Old Farts Thread

[hockeybooks]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

In 1966-67, Hull's 52 goals helped Chicago win its first regular-season championship since coach Pete Muldoon cursed the team after he was fired in 1938.

one of the great "legends" in hockey lore , sportswriter Clancy Loranger admitted he made this up out of thin air when he was starved for a column.

Pete Muldoon was fired the year after leading the Hawks to a 1st place finish, but "The Curse" part of the story didnt really happen.

is this post the equivalent of saying there's no Santa Claus?...LOL

edit at 5:20PM PST : substitute jim coleman in, and clancy loranger out. got the old-timers mixed up.

[Maggie3and Me]

Originally Posted by hockeybooks

one of the great "legends" in hockey lore , sportswriter Clancy Loranger admitted he made this up out of thin air when he was starved for a column.

Pete Muldoon was fired the year after leading the Hawks to a 1st place finish, but "The Curse" part of the story didnt really happen.

is this post the equivalent of saying there's no Santa Claus?...LOL

Hey Books,

You know what is the funniest thing about this Muldoon was fired after the 1927-28 season. Bill Stewart coached the Hawks in 1937-38. He 8-10-3, in the 38-39 season and was replaced by Paul Thompson who finished the season with a 4-18-5 record.

Thanks for bringing that up. I was concentrating on the article as a whole and that slipped by me. If Loranger wrote that, he was 10 years off.

It is nice to know you are reading our posts. I thank you again for the 'Kurt-Cashman video, and look forward to you posting more

M3M

[BENNETTWOLF]

Under the "Old farts" heading. Do you all miss the helmetless days too? It made identifying and especially, identifying with the players so much easier. Those little touches gave the game so much more personality.

Homogenized, bland, vanilla

Todays defenseman: Don Jackson

[FitzG]

Absolutely it's the main reason why I don't watch much anymore. Just can't identify with the players they all seem like interchangeable cloned robots to me.

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

Under the "Old farts" heading. Do you all miss the helmetless days too? It made identifying and especially, identifying with the players so much easier. Those little touches gave the game so much more personality.

Homogenized, bland, vanilla

Todays defenseman: Don Jackson

[Maggie3and Me]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

Under the "Old farts" heading. Do you all miss the helmetless days too? It made identifying and especially, identifying with the players so much easier. Those little touches gave the game so much more personality.

Homogenized, bland, vanilla

Todays defenseman: Don Jackson

BENNETWOLF,

They did not have names sewn on the uniforms the either. You knew them by number and how they looked. While I agree it made identifying players easier. The death of Minnesota North Star Bill Masterton in January of 1968, as the result of being checked by Larry Cahan and Ron Harris, of the Oakland Seals, started people thinking more and more about helmets. Masterton as a result of the check fell awkwardly to the ice, striking the back of his head. This caused massive bleeding and he was carried off the ice. Two days latter he died of a brain hemorrhage, without regaining consciousness. he was 29 years old when he died after playing in game 38 of his first NHL season.

It would take the NHL until the 1978-79 season to make the wearing of helmets necessary.

[Maggie3and Me]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

Under the "Old farts" heading. Do you all miss the helmetless days too? It made identifying and especially, identifying with the players so much easier. Those little touches gave the game so much more personality.

Homogenized, bland, vanilla

Todays defenseman: Don Jackson

I found this for you about Don Jackson. I must confess to not remembering much about him. This will give you a thumbnail of his career.

Quote:

Don Jackson was a rugged defenceman who was also adept at moving the puck up the ice. At 6'3" and 210 lbs., he was more than capable of clearing the front of his goal but he rarely drew unnecessary penalties.

The native of Minneapolis, Minnesota played his amateur hockey at Notre Dame. Following his sophomore year, Jackson was chosen 39th overall by the Minnesota North Stars in the 1976 Amateur Draft. In 1977-78, he played two late season games for the North Stars before joining the U.S. entry at the World Championships. He spent most of the next year with the CHL's Oklahoma City Stars before ending again at the World Championships with Team USA.

Jackson spent two more years in Minnesota as a farm hand and emergency fill-in before he was traded to the Edmonton Oilers for the rights to troubled forward Don Murdoch. During this time he fostered a successful real estate business in Minneapolis-St. Paul and was very reluctant to make the move to Alberta. Jackson decided to join the Oilers' organization since the recession of the early 1980s slowed down the real estate market. He played most of the 1981-82 season with the Oilers' CHL affiliate in Wichita, Kansas where he benefited from a solid relationship with coach John Muckler.

The 1982-83 season saw Jackson and partner Randy Gregg emerge as an important physical presence in Edmonton's speedy line-up. They also demonstrated an ability to move the puck with sufficient skill so as not to interfere with the Oilers' vaunted transition game. That spring Jackson scored three goals and helped Edmonton reach the Stanley Cup final for the first time. He was a regular over the next three years when the Oilers dominated the NHL in the regular season and won consecutive Stanley Cups in 1984 and 1985. In the fall of 1984 he was one of the last cuts made by Team USA prior to the Canada Cup.

