Tough Guys who Turtled for a Penalty Call

[spiderarms]

One thing that I don't respect from a Tough Guy is Turtling. IMO, it ruins a guys rep and imagine in an area where there is little room for forgiveness.

If your looking for a penalty, let a teamate do the honors, your rep is too important to the team and the public at hand.

I have seen a number of guys do it on occasion but to get things started:

One guy I have seen do it more than a few times is Paul Baxter. Do I question his toughness and willingness to take on the tough guys?

NO, but in these instances, I wished he had just throwed down and leave the penalties to the other guys. Baxter was a dirty, crazy player and it was obvious that he wasn't afraid of anyone because he was too much of a psycho.

Who were hockeys biggest Tough-Guy "turtlers" for penalties?

Let's hear your TOP choices!

[Blues 34]

Shawn Cronin and Bob Probert both did this to each other in the same game

[I like Boobs]

The "Fake Glove Drop" was a move that at some point every tough guy has done... Some did it more than others, and some of the biggest names did it more often. Probert did it a few times, Domi did it a number of times as well - one of the more notorious ones was against McKenzie, Brashear was notorious for this at one point in his career, and I remember Kordic (John that is) did it once against the Bruins against Jay Miller to draw a 5 minute power play and talked about how "smart" he was after the fact. Kordic was a lot of things, but smart wasn't one of them.

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Personally, from a strategic standpoint if the turtle comes from an otherwise, standup, fearless guy that has always stood-up for the team I have 0 problem with that. If the greater good was served, namely, insuring or greatly multiplying the probability that my team gets the W - heck yeah!

As far as the "fake glove drop" - I apply the same logic as above. BTW: I always thought that the FGD made for amusing theatre

[battleship25]

IMHO , Probert did this more than anyone. Maybe not always a turtle, but he had so many guys suckered in dropping their gloves :
J.Carlson
Cochrane (at least 2x)
Semenko(jumping)
Maguire (same took the shots- Maguire got the penalty)
Fotiu of course !! (apparently twice)
Grant Jennings
Clark
Nylund
and many others

Why?? Because he became so valuable that he couldn't be fighting every lunkhead that challenged him. This got the Wings a lot of penalties ..and the funny thing is Probie scored a ton of PP goals (I think 20 in his best yr). He still had time to fight over 300+ times..incredible. But he was great at it..making it look like he wanted to fight..but he just wanted to draw the penalty. It was part of his unpredictability .

Now as far as pure turtling ..no one beat Baxter...so hated , everyone wanted to kill him ...but on occasion he could fight(ask Kev. Mac..they had a couple of tremendous t2t bouts).

Once the instigator rule came that's when the fake glove drop exploded...everyone was doing it. Trying to get the other guy to take the penalty.

Brad Smith (TOR) turtled standing up at the STL net when Norwood just suckered him when Smith thought the coast was clear ..LOL. Almost closed his eye shut.

[spiderarms]

Originally Posted by battleship25

IMHO , Probert did this more than anyone. Maybe not always a turtle, but he had so many guys suckered in dropping their gloves :
J.Carlson
Cochrane (at least 2x)
Semenko(jumping)
Maguire (same took the shots- Maguire got the penalty)
Fotiu of course !! (apparently twice)
Grant Jennings
Clark
Nylund
and many others

Why?? Because he became so valuable that he couldn't be fighting every lunkhead that challenged him. This got the Wings a lot of penalties ..and the funny thing is Probie scored a ton of PP goals (I think 20 in his best yr). He still had time to fight over 300+ times..incredible. But he was great at it..making it look like he wanted to fight..but he just wanted to draw the penalty. It was part of his unpredictability .

Now as far as pure turtling ..no one beat Baxter...so hated , everyone wanted to kill him ...but on occasion he could fight(ask Kev. Mac..they had a couple of tremendous t2t bouts).

Once the instigator rule came that's when the fake glove drop exploded...everyone was doing it. Trying to get the other guy to take the penalty.

Brad Smith (TOR) turtled standing up at the STL net when Norwood just suckered him when Smith thought the coast was clear ..LOL. Almost closed his eye shut.

