Old Farts Thread

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

Go to google and type in Orland Kurtenbach fights. There will be a You Tube window with the fight he had with Wayne Cashman.

I remember him with Boston and later with Vancouver. He never was a fighter, but, could handle himself pretty well. I think he was 6'2" or 6'3" about 190. He was a good skater and scored well over 100 goals and over 200 assists. He was a good checker and if his games against the Hawks are an indicator, he was a pain in the ass.

BENNETWOLF, if I was more computer literate, I would copy the video for you, however I don't know how. If some one want to pm that to me I would appreciate it. In the mean time I hope this helps.

It's general knowledge that Kurtenbach was the best fighter of the 1960's. His stand back style and long reach was impressive and he was very accurate and could throw great uppercuts. He was a boxer and Fergie was a brawler. They differed in style and also temperment as Kurtenbach never posted a 100 minute season in the NHL and averaged slightly under a minute a game for his career!
Kurtenbach's career was nearly ended in 1968 with a very serious back/spinal injury and only the great work of the late Rangers physican Dr Yanagisawa saved his career as well as Jean Ratelle's, Rod Gilbert's, Harry Howell's, Phil Jackson of the Knicks, and Eric Nesterenko of the Black Hawks. Dr Yanagisawa performed very radical spinal fusion surgeries that most predicted would leave the player unable to walk. Obviously that was wrong although Gilbert actually died on the operating table before being brought back to life in 1964. Back surgery is common today but not in the 1960's!

[fansince65]

Bobby Hull's relationship with his son Brett was nonexistent in the early years of Brett's career , The result of a messy and angry divorce . He lived on one side of the country his father lived on a farm in Ontario . His father had little to do with his hockey development , even less to do with his life .
Brett said he called him once to ask if he could be his agent , this is a man that he had not seen for half his twenty years at the time , He told his father , "no Christmas card or presents , no birthday card , no phone calls , nothing for the last ten years , you have the nerve to ask to be my agent ? the answer is no !!!
Brett gave this story in an interview with Saturday Night magazine ..

Over the years after that phone call they grew close , the animosities toward his father lessened as he matured and the two men grew close ...

[fansince65]

Originally Posted by bigjack

It's general knowledge that Kurtenbach was the best fighter of the 1960's. His stand back style and long reach was impressive and he was very accurate and could throw great uppercuts. He was a boxer and Fergie was a brawler. They differed in style and also temperment as Kurtenbach never posted a 100 minute season in the NHL and averaged slightly under a minute a game for his career!
Kurtenbach's career was nearly ended in 1968 with a very serious back/spinal injury and only the great work of the late Rangers physican Dr Yanagisawa saved his career as well as Jean Ratelle's, Rod Gilbert's, Harry Howell's, Phil Jackson of the Knicks, and Eric Nesterenko of the Black Hawks. Dr Yanagisawa performed very radical spinal fusion surgeries that most predicted would leave the player unable to walk. Obviously that was wrong although Gilbert actually died on the operating table before being brought back to life in 1964. Back surgery is common today but not in the 1960's!

This is touching close to home BigJack , I died on the operating table during back/spinal fusion surgery years ago , my heart stopped , the reason it was such a traumatic operation was the length of time it took back then , I was on the operating table for six hours , the back still bothers me to this day .
Adam Graves had the same procedure on his back ..

By the way seen Adam at the OHL all-star game on Wednesday night in Windsor , he looks great ....

[Maggie3and Me]

Quote:

Orland was quiet and unassuming off the ice, but was a take-charge-guy on the ice. He possessed excellent ability and became a symbol of desire and dedication. He was a no-nonsense guy who was quick to defend any of his teammates - a great team player.

As a youngster he played for the Prince Albert Mintos of the SJHL. In his first season with the Mintos (1953-54) he won the championship and was the teams most important player, leading the entire league in assists. Orland went on to play 188 games for the Mintos, scoring 321 points. In between he played a couple of games for WHL's Saskatoon Quakers.

During these great junior days in Saskatchewan the boy they called Kurt was labeled as a "million dollar prospect." Kurt would never fulfill that promise, but eventually carved out a nice career for himself.

