Oliwa was a guy who was inconsistent in my eyes, i cant put my finger on it - but he was very willing, but would look great and then mehhh in the same game lol. Maybe someone else can put a finger on it


Vukota was a guy who had trouble with taller fighters --- guys like Brown, Grimson, J Mckenzie, D Kordic, all seemed to give Mick 'fits' when he scrapped, just a tough time matchup wise for him

[NameyMD]

Originally Posted by GOON 21

Oliwa was a guy who was inconsistent in my eyes, i cant put my finger on it - but he was very willing, but would look great and then mehhh in the same game lol. Maybe someone else can put a finger on it

Putting it that way, I can't help but compare him to Eric Godard in some ways.

[mikebflorida]

Jeff Odgers, Cam Russel, Warren Rychel all had trouble with getting the shyt beat out of them.

Simon and Peluso, definitely balance issues.

Fotiu's issue was actually fighting. He seemed to go out of his way NOT to fight. His 43 fights over 12 regular seasons indicate that despite him being a very good pugilist.

Rudy P didn't really have any kryptonite as much as just being a shade below some of his contemporaries like Berube, Laus, Twist and a few others. He was right up there and would give them all they could handle but often would get "edged" but never beaten badly. His fight with Berube is one of the best you'll ever see and Berube gets the nod as he drew 2 pints of blood to only losing 1 of his own.

Probert had no kryptonite. He only tailed off as age took its toll and the fire in his belly seemed to diminish, he'd had enough of the hockey fight game and had nothing left to prove. You can put Brashear in this category as well.

Laraque was too nice. If he'd have been a killer like Dave Brown, no telling how much damage he would have done, he might have killed someone.

Ciccone's bug a boo was his temper. With more of a level head, he'd get more ice time and would do better in his fights and enforcing. He was just too much of a spaz and would get misconducts.

Brantt Myhres was a 6'3 230 pound lefty with all the tools to make a great hockey fighter but he never panned out. Why? His era was arguably the best ever in terms of talent and he had a wicked substance abuse problem that dragged him down. Link Gaetz and John Kordic also fall into this category.

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

Jeff Odgers, Cam Russel, Warren Rychel all had trouble with getting the shyt beat out of them.

Simon and Peluso, definitely balance issues.

Fotiu's issue was actually fighting. He seemed to go out of his way NOT to fight. His 43 fights over 12 regular seasons indicate that despite him being a very good pugilist.

Rudy P didn't really have any kryptonite as much as just being a shade below some of his contemporaries like Berube, Laus, Twist and a few others. He was right up there and would give them all they could handle but often would get "edged" but never beaten badly. His fight with Berube is one of the best you'll ever see and Berube gets the nod as he drew 2 pints of blood to only losing 1 of his own.

Probert had no kryptonite. He only tailed off as age took its toll and the fire in his belly seemed to diminish, he'd had enough of the hockey fight game and had nothing left to prove. You can put Brashear in this category as well.

Laraque was too nice. If he'd have been a killer like Dave Brown, no telling how much damage he would have done, he might have killed someone.

Ciccone's bug a boo was his temper. With more of a level head, he'd get more ice time and would do better in his fights and enforcing. He was just too much of a spaz and would get misconducts.

Brantt Myhres was a 6'3 230 pound lefty with all the tools to make a great hockey fighter but he never panned out. Why? His era was arguably the best ever in terms of talent and he had a wicked substance abuse problem that dragged him down. Link Gaetz and John Kordic also fall into this category.

I would say of Odgers, Russell, and Rychel quite the opposite, namely, that they had no problem with getting the tar beat out of them on a regular basis, almost expected to, and perhaps, secretly, even enjoyed it

Ciccone was a conundrum - His temper was a mill-stone around his neck I agree with that - Another guy like that IMHO was Derien Hatcher whom I always respected who did play with that nasty edge - he had some nice moments but I think as you described Ciccone he could not marshall his senses, because he was so emotionally wrapped around the axle he did not reach his full potential

[GOON 21]

Originally Posted by NameyMD

Putting it that way, I can't help but compare him to Eric Godard in some ways.

Yea i hear ya, there might be some comparison in some ways


Personally i dont think Oliwa didnt have some of the BIG WINS of the superheavies that Godard had, but Oliwa was a very capable heavyweight, --- but both guys were kinda *spotty* on who would show up more although i do think Godard was the better/more dangerous fighter for sure

[brawl lover]

I think Oliwa's Kryptonite was a NY Ranger Jersey. He was more or less ineffective while wearing one.

[bigjack]

Fotiu was masterful when he stood outside and free and boxed! He wasn't as effective when he was inside and tied up!
Guys like Nilan and Langdon loved being inside and tied up fighting!
Fotiu was at his best when he was free to use his hand speed and boxing skills! Wilson tried to tie him up and he broke free by punching the top of Wilson's head knocking him off balance and his helmet off. That freed Fotiu up and he fired 5 punches in quick fashion before Wilson tied him up again!
Guys like Paterson, Wolfman Jack, Holmgren in his 4th fight with Nick tied him up and played it smart!
Guys like Ted Harris and Orland Kurtenbach also liked to stand back and punch!

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by bigjack

Fotiu was masterful when he stood outside and free and boxed! He wasn't as effective when he was inside and tied up!
Guys like Nilan and Langdon loved being inside and tied up fighting!
Fotiu was at his best when he was free to use his hand speed and boxing skills! Wilson tried to tie him up and he broke free by punching the top of Wilson's head knocking him off balance and his helmet off. That freed Fotiu up and he fired 5 punches in quick fashion before Wilson tied him up again!
Guys like Paterson, Wolfman Jack, Holmgren in his 4th fight with Nick tied him up and played it smart!
Guys like Ted Harris and Orland Kurtenbach also liked to stand back and punch!

Agree with Fotiu's willingness/capabilities of up close and personal dirty fighting/boxing

As you have pointed out Langdon, Nilan were kinda polar opposites of Fotiu their weakness seemed to be the outside game where Fotiu was very good

Having said all that - if we take away Fotiu's boxing training altogether, I think he had all the ingredients to be an excellent hockey brawler type - ala Probie, Wilson, Berube

[I like Boobs]

Except you know, he was about half as willing to engage as those guys.

Probert had over 250 NHL regular season fights.
Berube had about the same.
Wilson had about 85 before retiring from injury. Course he also had 3 times as many points. As a defenseman.

Fotiu had about 55.

Really that's all there is to say.

[flex_buff_chest]

According to 2 5 10 Clarks cryptonite would be....Cryptonite.

I tease. Laraque was my favourite...His would be that he was too nice on the ice. He was great fighter but didn't actually enforce.

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by I like Boobs

Except you know, he was about half as willing to engage as those guys.

Probert had over 250 NHL regular season fights.
Berube had about the same.
Wilson had about 85 before retiring from injury. Course he also had 3 times as many points. As a defenseman.

Fotiu had about 55.

Really that's all there is to say.

I think Berube poses the biggest challenge out of the three

[I like Boobs]

Fotiu might try a rookie Berube. Otherwise no shot. He didn't fight experienced top guys.