IMO, Probert was LEGENDARY and easily the most well known and popular fighter ever in the NHL and he had that image to protect, especially against lesser fighters who wanted to make a name for themselves by just sucker punching Bob Probert.

To me, if he didn't hit them back, why wouldn't they do it all the more to build up their reputations without paying any retribution for it. Letting some "Run of the Mill, Heavyweight" like a Mike Stothers attempt punching him in the face without returning fire hurts that image.

Just my opinion, but I hear your reasoning behind it.

In the case with Dave Brown in their second fight, he was originally trying to draw a penalty at the start of the fight. Obviously, he changed his mind and he came back in a BIG WAY in that one but what would have happened if they hadn't fought and he had only drawn the penalty!

I'm wondering if some of Probert's "slow starts" in his fights were because he was thinking about whether or not to draw penalties or not ?

In any event, one thing about his turtling, he will NEVER be questioned about his motive as he was COURAGEOUS, no question about it!

[Blues 34]

Matt Barnaby was sort of one of the kings of the fake glove drop and I hated it when he did it

[srehm1]

Probert and Stothers had a history going back to the AHL. I also have to add that Mike Stothers was a good/great minor league HW who spent the bulk of his career with the Hershey Bears along side another well known minor league toughie in Don Nachbauer. Had philly not had the likes of brown berube stanley, tocchet etc.. we would have seen more of them. If memeory serves, Stothers had a great series of fights with the legendary Val James. Stothers was no joke or run of the mill down in the A. Stothers and probie had a great fight down there with Probie getting the better of it.

Maguire came up as well and did the same thing (suckered probert) and those two had some pretty good fights after that. I think there was a time for fighting and a time for playing hockey when it came to Probert. I think that added to his unpredictability. He was a good player and that part of him most likely reasoned it would be better to fight another day because in those days-there was always a chance to fight again. I've said it before and I'll say it again, but probie would have fought a thousand times had he accepted every challenge. That wears on a guy-particularly so when you are trying to play hockey and get on the score sheet. I also think with probert's reputation and fighting in the NHL really exploding the way it did at that time-every run of the mill gunslinger and minor league wildman was going to take a shot at probert. Take a shot at anyone really.

I think it's even more of an accomplishment that probert was a two way threat-he could beat you with his fists and on the score sheet, AND go on to become the GOAT in terms of fighting in the NHL.

I would say-although this would be speculation on my part-that had probert been a one dimensional enforcer type with limited playing skills, turning down such invites as he did would and should generate more criticism. As it stands, even with declining certain fights in certain situations, he still had 300+ fights in one of the most remarkable careers for a fighter of all time-as well as one of the greatest fight cards you will ever come across.

I guess I don't really hold his refusals/declinations against him too much.

[srehm1]

As much as I liked Shane Churla, I hated when he would go for the fake glove drop.

[bigjack]

Ed Hospodar was famous for that!

[spiderarms]

Originally Posted by bigjack

Ed Hospodar was famous for that!

Boxcar was one tough dude but for some reason would not mix it up with Mr. Nystrom. I think he did it to him a few times.

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by spiderarms

Boxcar was one tough dude but for some reason would not mix it up with Mr. Nystrom. I think he did it to him a few times.

He forgot to turtle with Gillies and got his jaw broken for his troubles. It was to our left and we saw Gillies circle the pack looking like a shark and he grabbed Boxcar and started to fire some rights and down went Boxcar and out came the blood on the ice!
The Garden became silent almost immediately and everyone was stunned around us!

[NameyMD]

Originally Posted by srehm1

As much as I liked Shane Churla, I hated when he would go for the fake glove drop.

you make it sound like he did it all the time.. think about how often he DID drop 'em, healthy or not.

[srehm1]

Originally Posted by NameyMD

you make it sound like he did it all the time.. think about how often he DID drop 'em, healthy or not.

I don't think I am making it sound like he did it all the time-BUT he did do it and I didn't much care for it. I wasn't a big fan of the fake glove drop no matter who did it and when. I have the utmost respect for Shane Churla and the job he did as a fighter/enforcer but filling that role, I thought it was kind of cheap when he did it.