Orland moved on to have three steady seasons for the Vancouver Canucks of the WHL becoming the WHL rookie of the year in 1958. He also played in the AHL for the Springfield Indians and Buffalo Bisons. The native of Cudworth, Saskatchewan also made his NHL debut as a 24-year old during the 1960-61 season for the NY Rangers. He did pretty well, registering 6 points in 10 games.

On June 13, 1961 Kurt was claimed by the Boston Bruins in the intra-league draft. He spend most of the 1961-62 season in Providence (AHL) and only got to play in 8 games for Boston. During the off-season Orland was traded to San Francisco of the WHL for $ 20,000. He had a great season for the Seals, scoring 87 points in 70 games. Boston realized that they had made a mistake by trading away Orland so they bought him back soon after.

Orland had two unspectacular seasons in Beantown and was traded to Toronto together with Pat Stapleton and Andy Hebenton for Ron Stewart on June 8, 1965. Orland only played one season for the Maple Leafs before once again moving. This time it was back to the Big Apple as the NY Rangers claimed him in the intra-league draft.

Orland had two very fine seasons for the NY Rangers and when he reported to training camp to start the 1968-69 season he was fresh from his most successful season that included a career high 15 goals. But unfortunately disaster struck. Shortly after the camp opened Orland sustained a severe back injury that required a spinal fusion. For six months Orland endured tremendous pain while wearing a cast and then a brace. He missed the entire season except for two games.

He was still handicapped at the start of the 1969-70 season and was unable to achieve his potential. NY Rangers GM Emile Francis decided to not protect Orland in the expansion draft 1970. Vancouver Canucks GM Bud Poile immediately jumped at the opportunity to add Orland to his team. It was a great fit for Orland, who returned to the city where he once had played in the WHL (1957-58, 59-61). He had also met his wife in Vancouver.

Canucks coach Hal Laycoe was a big supporter of Kurtenbach's. "We didn't necessarily think of him as a big scorer. We though of him as a leader because of his competitive approach to hockey, his class as an individual and his ability to handle the rough going."

Orland saw his experience in Vancouver as a fresh start. He became the first captain in the franchise history (1970), a position he held with great dignity until 1974. Orland quickly became a fan favourite and had an exceptionally fine first season for the Canucks. He scored 53 points (21+32) in 52 games, which was easily his best season ever in the NHL to that point. The next season (1971-72) he topped that and scored 61 points (24+37).

"I can't explain it," Orland said at the time of his new found success. "It's true that now that I'm the team captain I'm in a slightly different role. Before, I was always the third center, specializing in checking assignments. Now, I'm getting a chance to spend more time on the ice and to work on power plays. That's made a difference, simply because I'm getting more opportunities. Shots are going in for me. My passes are getting to where I want them to go. It's just the way it is in sports."

Orland went on to play another two seasons in the picturesque city of Vancouver. At the age of 37 he decided to retire after a career that rewarded him with some of his best hockey while a member of the Vancouver Canucks.

Orland wasn't a spectacular player and he bounced around a lot over the years, but he played hard every night and his approach to the game was perfect. He once said. " I'm a hockey player by profession. I like hockey and make a living at it. I will play my best no matter where I land. " And that's exactly what he did.

bigjack,

I thought you might like this article regarding Kurtenbach. BENNETWOLF, I hope this gives you more insight into him.

Kurtenbach being the best fighter of the 60's to me is a stretch bigjack. I said he never was a fighter,but, could handle himself pretty well. I admit I saw him early then late in his career. With Vancouver, he had already made his bones and did not have to fight as much. I also said he was a pain in the ass to the Hawks, which, he was.

My comments are based on what I saw, not on what happened when I did not see him play. I know that players gave him a lot of respect and the fights I did see him in he handled himself pretty well. I do know a lot of players did not want to fight him.

I will try find more info and will post what I find.

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by fansince65

This is touching close to home BigJack , I died on the operating table during back/spinal fusion surgery years ago , my heart stopped , the reason it was such a traumatic operation was the length of time it took back then , I was on the operating table for six hours , the back still bothers me to this day .
Adam Graves had the same procedure on his back ..

