Rick Tocchet 86-93

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

Tocchet was awesome. Period.

One of my favorite all time players, you couldn't beat him, you needed a gun to stop him.

Wish we had him now. Of course, he'd probably be suspended all the time.

Great hockey player and warrior and what a draft pick by the Flyers!

[Rugged]

^ And another gem of a trade by Craig Patrick.

Tocchet, Coffey, Samuelsson, Francis. The Pens don't win back-to-back Cups without a combination of those guys.

Thanks, Philly!

[Redzilla]

Good topic and good posts....spot on.

[Huscarle]

Originally Posted by JAVALITE

Attention all Flyer fans. What was the deal with Tocchet during the 91-92 season. His numbers were low that year. Was he banged up. Was he hearing trade rumours. Did he ask for the trade. Was he suffering from mental fatigue with all the losing.

He was such a heart and soul type of guy, so I can't ever imagine he quit on the team. How was the trade received in Philly.

He was basically being asked to be more than he was.

He'd been named captain that year, and was expected to carry the offensive load. Both roles for which he really wasn't suited. That combined with all the loses most likely wore on him. The new GM Russ Farwell was going with a youth movement and they thought that Claude Boivin could eventually fill his role(He didn't),and that Recchi could replace his points(He did). I don't think he asked for a trade, but when he was he must have felt like he'd hit the jackpot.

I don't recall what most people thought of the trade, but I didn't like it. But when Recchi started scoring it was hard to argue with, and the next season he set the flyers all-time points record.

[Wadubbin]

Originally Posted by Huscarle

He was basically being asked to be more than he was.

He'd been named captain that year, and was expected to carry the offensive load. Both roles for which he really wasn't suited. That combined with all the loses most likely wore on him. The new GM Russ Farwell was going with a youth movement and they thought that Claude Boivin could eventually fill his role(He didn't),and that Recchi could replace his points(He did). I don't think he asked for a trade, but when he was he must have felt like he'd hit the jackpot.

I don't recall what most people thought of the trade, but I didn't like it. But when Recchi started scoring it was hard to argue with, and the next season he set the flyers all-time points record.

From being on the other side of the trade as a Pens fan.I was eccastic when Tocchet was traded to the Pens.Losing Recchi was a big blow to the offense,but getting Tocchet and what he brought to the table was huge.I always thought that the Pens didn't always have enough protection for Mario.getting Tocchet and putting him on his line did just that.And it also helped Tocchet out offensively with those monster numbers he put up in the 92-93 season...Also getting Samuelsson and Wregget in return was huge too in that deal...

[JAVALITE]

Originally Posted by Flyer_Frank

The Flyers weren't very good those years. They missed the playoffs from 90-94. Kerr and Howe were getting banged up and were on the downside and they had nothing down the middle. The really good teams from the 80s got older and Clarke's drafting was terrible, so no new talent was coming in.

As an outsider, it was hard for me to judge the decline of those Keenan teams. It seemed to me that Clarke did a poor job of receiving fair value for the players he shipped out of town. The Leafs claimed Brad Marsh on the waiver wire, so Philly got nothing for him. Propp and Poulin both were sent to Boston. Propp went for a 2cd round pick, and he still had some good hockey left in him.

Poulin was declining, but he seemed like a great leader and a good role model for the younger guys coming in. I believe Philly got Ken Linseman for Poulin. I think it was worth keeping Poulin for his work ethic alone.

The ultimate head scratcher for me was McCrimmon to Calgary for two 2cd round picks in the summer of '87. McCrimmon was +83 for Philly one year. His +/- was always outstanding in Philly. He and Howe seemed to anchor the defence. He wasn't even 30 and the Flyers trade him for draft picks!!!!

Philly never recovered from the loss of McCrimmon. They dropped to 80 points the following season, they got bounced in the first round by the Caps, Keenan got fired, and then they steadily slipped to the bottom of the league.

Was there an inside story regarding McCrimmon, because that trade made no sense in any way, shape or form. Philly takes Edmonton to game 7 of the finals, then a few weeks later trade a very important piece for draft picks. Shocking !!

Maybe by the time the 91-92 season rolled around, Tocchet was deflated by seeing good, quality players being shipped out for little in return. His numbers certainly shot up once he got to Pitt.

[Killah_punk]

They just don't make them like they use too! I guess the closest thing to a Tocchet in the current NHL would be Lucic, Clowe, or Simmonds.

[NameyMD]

Originally Posted by Killah_punk

They just don't make them like they use too! I guess the closest thing to a Tocchet in the current NHL would be Lucic, Clowe, or Simmonds.

I'm thinking David Clarkson's game is closer to that of Tocchet, more so than with any of those three.. or used to be at least.

[mikebflorida]

Originally Posted by NameyMD

I'm thinking David Clarkson's game is closer to that of Tocchet, more so than with any of those three.. or used to be at least.

Clarkson is kind of an enigma. First, all he did was fight and now all he does is score. If he has 5 fights this year I'll be surprised.

Tocchet fought a lot more early on until Keenan took him aside and told him not to fight so much, to only fight guys you have to fight, don't go looking for it, so he cut his fighting and pim's way, way down and scoring went up but he'd still fight 8-10 times a season and was a very good hitter.

I would label Clarkson as a Tocchet wanna-be, I don't think he'll ever be as complete a player as Rick was, he's gone from one extreme to the other and that's fine but he's all but stopped fighting and needs to so he'll keep getting room on the ice. D-men were scared to death of guys like Tocchet, Clark, and Neeley, I don't think anyone is very scared of Clarkson this season.

[The DZA]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

I would label Clarkson as a Tocchet wanna-be

Ive heard Clarkson say a few times that while growing up in Toronto, his favorite player was Wendel Clark.

