Old Farts Thread

[Maggie3and Me]

I ran across this earlier, but was to sick to put it up. I thought that not only Blackhawks fans, but, my Blues friends here would appreciate this. I hope you enjoy.

The Verdict: The road to Blackhawks, NHL glory passed through St. Louis

Wednesday, 01.02.2013 / 1:00 AM / The Verdict
By Bob Verdi - Blackhawks Team Historian

St. Louis, an ally of Chicago? In professional sports? Really?

Really. Given the fierce rivalry between the Blackhawks and Blues—not to mention the ancient struggles involving the Cubs and Cardinals—it is difficult to fathom that these two cities could forge a friendly relationship.

But turn the page back to the era of the Original Six in the National Hockey League, and there it is: the St. Louis Braves were a farm team for the Blackhawks. Moreover, the Braves sent such luminaries as Phil Esposito, Dennis Hull and Pat Stapleton to Chicago.

“Do I remember St. Louis?” Esposito was saying the other day. “Absolutely. But did you know that the first Braves team I was with in St. Louis started the season in Syracuse?”

Indeed, Syracuse was a member of the Eastern Professional Hockey League when Esposito showed up in 1962. The American Hockey League and Western Hockey League were in existence, but operated independently. So the NHL, seeking more control over players, formed the EPHL in 1959.

“We couldn’t draw flies in Syracuse,” Esposito recalled. “Before one of our games, there was a kids’ game at our rink. There might have been 700 people in the stands. I want to say we were scheduled to play Hull-Ottawa. I ran out in my underwear and started yelling to the fans, ‘please don’t leave…we’ll be playing out here in a little while.’

“I don’t think that went over real well. We had some good players. Roger Crozier, a good goalie, went on to win rookie of the year in the NHL with Detroit in 1965. Anyway, right around the holidays in December, we snuck out of town. Not that anybody noticed. A bunch of us piled into a car and drove to Michigan, then on to our new home, St. Louis. It was a much better market. We drew 5,000 to 7,000 for some games. The building was another story. We played in the old Arena. And I mean old. We had to climb over the boards. There were no doors to the benches.”

In 1963, the Braves became part of the Central Professional Hockey League, with all teams located in the United States. Their broadcaster was a legend, Jack Buck. The Braves were coached by Gus Kyle, who played briefly in the NHL and later became a fixture as analyst for the Blues beside another legend, play-by-play broadcaster Dan Kelly.
“Gus was a character,” Esposito went on. “At the end of my first season, he brought me into his office and sat me down. ‘Phil,” he said, ‘I want you to go home this summer, work real hard, and get in good shape so you can come back here next season and CONTINUE TO DRINK BEER AND MISS CURFEW!’ What a beauty he was. When we had trouble on power plays, he might have been the first to ask a referee whether we could decline the penalty. And there was plenty of rough stuff, a lot of fights and shenanigans in the league.”

On Nov. 22, 1963, Esposito was in his apartment at the George Washington Hotel when he learned of President John Kennedy’s assassination.

“We had a game scheduled that night, and we played,” Esposito recalled. “We might have been the only game that took place that horrible night. I had just gotten married. I wound up scoring one of the greatest goals I ever scored. We were two men short, and I went through the entire opposing team. Omaha, I think. I was so slow, some of my teammates accused me of skating through the same guys twice.”

Esposito on occasion saw Jack Davison, the Blackhawks’ scout, at Braves games but never thought much of it. As Esposito said, in those days, prospects knew there were only a few jobs available in the six-team NHL so guys in the minors went day-to-day.

“It was hard, but fun,” Esposito said. “You made maybe $3,800 with five or seven bucks for meal money. Hamburgers and pancakes. You had to get lucky to get called up and I got lucky. In January of 1964, Gus told me to get packed up. I was going to the Blackhawks. We were in St. Paul, they were in Montreal. First time I’d ever been on an airplane. I had 80 points in 43 games for the Braves, and still wound up in the top five at the end of the Central League season. Montreal? Chico Maki took a ten-minute misconduct and I played one shift.”

Dennis Hull came through the Blackhawks’ talent pipeline in St. Catharines, Ont., played 55 NHL games in 1964-65, then got sent down to St. Louis the next season.

“I guess I wasn’t good enough, needed more polish,” Hull recalled. “There was sort of a gentlemen’s agreement in those days. But Punch Imlach, the coach in Toronto, hated our coach, Billy Reay, so he put in a claim for me. Wouldn’t that have been something? Me on the Maple Leafs? I played the playoffs for the Blackhawks in 1966, then stayed for good.

“I felt like there was a target on my back in the minors, being Bobby Hull’s brother. But Gus was a prince. After years of riding the bus, the Braves had this old DC-3. That was nice, except for Gus, who hated to fly. He sat in the front with his bottle of whiskey until we landed. Lots of fun, Gus. He would have these meetings that would end by him saying, ‘now, do any of you have anything to add?’ He didn’t expect us to say boo. But one time, Wayne Maki speaks up and says, ‘yeah, I think Camille Henry should be on our power play.’ Gus says, ‘good idea, Camille is on the power play and Wayne Maki, you’re off the power play.”