By the way seen Adam at the OHL all-star game on Wednesday night in Windsor , he looks great ....

Wow thank god you survived. My Dad in 1970 had a herniated set of disks and was in Mass General and out of work over 30 days. They asked him if he wanted to operate and said it was risky surgery and he decided not to and has been lucky over the past 39 years. He deals with the pain but recovered over time to the point that he played tennis and was able to live a normal life!

[Maggie3and Me]

bigjack,

I went to drop your gloves and found the following information on Kurtenbach's fights:

Season 63-64 fights 7
Season 64-65 fights 4
Season 65-66 fights 4
Season 66-67 fights 3
Season 67-68 fights 7
Season 68-69 fights less than 4

jack, he did not have a lot of fights after the 69 season that I can find info on. I did find out that while I was gone he did fight some of the biggest and baddest around. You got to see that, however I did not. That is what my remarks were based on.

I figured he had to have fought more than what I saw for you to make that kind of statement. That is high praise coming from you. I wish I could have seen him in those years. From what you have said, I would most likely agree with you.

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

Quote:

Orland was quiet and unassuming off the ice, but was a take-charge-guy on the ice. He possessed excellent ability and became a symbol of desire and dedication. He was a no-nonsense guy who was quick to defend any of his teammates - a great team player.

As a youngster he played for the Prince Albert Mintos of the SJHL. In his first season with the Mintos (1953-54) he won the championship and was the teams most important player, leading the entire league in assists. Orland went on to play 188 games for the Mintos, scoring 321 points. In between he played a couple of games for WHL's Saskatoon Quakers.

During these great junior days in Saskatchewan the boy they called Kurt was labeled as a "million dollar prospect." Kurt would never fulfill that promise, but eventually carved out a nice career for himself.

Orland moved on to have three steady seasons for the Vancouver Canucks of the WHL becoming the WHL rookie of the year in 1958. He also played in the AHL for the Springfield Indians and Buffalo Bisons. The native of Cudworth, Saskatchewan also made his NHL debut as a 24-year old during the 1960-61 season for the NY Rangers. He did pretty well, registering 6 points in 10 games.

On June 13, 1961 Kurt was claimed by the Boston Bruins in the intra-league draft. He spend most of the 1961-62 season in Providence (AHL) and only got to play in 8 games for Boston. During the off-season Orland was traded to San Francisco of the WHL for $ 20,000. He had a great season for the Seals, scoring 87 points in 70 games. Boston realized that they had made a mistake by trading away Orland so they bought him back soon after.

Orland had two unspectacular seasons in Beantown and was traded to Toronto together with Pat Stapleton and Andy Hebenton for Ron Stewart on June 8, 1965. Orland only played one season for the Maple Leafs before once again moving. This time it was back to the Big Apple as the NY Rangers claimed him in the intra-league draft.

Orland had two very fine seasons for the NY Rangers and when he reported to training camp to start the 1968-69 season he was fresh from his most successful season that included a career high 15 goals. But unfortunately disaster struck. Shortly after the camp opened Orland sustained a severe back injury that required a spinal fusion. For six months Orland endured tremendous pain while wearing a cast and then a brace. He missed the entire season except for two games.

He was still handicapped at the start of the 1969-70 season and was unable to achieve his potential. NY Rangers GM Emile Francis decided to not protect Orland in the expansion draft 1970. Vancouver Canucks GM Bud Poile immediately jumped at the opportunity to add Orland to his team. It was a great fit for Orland, who returned to the city where he once had played in the WHL (1957-58, 59-61). He had also met his wife in Vancouver.

Canucks coach Hal Laycoe was a big supporter of Kurtenbach's. "We didn't necessarily think of him as a big scorer. We though of him as a leader because of his competitive approach to hockey, his class as an individual and his ability to handle the rough going."