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

I don't think anyone is very scared of Clarkson this season.

I wouldnt go as far as this. Just because Clarkson has been potting a lot of goals, he hasnt forgot how to fight.

[bigjack]

Clarkson is evolving as a hockey player like Randy McKay did with the Devils! At his peak from 97 to 01, McKay scored 80 goals and 167 points in 288 games with only 359 minutes!
That prorates to 23 goals, 48 points, and 102 penalty minutes over 4 seasons! McKay made his bones under Probert and Kocur and came to the Devils as a 4th line fighter who had 3 years in a row of over 200 penalty minutes after 183 in only 47 games as a Red Wing and slowly honed his game like Clarkson is doing now!
McKay with his Detroit training and playing in an era with more fighting coming up had alot more penalty minutes than Clarkson did who has never had a 200 penalty minute season and only one year over 164 minutes but Clarkson has better scoring skills despite playing in a tougher NHL to score in!

I'm sure if you asked Lou Lamoriello what he saw in Clarkson he would tell you another Randy McKay!
McKay's penalty minutes dropped but he never played soft and I don't see Clarkson playing soft now either!

Playing soft is what Vic Hadfield, as an example, did with the Rangers! That was obvious or Sarge Vickers who hit noone!

[GOON 21]

Originally Posted by cookie monster

I know he wasn't close to the fighter Tocchett was, but Kevin Stevens had some similar numbers for a bit too..

1989–90 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 76 29 41 70 171
1990–91 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 80 40 46 86 133
1991–92 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 80 54 69 123 254
1992–93 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 72 55 56 111 177
1993–94 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 83 41 47 88 155

Good player Stevens was (very good) but not the same fighter-power foward as Tocchet, Rick was a special mold and player


Stevens got BLASTED by Richie Pilon during 1 of those playoff series with the Silanders, he was 'out' before he hit the ice, it was actually scary

[mckendo83]

Originally Posted by JAVALITE

Attention all Flyer fans. What was the deal with Tocchet during the 91-92 season. His numbers were low that year. Was he banged up. Was he hearing trade rumours. Did he ask for the trade. Was he suffering from mental fatigue with all the losing.

He was such a heart and soul type of guy, so I can't ever imagine he quit on the team. How was the trade received in Philly.

Mark recchi helped ease the pain.

tocchet winning a cup with Pittsburgh made it worse... but i am happy we won a cup somewhere. definitely deserving.

[Carkner]

Originally Posted by JAVALITE

The ultimate head scratcher for me was McCrimmon to Calgary for two 2cd round picks in the summer of '87. McCrimmon was +83 for Philly one year. His +/- was always outstanding in Philly. He and Howe seemed to anchor the defence. He wasn't even 30 and the Flyers trade him for draft picks!!!!

Philly never recovered from the loss of McCrimmon. They dropped to 80 points the following season, they got bounced in the first round by the Caps, Keenan got fired, and then they steadily slipped to the bottom of the league.

Was there an inside story regarding McCrimmon, because that trade made no sense in any way, shape or form. Philly takes Edmonton to game 7 of the finals, then a few weeks later trade a very important piece for draft picks. Shocking !!

Yes. McCrimmon wanted more money. He might even have held out if I remember correctly. Him and Clarke butted heads big time over that, as Clarke was an old school guy. Clarke was very pissed and got rid of him.

[Flyer_Frank]

Originally Posted by JAVALITE

As an outsider, it was hard for me to judge the decline of those Keenan teams. It seemed to me that Clarke did a poor job of receiving fair value for the players he shipped out of town. The Leafs claimed Brad Marsh on the waiver wire, so Philly got nothing for him. Propp and Poulin both were sent to Boston. Propp went for a 2cd round pick, and he still had some good hockey left in him.

Poulin was declining, but he seemed like a great leader and a good role model for the younger guys coming in. I believe Philly got Ken Linseman for Poulin. I think it was worth keeping Poulin for his work ethic alone.

The ultimate head scratcher for me was McCrimmon to Calgary for two 2cd round picks in the summer of '87. McCrimmon was +83 for Philly one year. His +/- was always outstanding in Philly. He and Howe seemed to anchor the defence. He wasn't even 30 and the Flyers trade him for draft picks!!!!

Philly never recovered from the loss of McCrimmon. They dropped to 80 points the following season, they got bounced in the first round by the Caps, Keenan got fired, and then they steadily slipped to the bottom of the league.

Was there an inside story regarding McCrimmon, because that trade made no sense in any way, shape or form. Philly takes Edmonton to game 7 of the finals, then a few weeks later trade a very important piece for draft picks. Shocking !!

Maybe by the time the 91-92 season rolled around, Tocchet was deflated by seeing good, quality players being shipped out for little in return. His numbers certainly shot up once he got to Pitt.

They had a nice run with Paul Holmgren as coach in 89, made it to the conference finals but the core of that 80s team was still together, save McCrimmon and Peter Zezel. The slide started the next year as that team got dismantled and far less than fair value came back for guys like Propp and Poulin.

I think they did get decent value in the Tocchet deal and then Clarke flipped Recchi to MTL for Leclair and Desjardins, maybe the best trade in Flyers history.

The McCrimmon trade was about $$$. Brad wanted more money than Clarke was willing to pay him. The amount, I forget the exact number, was ridiculously low even by late 80s standards let alone today's. It was the worst trade in Flyers history.

Tocchet came back to Philly very late in his career and was a key role player for them in the 2000 conference finals run. He was a warrior from start to finish, sort of a Terry O'Reilly on steroids. He was a Top 10 right wing in the league for a long time and certainly Top 5 for awhile. I never saw that coming early in his career. His playing stayed at an elite level much longer than O'Reilly's.