On the eve of the 1986-87 season, Jackson was traded to the New York Rangers in the deal that brought veteran offensive defenceman Reijo Ruotsalainen to Edmonton. He played 22 games for the Blueshirts before ending his career that lasted 311 regular season games.

Hope this gives you some information you did not have

[hockeybooks]

i asked the only alumni i know on a first name basis to answer some questions about his fight experiences in the 1970's

here's Gregg Boddy's email responses :



dave I thought I answered this before.

steve durbano never broke my nose. nick polonich suckered me in detroit and
broke my nose.

ruskowski and I had 3 fights in two games played in edmonton.

I fought dave schultz directly after on the same shift after I knocked bill flett
out in three punches.

First NHL fight against Bobby Orr exhibition game , Montreal vs Boston in Halifax NS.

Bob gassof was very tough. I hit him probably 30-40 times in the fight.
One an upercut that lifted him off his feet.
It didn't effect him much as he swung while in the air.
I saw him that summer as his brother Brad was getting married in Medicine Hat
and Barb and I went to the wedding.

Bob told me that he had never been hurt in any fight and my punch was nothing.
He expained to me that his father had driven the car over is head when he was three or four and even that didn't hurt.

This fight, I was told was the longest televised fight ever filmed up to that date. St Louis was broadcasting the game.
They might have the tape of it.

I also answered that the if the gentleman { SCHULTZ } wants to email me I
will answer his enquiries as best I can
Gregg




> His fight list:

> 71-01-22 ted irvine rangers
>
> 1971-72
> No Fights
>
> 1972-73
> 10/12 Dornhoefer(Phil)
> 10/19 Schoenfeld(Buf)
> 10/31 Kozak(LA)
> 12/29 Lonsberry(Phil)
>
> 1973-74
> 1/18 Durbano(Stl) Durbano broke his nose.
>
> 1974-75
> 1/8 Glennie(Tor) GM Dunn(Tor)
> 3/22 Gassoff(Stl)
>
> 1975-76
> 12/28 Polonich(Det)
>
> 1976-77 WHA Edmonton/San Diego
> 10/15 Gallant(Min)
> 4/15 Ruskowski(Hou) Playoffs
>
> Please ask him about his fight with Gassoff and ask him how tough he though
> the Gasser was.
>
> Also ask him about his Durbano fight in which he got his nose broken.
>
> I'd also like his opinion on who he though the toughest WHA fighters were.
> Good luck.
>
> Ask him if I could email him to do an interview.
>
> { gregg, i compiled the second list form a different hockey fight site. hope
> this triggers many happy memories }
>
> Gregg Boddy 1972-1973 Fights
> Height 6'2'' (188 cm) Weight 200 lb (91 kg)
>
> 1 Sep 23 NHL LAK-Van Don Kozak
>
> 2 Sep 23 NHL LAK-Van Don Kozak
>
> 3 Oct 12 Van-Phi Gary Dornhoefer
>
> 4 Oct 19 Van-Buf Jim Schoenfeld
> 5 Oct 31 Van-LAK Don Kozak
>
> 6 Dec 29 Phi Ross Lonsberry
>
>
> 73-74 dec 20 bill flett , flyers
>
>
> Gregg Boddy 1974-1975 Fights
> 1 Dec 6 Atl-Van Curt Bennett
>
> 2 Jan 8 Van-Tor Brian Glennie
>
> 3 Mar 23 StL-Van Bob Gassoff
>
> Gregg Boddy 1975-1976 Fights
> 1 Dec 28 NHL Van-Det Dennis Polonich
>
> 2 Feb 24 CHL Tul-Tuc Mike Stevens
>
>
>
>
> Gregg Boddy 1976-1977 Fights
> 1 Oct 15 WHA SD-Min Gord Gallant
>
> 2 Apr 15 WHA Edm-Hou Terry Ruskowski

[hockeybooks]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

Thanks for bringing that up. I was concentrating on the article as a whole and that slipped by me. If Loranger wrote that, he was 10 years off.M3M

i think i named the wrong sportswriter, and it was jim coleman , not clancy loranger

and that decade difference is about right

coleman made the story up long after all the original guys had moved on, not as a current event.

[Maggie3and Me]

Books,

Good stuff. Thanks for that on Coleman.

That post with Gregg Boddy's comments is a really good post. I have to confess I am not familiar with him. I did look up his stats and although his career only lasted 5 years in the NHL and 1 in the WHA, he had pretty good stats and from what you posted was a pretty tough customer.

Thanks again Books

[BENNETTWOLF]

No, i bring up Don Jackson because i do remember him well and miss his honest, lunch pail approach of defense.

Todays is Dave "Bam Bam" Langevin.

[Maggie3and Me]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

No, i bring up Don Jackson because i do remember him well and miss his honest, lunch pail approach of defense.

Todays is Dave "Bam Bam" Langevin.

That's why I'm on this thread, because I'm old and slow. I see what you are doing now.

I know only to well what kind of player you mean. The kind that is scarce in today's game.