Orland saw his experience in Vancouver as a fresh start. He became the first captain in the franchise history (1970), a position he held with great dignity until 1974. Orland quickly became a fan favourite and had an exceptionally fine first season for the Canucks. He scored 53 points (21+32) in 52 games, which was easily his best season ever in the NHL to that point. The next season (1971-72) he topped that and scored 61 points (24+37).

"I can't explain it," Orland said at the time of his new found success. "It's true that now that I'm the team captain I'm in a slightly different role. Before, I was always the third center, specializing in checking assignments. Now, I'm getting a chance to spend more time on the ice and to work on power plays. That's made a difference, simply because I'm getting more opportunities. Shots are going in for me. My passes are getting to where I want them to go. It's just the way it is in sports."

Orland went on to play another two seasons in the picturesque city of Vancouver. At the age of 37 he decided to retire after a career that rewarded him with some of his best hockey while a member of the Vancouver Canucks.

Orland wasn't a spectacular player and he bounced around a lot over the years, but he played hard every night and his approach to the game was perfect. He once said. " I'm a hockey player by profession. I like hockey and make a living at it. I will play my best no matter where I land. " And that's exactly what he did.

bigjack,

I thought you might like this article regarding Kurtenbach. BENNETWOLF, I hope this gives you more insight into him.

Kurtenbach being the best fighter of the 60's to me is a stretch bigjack. I said he never was a fighter,but, could handle himself pretty well. I admit I saw him early then late in his career. With Vancouver, he had already made his bones and did not have to fight as much. I also said he was a pain in the ass to the Hawks, which, he was.

My comments are based on what I saw, not on what happened when I did not see him play. I know that players gave him a lot of respect and the fights I did see him in he handled himself pretty well. I do know a lot of players did not want to fight him.

I will try find more info and will post what I find.

Nice article and to most he was the best fighter of that era. It was normally 3 guys that they would mention. Fergie, Ted Harris, and Kurtenbach. Most picked Kurtenbach as the best fighter and Fergie by far as the best policeman! Noone was close to Ferguson as a policeman in the 1960's. Guys like Ted Green would get mentioned or a Reg Fleming, Vic Hadfield, Howe, but Kurtenbach prior to his injury was the cream of the crop to most.
This article describes Kurtenbach accurately. In NY prior to his injury, he was the 3rd line center and a 35 point man with around 25 assists and 10 goals. His role was to be a checker and get his assists and also lend physical support when needed. In 1969/70, he only played in 53 games and as a parttime player and only had 4 goals and 14 points with 47 minutes. In the playoff against Boston, he played all 6 games with 24 minutes and 3 points and was a presence.
Cashman fought him smart in NY staying in tight and didn't allow Kurtenbach to stand back and fire away.
As the great writer Gerry Eskenazi wrote in his book, "A Year on Ice",
"Later in that game, Jim Lorentz made the mistake of hitting Tkaczuk in the face with his stick and Kurtenbach saw it. The big man joins in and in what becomes the best fight of the night, he belts Lorentz around. Speer enters the bout, and the 3 are penalized."
That was typical of Boston in those days of jumping in anytme a Bruin was losing a fight.
In Derek Sanderson's book, "I Got To Be Me", he also wrote that Kurtenbach was the best fighter in the league. I can't kill Francis for letting him go in the 1970 expansion draft because he was 34 and had the back and Francis had young centers in Syl Apps and Don Luce waiting to step in. Francis used Larry Brown to acquire veteran 3rd line center Pete Stemkowski early in 1970 and sent Luce there also two days later. With Stemkowski, Francis unfortunately sent the young and talented Apps to Pittsburgh for Slats Sather in January of 1971. The year before with Kurtenbach returning from his injury, he had sent another young talented center-Whitey Widing to the Kings for Teddy Irvine.
I have computer issues right now and can't search the web or would look for some articles on Kurtenbach's fighting prowess and reputation. I can get on this site directly but am unable to search due to virus issues!
Kurtenbach in Eskenazi's book talks about how his reputation as a fighter has distressed him for some time. He said that he never changed his style since junior hockey except that he was scoring 80 or 100 points in a season so they wrote about that and not the other thing meaning fighting.
Eskenazi writes about his being a low key guy and the pain he's in as he attempts to comeback from the spinal fusion surgery. Eskenazi is amazed with Kurtenbach's being so low key as he asks is this the man with the fastest fists in hockey?
That to me distinguished Kurtenbach from Ferguson who was a warrior and would do anything to win and had a powerful personality whereas Kurtenbach was a reluctant fighter even though he did it so well!

