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Old 01-04-2013, 10:29 AM
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MCG had the fight but................


MCG's fight with Boogard was all but won but he got careless and BOOM, down with a loss. Great punch by Boogard but MCG was clearly winning the fight up to that point.

You have to marvel at Rypien, he was a real throw back to earlier eras, ALL GUTS. What a loss to todays game!
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderarms View Post
MCG's fight with Boogard was all but won but he got careless and BOOM, down with a loss. Great punch by Boogard but MCG was clearly winning the fight up to that point.

You have to marvel at Rypien, he was a real throw back to earlier eras, ALL GUTS. What a loss to todays game!
I remember watching it live thinking man McGrattan is killing him, then bam he gets floored out of nowhere.

Yes very tough loss, Rypien was always game and never disappointed. He had a lot of heart when he fought.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by FOXHOUND893 View Post
Brashear was dropped once, but was able to recover and score a nice win over Laraque. Calling it a win for Laraque is just ridiculous.
So is calling it a win for Brash.
Draw
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:15 AM
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So is calling it a win for Brash.
Draw
not really. brashear ended the fight w/ a punch. its either a win for brash or a draw. there's no argument for a win for BGL
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:24 PM
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not really. brashear ended the fight w/ a punch. its either a win for brash or a draw. there's no argument for a win for BGL
The stupid linesmen ended the fight, BGL was perfectly capable of continuing the fight, he wasn't hurt at all, he got knocked down by one lucky punch after totally dominating the fight.

Calling that a win for Brashear is absurd. If anything, it would be a no contest since the officials ended the fight prematurely if you look at it from a boxing perspective and then it would go to score cards and BGL would win a unanimous decision since he landed about 10 punches to Brashear's 1.

It's a conundrum, it's very easy to see that BGL totally dominated the fight but Brash fans want to give him a victory any time they can and that's as good an excuse as any I guess. I'm not a big fan of either guy actually and have been a Flyer fan for decades so me calling it a draw or a win for Laraque shows I have no bias at all, he completely dominated the fight and the stupid zebras ruined it for him although if they didn't stop it, maybe Brash comes back to score a win. With the fight being stopped I can only go by what actually happened and BGL knocked Brash down twice and scored several other shots to 1 for Brash.

Objectivity will reveal the truth.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:39 PM
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mike, you are confusing the **** out of me. you either 1)dont remember the fight very well or 2)are completely wrong. the linesmen did not stop the fight. the fight was stopped b/c bgl got knocked down on his side/face. when brash was "knocked down" he was on his knees and able to get right back up. when bgl was knocked down he was ended up looking at the ice w/ brashear on his back. there is no way on earth you can pretend the refs stopped that fight...unless you have a bias against brashear.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:48 PM
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I gave Brashear the win for ending the fight. I recall seeing a slow-mo replay showing the punch land solid. Laraque was winning, so was mcgrattan against boogaard.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 02:08 PM
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Here we go down another thread destruction...

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Originally Posted by mikebflorida View Post
The stupid linesmen ended the fight, BGL was perfectly capable of continuing the fight, he wasn't hurt at all, he got knocked down by one lucky punch after totally dominating the fight.
You keep trying to discredit it by continuously calling it 'lucky', like that somehow matters. What constitutes a non-lucky punch to you?

This is a lucky punch to me (it also fits in this thread)-
Shea Weber vs
Keep in mind, I'm not calling it lucky to detract from the Moen win. Also keep in mind Brashear righted himself and threw two shots that looked to connect. It wasn't some wild flailing blind shot. Hardly what I would call lucky, unless you are willing to submit that all punching in hockey is lucky.

If anything, going by their previous fights, Laraque is the lucky one for having Brashear in a vulnerable position to begin with. But it doesn't really matter who is lucky and who isn't. Even if you want to discredit Brashear and give Laraque the victory, Brashear still comes out on top in their series. Luck doesn't have much to do with it, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebinflorida
Calling that a win for Brashear is absurd. If anything, it would be a no contest since the officials ended the fight prematurely if you look at it from a boxing perspective and then it would go to score cards and BGL would win a unanimous decision since he landed about 10 punches to Brashear's 1.
This isn't boxing, shame on you for using that lame argument. And calling a fight NC because the refs came in is retarded as well. The majority of fights are broken up by refs with both fighters able to continue and we don't call them NC. Just because it's Brashear doesn't mean we start changing the criteria.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebinflorida
It's a conundrum, it's very easy to see that BGL totally dominated the fight but Brash fans want to give him a victory any time they can and that's as good an excuse as any I guess.
What? You are joking right?

It's quite the opposite. Brash haters are so desperate to give him a loss they classify anything even remotely close as a major victory for the other fighter. They despise Brashear and it clouds their fight calls. It's not as bad as back in the mid/early 2000s, but the haters still outnumber the fans and it's not even close.

Evidence is as simple as people giving Boogaard the win in that McGrattan fight, but not giving Brashear the win in this Laraque fight. Like I said earlier, try to ignore the names on the backs of the jerseys and then make a decision on the fight, you may surprise yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebinflorida
I'm not a big fan of either guy actually and have been a Flyer fan for decades so me calling it a draw or a win for Laraque shows I have no bias at all


Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebinflorida
he completely dominated the fight and the stupid zebras ruined it for him
That is a purely bias take on the fight. No credit to the guy who just dropped Laraque.

'After a lucky initial grab by Laraque, Brashear courageously fought through Laraque's patented spin-cycle wrestle-fest and came on strong landing two haymakers which dropped Laraque to his ass and spurring the linesmen to come in and prevent any further damage from occurring. Laraque gives a thankful look to the linesmen as they break up the fight and prevent Brashear from throwing any more punches'

See what I did there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebinflorida
Objectivity will reveal the truth.
Seems it already has.