BENNETWOLF, and all of you other posters, other than rules changes, would you say todays salaries have also had the biggest effect on how the game is played today?

[DaveBrown69]

Good thread guys.

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

No, i bring up Don Jackson because i do remember him well and miss his honest, lunch pail approach of defense.

Todays is Dave "Bam Bam" Langevin.

I didn't think Don Jackson was a poor fighter until he became a Ranger in 1986 and didn't win a fight. He was very game and brave like Jeff Brubaker but never won a fight.
Espo before he acquired Knuckles and Joe Paterson in 1988 had some of the worst fighters ever. Jackson, Jay Caufield, Ron Talakoski, Brubaker, to name a few. Larry Melnyk was only 185 lbs but tough as was Kelly Kisio for a little guy and poor George McPhee was great but always injured! Terry Carkner was a decent fighter but was gone in 1987.

[fansince65]

I was never a fan of the hockey fight !!

Let me explain why >

I have been involved in quite a few on ice altercations , it is no fun !!
If A player says that he enjoys fighting , he is either a "DAM" lire or he is crazy ..
Stop and think , you get cut , they take you back and stitch you up , sometimes without freezing ,not fun , you go back on the ice and the first time you get hit the stitches tear out , now you have a scar for life ..
You take a punch in the eye , it swells up and closes , you cant see out of it , they have to cut you above and below the eye to let the swelling down , not fun either .
Your hands get so beat up you cant hold a cup of coffee without spilling it , you wind up with broken bones that never heal properly , arthritis sets in , you cant close your hands in later years .
Most wind up with their nose broken several times , changes your appearance for life .
That's why most fighters just dont like the role they are put in , but that is the only way they can stay in the game and earn the kind of money they will never see as a doctor or teacher , plumber or truck driver .
If any one tells you they do it for the love of the game they are "A DAM LIER"!!!

[Maggie3and Me]

I thought article belonged here, as it touches on so many comments we have made about hockey today and in the old days. While only 33, Shelly give us insight into what happened when he first came up. Also, he discusses the "code", and staged fights. I hope you enjoy.

Jody Shelly Gives Sharks Their Fight
By Mark Emmons
Mercury news 2/2/2009

Quote:
A few days after the Dec. 31 game, Shelley's face still was bruised — more bruised than usual — and looked a little puzzled. He had been asked about the wisdom of picking a scrap with Boogaard, who is a mountain on skates.
"That's my job," he said. "I don't get guys who aren't willing to stand up. That's what I'm supposed to do."

Shelley, 33, adheres to the classic enforcer code that expects him to be equal parts policeman, protector and provocateur. If that means spilling his own blood, so be it.

In 2002, during Shelley's rookie season with Columbus, he had a memorable series of four fights over two nights with Bob Probert — then a legendary bad boy at the end of his colorful career. And for that, Shelley still speaks fondly of Probert.
"Here's a guy with a reputation, and he gave me a stage to show that I could hang with the big boys," Shelley said

But there is a less-noble side to the job. An enforcer also is the lug who tries to swing the momentum, by any means necessary, when the team isn't going well.

For Shelley, there's only one rule to the unofficial enforcer "code" — honesty.
"You just want it to be an honest battle," he said. "We're going to drop our gloves and stand here. You're going to give me whatever you've got and I'm going to give you whatever I've got. Then you go to the box, think about it for five minutes, then get ready for the next battle."

What he cares about most, Shelley added, is what his teammates think.
"If I go back to the bench and a Milan Michalek pats me on the shoulder, that's when I've earned my spot," he said.

Again, while looking for information on another story, I came across this article. I found it to be exceptional for several different reasons. Not the least of which is that Jody Shelly has no illusion of what his job is.

Shelly acknowledges “The Code”, for anyone who has doubted there is one, his remarks should set aside those doubts. Back in the day, people adhered to a code that was for the most part standard throughout the league. Today, there are to many that take the parts they want and disregard the parts they don’t want.

His comments about an “ honest battle”, also goes to “the code”, and how a player is supposed to conduct himself in this role.
He acknowledges that Bob Probert gave him his chance. Notice the praise that he gives to Prbbert.

I separated this article as his next comments go to what a lot of us have been saying for a long time, regarding most of the fights in todays game.

Hockey fights can be as choreographed as a pro wrestling match — everyone knows what's coming. Some are spontaneous acts of mayhem. Others start when somebody simply asks, "Wanna go?"

There's a long-running debate about the ethics of fighting. But there's no denying the electricity that instantly fills an arena when two heavyweights drop their gloves and begin circling each other like gladiators.

All things considered, I think Jody Shelly gives us a tremendous insight about what goes on in the world he lives in. I will list the link for those who would like to read the whole article., which I strongly recommend. It talks of how gentle he is off ice.

Here is the site:
http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci...111?source=rss

This purpose of this article is a look into a legitimate heavy weights thoughts about his job, how he does it, and what it means to his teammates, Note what he said about going back to the bench and the teammates pat on the shoulder.

In no way is this post meant to be an endorsement of Jody Shelly as “The Man”. I will leave that open for your opinion.