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

bigjack,

I went to drop your gloves and found the following information on Kurtenbach's fights:

Season 63-64 fights 7
Season 64-65 fights 4
Season 65-66 fights 4
Season 66-67 fights 3
Season 67-68 fights 7
Season 68-69 fights less than 4

jack, he did not have a lot of fights after the 69 season that I can find info on. I did find out that while I was gone he did fight some of the biggest and baddest around. You got to see that, however I did not. That is what my remarks were based on.

I figured he had to have fought more than what I saw for you to make that kind of statement. That is high praise coming from you. I wish I could have seen him in those years. From what you have said, I would most likely agree with you.

His first year with Vancouver was remarkable at age 34. He hurt his knee that season and only played in 52 games out of 78 but had 53 points as the first line center and also interstingly had 84 minutes. If healthy, this probably would of been his first 100 minute year in the NHL. I remember him being asked why the sudden production and his attitude was similar to what it had been in Eskenazi's book that he was a big scorer in Juniors and now was being played on the powerplay and in a scorers role and consequently with the added responsibilty and confidence he found his scoring touch! He was the Canucks first Captain and is beloved out in Vancouver and later coached the team.
I just looked at Big Kurt's first year in NY and he scored 36 points in only 60 games which was a solid 3rd line center in 1966/67. He played 73 games the next year and had 15 goals and 35 points with 82 minutes and then came the back injury!
In the playoffs, he played in 19 games and had 70 minutes so he stepped up the heavy lifting come playoff time! Ole number 25, Orland Kurtenbach!

[Maggie3and Me]

Nice post jack,

I know that Ferguson, Hadfield, and Fleming were more active, but, as you and I know, that doesn't always mean the best.

I looked up a video of his fight with Wayne Cashman in the 69-70 season. I was really impressed. It also looked like if he could separation from the opponent, he could really hurt you. I later found out that fight was one of the highest rated fights of the year.

The comment you made about the cross check to Tkaczuk, and "Kurt's" response, is the player I remember most. As mentioned in my post and in yours, he was quick to come to the aid of a teammate and was a very good policeman.

By the way, was that a typing error when you said you "can't kill" Francis for letting him go. If so that is nicest thing I've heard you say about "The Cat".lol

Thanks for your post jack, as always a lot of good information.

M3M

[battleship25]

Growing up in Windsor I can attest to what BJ is saying about Kurt. I'm 45 and when I was a kid, there was Kurtenbach, Harris and Ferguson. Of that bunch the best fighter by almost all accounts was Kurt. I remember reading that he took a decision from both Fergie( maybe a draw as well) and Harris, and had dropped a few guys with his Marquis of Queensbury style of ice fighting. They said he had great balance, timing and long arms...all needed to be a top notch fighter. True he didn't fight much but not a lot of guys would try him and he didn't do cheap stuff or borderline stuff like Fergie. He might be the 60's version of Clark Gillies. When I was real young he was my favorite player...I was so young I just thought his name was cool ...hell, I think I was around 8 yrs old...what do you expect?

That's the reason I loved the Hawks since a small kid...I loved that big Indian Head on the jersey....everyone around me was either a Wings fan, Habs( the worst..." Oh I can't believe they didn't win the Cup every yr during the 70's- they suck now !!" those are some spoiled fans, or the Leafs of course being the biggest group...alhtough for us in Windsor the Wings were much closer.

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

Nice post jack,

I know that Ferguson, Hadfield, and Fleming were more active, but, as you and I know, that doesn't always mean the best.

I looked up a video of his fight with Wayne Cashman in the 69-70 season. I was really impressed. It also looked like if he could separation from the opponent, he could really hurt you. I later found out that fight was one of the highest rated fights of the year.