I don't even care if people call it a draw or win for Laraque. It's just that people have to be consistent with these things, and it's fairly obviously some people just can't do that for whatever reasons.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 02:51 PM
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Here's the video, the video doesn't lie.


Laraque vs Brashear Oct 20, 2007 - YouTube



BGL floors Brash twice and after the second one, laraque lets up thinking the linesmen are going to jump in. it should have ended there. To Huggy's credit, he gets up and lands TWO HELMET SHOTS, the 2nd which knocks Laraque off balance, THEN THE LINESMEN DECIDE TO GET IN.

Rather lucky for Donald me thinks. He was losing horribly before landing a nice shot to BGL's helmet. Laraque lands something like 14 punches to Donald's 2.

Brash fans want to reward him with a TKO win which is a focking joke and even a win is a joke. You guys want me to be fair and unbiased, well, look in the mirror, it's the pot calling the kettle black, Brashear fans I guess feel the need to overcompensate for him because he has so many haters and for good reason.

Don't shoot the messenger please.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:05 PM
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I could pick apart your laughably bias account of that fight. But it won't matter to you so I'll just end by saying; Being consistent is harder for some than others.

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...he has so many haters and for good reason.
Because he beat their favorite fighter. Duh.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:05 PM
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Here was an "old school" one that i still find hard to score, possibly reminiscent of the brash-BGL debate. Does anyone recall Mel Bridgman vs Terry O'reilly? The one where mel tees off on terry and rattles him with a beautiful uppercut. Terry actually comes back and knocks him down.

There are a lot of people who weight how you finish more than the early stages. I can respect that although i don't always agree. I wish i knew how to post clips as this old school one is a great example. Personally i thought bridgman won, basically dominating the great bruin and clearly scoring with flurries including a telling shot which was still the best punch of the fight (KD or not).

I'll bet a lot of people disagree. Funny as well because the two players were widely different in their public perception. Terry was universally respected whereas mel was truly hated
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:11 PM
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BGL floors Brash twice
i stopped reading here. you really think those shots BGL landed "floored" brashear? but the final shot that ended the fight didnt "floor" BGL? geez man, your credibilty re: brashear is completely shot.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:13 PM
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ok ok, i finished the paragraph

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebflorida View Post
BGL floors Brash twice and after the second one, laraque lets up thinking the linesmen are going to jump in. it should have ended there. To Huggy's credit, he gets up and lands TWO HELMET SHOTS, the 2nd which knocks Laraque off balance, THEN THE LINESMEN DECIDE TO GET IN.
.
what on god's earth are you watching? laraque floored brashear, and brashear just knocked laraque off balance? my god man, at least be honest in your bias.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 03:21 PM
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I could pick apart your laughably bias account of that fight. But it won't matter to you so I'll just end by saying; Being consistent is harder for some than others.


Because he beat their favorite fighter. Duh.


Never beat my favorite fighter, not that has anything to do with the argument anyways.

I'm still waiting for this slo-mo of the last punch Brash threw...that supposedly didn't hit helmet. Brash didn't win that fight, 2 or 3 knockdowns to 1.

I'll step aside and let the sour Flyer homers derail another thread.

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Old 01-04-2013, 03:44 PM
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I've posted probably as much as anyone defending brashear. I don't think anyone had him as high as #4 as early as i did on a public all time list. I've disagreed (and partially agreed) with many of the posters i most respect about his traits trying to be objective.

Did he do things that were hard to defend on a scale of "honor" or "likeability"? Certainly. Yeah he bailed against domi in a fight he was winning. I could be an ass for fun and say he was tired of beating the crap out of tie. The point is what other fighter handled tie like that more than once etc?Basically the same thing with mcsorley. Yeah, he wasn't brave vs mccarthy but changed that greats career arc with a helmet cracking win. I was also probably the first to point out chris simon's horrible balance..............convenient or not. It can be fun to be a dick sometimes(). If stephen peat and colton orr fought brash more, just how many times would it take them to earn a draw

I defend his style as exceptionally successful and cite examples of courage or exciting fights chapter and verse. I think there's a grain of truth in the arguments put forth recently. Defenders will see things one way, detractors the other.

This preamble leads to this. I think the brash-bgl fight in question does credit to both men. I always see the glass as "half full". BGL showed the two traits he is best known for; truly uncommon physical strength and an even rarer sense of fair play. He dominates an all time great who was his main competition for the #1 spot for years, handling him like a rag doll..............and lets him off the hook. Tie Domi, mcsorley, twist (etc) would have had to have been pulled off of a vulnerable brashear (which,btw, i wouldn't have a problem with).

The thing is, don't discredit brashear's courage or heart. He dosen't take the easy out or look to fight again another day vs a guy anyone would be leery of. It dosen't matter how you score the fight. I understand the rationale on both sides. Was it a forearm shiver to a degree? Are you sure that punch didn't catch laraque and not just his helmet? Sure knocked BGL off his feet in dramatic fashion.

I used to score it a KD win brashear. Now it dosen't matter as much. I still think it gives credit to both men. If it's a loss, so be it, brash dominated BGL in their first preseason encounter, clear cut. Call their series 1-1 or 2-0 with the rest anticlimactic draws or no contests. I think both guys deserve credit for not avoiding each other.

I do respect the reasons a lot of people discredit brash but i think it is a bias. I'd be as stupid if i said i thought tony twist dosen't deserve credit for being a great fighter. Boring (post enhancers), innacurate, a cheater............so on and so forth.
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