The comment you made about the cross check to Tkaczuk, and "Kurt's" response, is the player I remember most. As mentioned in my post and in yours, he was quick to come to the aid of a teammate and was a very good policeman.

By the way, was that a typing error when you said you "can't kill" Francis for letting him go. If so that is nicest thing I've heard you say about "The Cat".lol

Thanks for your post jack, as always a lot of good information.

M3M

Francis is an enigma to me. First off I was lucky enough to have met him through my cousin and he was very nice and also loved Richie and gave him a job at age 18 in 1964. I also respect his hockey knowledge and he did a great job of rebuilding the brutal early 1960's Rangers.
What kills me about him are:
He was clueless about how a lack of muscle hurt his skilled players in the playoffs and I always reference Ratelle because the numbers and fall off in production was staggering!
I call him a mad scientist for some of his deals in the 1970's once he accumulated so much young talent!
He was horrible picking coaches!
He had Fred Shero doing great things in Buffalo and Omaha all throughout the 1960's and Shero was an ex-Ranger and he ignores all of that and hired the Boomer, Larry Popein, and Ron Stewart and all three were gone halfway through their first seasons as coach!
He chose horrible Captains in Hadfield and Park that was bad also. Frankly the leader of the team was Giacomin but he was a goalie. If you watch the Schultz/Rolfe fight in the 1974 playoffs, it is Giacomin who wants to jump in to save Rolfe but can't! I always blamed Hadfield there because he was playing on a very bad ankle and injured and was team Captain and he was right there and did sh*t about it!
What Francis does get killed for is trying to buy a Cup after 1972 and the onset of the WHA and keeping almost all his Rangers by giving them all massive contracts that creative fatcats! The only players he lost were Jim Dorey in 1972 and Bruce MacGregor in 1974. The truth is that his boss, President Bill Jennings made him offer those massive deals when Francis was somewhat against doing it! He should get some of the blame and not controlling the players afterward but not all the blame!
I have killed Francis over the years for the things that I mentioned but the Rangers were a good to very good team from 1967 to 75!

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

bigjack,

You and I have talked about this before , but it does warrant looking into again.
From the 70-71 season till the 73-74 season, on two teams had such a direct bearing on who won the Cup. Here is a sample of what I mean.

1970-71 Hawks win semi's over Rangers. Habs beat Hawks for Cup.
1971-72 Rangers beat Hawks in semi's. Bruins beat Rangers for Cup.
1972-73 Hawks beat Rangers in semi's. Habs beat Hawks for Cup.
1973-74 Bruins beat Hawks in semi's. Bruins beat Rangers for Cup.

Obviously the Bruins and Montreal were very good team as they each won two Cups in those four years. This is not meant to take anything away from these teams.

bigjack, you can't help but wonder what would or could have happened if Wirtz pays Hull his million in 72 and does not force some very stupid moves. The same for the way Francis gutted the Rangers, with Jennings help. It would not have taken much for either team to get over the hump.

The eventual cup winners came from our teams knocking each other off except the last year and the Rangers could not stand up to the Bruins

When looking at the impact of the WHA, Boston was hurt badly along with Bobby Orr's fragile knees at the end of the year.
Boston lost their money goalie to start in Gerry Cheevers and never replaced him. He leaves and the Bruins did make it to one finals in 1974 and then he comes back and they made it to back to back finals and could of played the Rangers for the Cup in 1979 if not for a two many men on the ice call that gave the Habs the powerplay opportunity that tied the game. Cheevers was a money goalie.
Boston also lost Sanderson who then was never the same player again and Mike Walton and due to losing Cheevers were forced to deal another center Fred Stanfield to acquire Gillies Gilbert. That is 3 centers that weakened them up the middle.
Chicago was hurt for sure big time losing the Golden Jet and later Ralph Backstrom who added veteran center ice play and cost the team one Dan Maloney. The irony is they also lost Andre Lacroix and who would of thought that he would become a STUD and the all-time leading WHA scorer playing all 7 seasons! Brian Campbell also went to the WHA as did Whitey Stapleton so Chicago was impacted greatly also.
Montreal lost alot also but were so deep that they weren't impacted. Guys like: Marc Tardif, Larry Pleau, Rejean Houle, JC Tremblay and later Frank Mahovlich and yet the Habs kept on rolling along. The only years when they were slightly underpar were due to Ken Dryden leaving in 1973/74 and returning with a poor (2.69) 1974/75 year for him!
Montreal was loaded with talent and to be able to lose Tardif, Houle, Tremblay, and Mahovlich was remarkable. Pleau was a bench player so he didn't matter much but the other guys were all players!
First they have Jean Beliveau and John Ferguson retire after the 1971 Cup and replace them and then lose Tardif and Houle after the 1973 Cup and just kept bringing in new talent!
Remarkable!

[Maggie3and Me]

NOTICE TO ALL: I MADE AN INCORRECT POST AND PULLED IT. UNFORTUNATELY BIGJACK ANSWERED BEFORE CHANGES COULD BE MADE. I APOLOGIZE TO HIM AND TO YOU, THE READERS.
THE CORRECTED POST, WITH THE CORRECT TEAMS AND RESULTS IS POSTED BELOW.


bigjack,

You and I have talked about this before , but it does warrant looking into again.
From the 70-71 season till the 73-74 season, on two teams had such a direct bearing on who won the Cup. Here is a sample of what I mean.

1970-71 Hawks win semi's over Rangers. Habs beat Hawks for Cup.
1971-72 Rangers beat Hawks in semi's. Bruins beat Rangers for Cup.
1972-73 Hawks beat Rangers in semi's. Habs beat Hawks for Cup.
1973-74 Bruins beat Hawks in semi's. Flyers beat Rangers in semi's, Flyers beat Bruins for Cup.

Obviously the Bruins and Flyers were very good teams. Each winning a Cup and Montreal, won two Cups in those four years. This is not meant to take anything away from these teams.

bigjack, you can't help but wonder what would or could have happened if Wirtz pays Hull his million in 72 and does not force some very stupid moves. The same for the way Francis gutted the Rangers, with Jennings help. It would not have taken much for either team to get over the hump.

The eventual cup winners came from our teams knocking each other off except the last year and the Rangers could not stand up to the Flyers and we could not beat the Bruins.

jack, had to pull original post because I really screwed up with the Flyers. My apologies to all sometime the brain and fingers seem not to get along

[I like Boobs]

Nice work in here fellas, some really great reading. I just caught up with this thread today and its been a real pleasure seeing some of the back and forth in here on some legends.

I thought I would switch it up a bit and talk about some of the memories I have of the Old Prince Edward Island Senior A hockey league from many moons ago. I posted this awhile back, but I thought I would bring it out of retirement for you guys.

I used to watch Wayne Bernard when he played for the Tignish Aces of the old PEI Senior League. He was easily the toughest goaltender of the league, and was one of those Billy Smith/Ron Hextall types. A genuine nutbag who would do all kinds of crazy things although I remember more of his losses than his wins. A few things I Remember from watching (Bear in mind that these were years ago and I don't have the luxury of video replay to verify these facts): I saw PEI native and genuine tough guy Al Wright absolutely destroy him with a hit after Bernard had slashed him really hard to the back of the legs. Wright came from about center ice and demolished him, quietly threw the gloves and waited but there were no takers - and Tignish was a TOUGH team. Bernard was out cold and was out for about 10 minutes lying on the ice. Apparently Wright had played in the AHL and ECHL and had a huge tough guy reputation - hockeydb.com has him listed as 5'11, 180lbs but that is simply false. Wright goes about 6'2, 230 lbs and has won the annual PEI Strongman competition (He also holds all of the records in the individual events) for the past 5 or 6 years. (I announce the show).

Another time I saw Wayne Bernard become involved with O'Leary Maroons defenseman Carl Exantus who was an import player from Quebec. They actually fought twice and the rumour was that Bernard had said something that was racially motivated to piss off Exantus which I don't think is true. (Big Carl was black) Regardless there was a big uproar in the communities and "Lets Stop Racism" pins were handed out at games between O'Leary and Tignish, which I always thought must have been hurtful because there were only 2 black players in the league. Carl and The "Chocolate Rocket" Marco Thorne (His own nickname so don't flame me). In the first fight Bernard got the jump on Big Carl and really fed him his lunch, this of course ignited a linebrawl between the 2 clubs and brought down Maroons goalie Alan Andrews (Not the man of hockey school fame) into the fray where he was promptly dispatched by Bernard who had been separted from Exantus.

In the rematch Big Carl went right after Bernard and laid a beating on him before he was saved by his Tignish teammates - I think Gary McRae was the guy that pulled him off and straightened out Exantus but I may be wrong (its been a few years).

Another memory I have of Wayne Bernard was the brawl between Tignish and O'Leary which took place in Tignish. The O'Leary squad had three brothers - Scott, Todd, and Chris McCabe (I listed them according to their fighting abilities) whose main goal was to keep other teams honest. In order to give the story a little background the McCabes parents were always in attendance for their son's games, and were seated directly behind the Tignish Aces bench this evening. All 3 McCabes were on the ice for a shift when something was said to one of the boys from the Tignish bench - this prompted Todd to attack the bench! Scott and Chris quickly followed suit, and I believe Sylvain Mayer (a tough as NAILS forward from Quebec who could really fight) and another player who escapes me at the moment jumped in as well and it was on... I never saw anything like it in my life! The kicker was that that their mother was swinging her purse at the Tignish players and coaches from the stands screaming at them "Don't you hurt my boys!" Meanwhile their father just sat there calmly taking it all in... During this brawl Bernard skated directly to the Tignish bench and held on to someone but I don't think anything arose. Than coming on towards the end of the brawl he fought and did well but I can't remember who his opponent was...

Speaking of Sylvain Mayer (who is apprently playing in the QSPHL now) he gave Bernard one of the worst beatings that I've ever seen another human being take in a hockey fight. It was so one-sided that I couldn't believe nobody came off the bench from Tignish to help their goaltender - although Bernard always did fight his own battles. Even though I am a huge fight fan and wanted to see the O'Leary squad to well, I felt genuinely sorry for the hated rival on that particular night.

My favorite all-time Wayne Bernard memory is after a line-brawl in O'Leary in which he had, according to my father, "Came in second in that fight," he went completely ballistic. The fans in O'Leary were really taunting Bernard on his loss and Bernard went ape-****, took a flying start and jumped into the crowd to attack them with his goalie stick and blocker. This occured at the entrance/exit at the far end of the rink and I was seated in the middle so I had a pretty good vantage point to witness everything. Bernard was throwing shots in every direction and the fans were reciprocating, than the O'Leary fans and Tignish fans got into a few scraps and the whole place nearly rioted. Police were called in and play was stopped for about half an hour while order was restored.

I miss those days as they were some of the most entertaining hockey games and fights that I have ever witnessed.

[Maggie3and Me]

Originally Posted by bigjack

Montreal was loaded with talent and to be able to lose Tardif, Houle, Tremblay, and Mahovlich was remarkable. Pleau was a bench player so he didn't matter much but the other guys were all players!
First they have Jean Beliveau and John Ferguson retire after the 1971 Cup and replace them and then lose Tardif and Houle after the 1973 Cup and just kept bringing in new talent!
Remarkable!

jack,

Truer words have never been spoken.

After the 72 season we lost Nestereko(at the end of his career),Stapelton, and Bryan Campbell all go to the WHA.

In 73, we have Maloney traded in February for Backstrom, who at the end of the season, also goes to the WHA. Korab gets traded for Gary Smith and Dale Tallon. Smith plays parts of the next two seasons and has 24w and 15L in goal before going to St. Louis.

So, for all the wheeling and dealing done by the Hawks, who at least made it to the semi's four years in a row, we get Dale Tallon. This is part of the frustration we have had as a team and as fans.

To give you an idea of what was and what now is.

1927 to 1986 3 Championships and 41 playoff appearances.
1987 to present 12 playoff appearances.