In 1967-68, the NHL expanded from six franchises to 12. The Blues came into existence after fixing up the Arena that needed quite a bit of fixing up. The Blackhawks established a CHL farm club in Dallas, and soon Esposito was on his way to the Hall of Fame, via the Boston Bruins.

“Who knew in St. Louis that I could make it big?” he mused. “Billy Reay didn’t care for me in Chicago. It was all about my weight. I would go into the sauna to shed a few pounds and Moose Vasko would have a case of beer in there. I was a kid. What was I gonna say, no? I’d leave the sauna heavier than when I went in. But it all turned out OK, didn’t it?”

[bustoff]

My Mom and Dad used to go to the Braves games at the old Arena. That is when my Dad started his love affair with hockey that eventually spread to me and then my kids. My pop died when I was 13 so I didn't get to ask him a lot about the Braves. I know he was estatic when the Solomons' brought the Blues to St. Louis.The Braves used to send a beat up school bus to pick up people and take them to the game and back my Mom told me. I wish they would've kept some of those old programs. Excellent read Mags.......

[Blues 34]

Great read... Thx a lot

[fansince65]

It's kind of ironic that Mags did a post that included the "BLUES" , my niece's husband (Ted Ouimet) was drafted by the Blues and got to play in one game for them back in 1968/69 , for the next 10 years he bounced around the minor leagues , he at least got to the show for one game , a lot of us that played at a high level never even got that far , we thought we where lucky if we got a look at training camp for one day ..

[bustoff]

Originally Posted by fansince65

It's kind of ironic that Mags did a post that included the "BLUES" , my niece's husband (Ted Ouimet) was drafted by the Blues and got to play in one game for them back in 1968/69 , for the next 10 years he bounced around the minor leagues , he at least got to the show for one game , a lot of us that played at a high level never even got that far , we thought we where lucky if we got a look at training camp for one day ..

Might have a Ouimet picture. I do remember him. Never thought I'd be on speaking terms with an old Hawk fan. Mags is the best.

[fansince65]

Originally Posted by bustoff

Might have a Ouimet picture. I do remember him. Never thought I'd be on speaking terms with an old Hawk fan. Mags is the best.

That's real neat , Ted is still playing old timers hockey even after having both knees replaced , was talking to him just last week at my brother-in-laws funeral , he has put on a few pounds from his pro days , two of his sons have had extensive pro careers playing in the Swedish elite league , they both made some real good money playing over their ..

[bustoff]

Originally Posted by fansince65

That's real neat , Ted is still playing old timers hockey even after having both knees replaced , was talking to him just last week at my brother-in-laws funeral , he has put on a few pounds from his pro days , two of his sons have had extensive pro careers playing in the Swedish elite league , they both made some real good money playing over their ..

That gives me some hope of playing hockey again. I'm getting my knee replaced in June.

[Maggie3and Me]

Not ironic at all.

Several times I have posted to articles or comments about the Blues. I recall commenting on coming back to the States and being shocked at seeing the Blackhawks that were skating for the team in St. Louis.

The first expansion occurred and guys like Glenn Hall, Wayne Maki, Al Arbour, and Ab McDonald, were now playing in blue uniforms with a note on the front on their sweater. I understand that before I came back, old timers like Gerry Melnyk and Camille Henry also were members of the Blues.

Once the first two expansions took place, the original black and blue division was born. Teams like the Blues and North Stars were natural geographical rivals. The Canucks became another heated rival. The Flyers were in our division for only a few years, but, that was enough to get a good rivalry going, but nothing like with the other three.

Rather than list all the tough guys off of those teams, suffice it to say a great and bloody rivalry was born. In order for teams to have rivals, both teams must be tough and feisty, otherwise, you have patsy’s, not rivals.

I have mentioned in the past few seasons, that if the Hawks couldn’t win the Cup, then it would be good to see the Canucks win. It was nice the Kings won last year. I would hope the Blues sip from the cup also, if, the Hawks don’t’ make it.

I cannot say I would become a fan of that team, but would extend best wishes and hope to them on their quest for the chalice. As an example, this football season, in the last game, the Bears needed the Packers to beat Minnesota, so the Bears could get into the playoffs. Some one asked me if I was going to root for the Packers, I said hell no. I won’t root for them, but hoped they would beat the Vikings.

I like the rivalry with the Blues. It has been hard and tangible. The utter dislike (hatred?), between the teams going back to the days of the Pagers and nurtured through the years all the way up until now is real.

The respect I have for the Blues and their fans is just as real.

[bustoff]

Wouldn't have said that Mags back in the 'Chuck Norris' division days. But you get older and look back at all the carnage between the Blues and Hawks and you can't help but have respect. Still kills me the Blues are the last original expansion team not to win the cup. I just hope the Blues can win one before I kick the bucket.

[fansince65]

Originally Posted by bustoff

Wouldn't have said that Mags back in the 'Chuck Norris' division days. But you get older and look back at all the carnage between the Blues and Hawks and you can't help but have respect. Still kills me the Blues are the last original expansion team not to win the cup. I just hope the Blues can win one before I kick the bucket.

I didn't realise the Blues where the last existing team from the original expansion not to have won the Stanley cup at least once , of course the now defunct California Seals didn't win it either but they are no more .
It would be real neet to see the Blues win one , they came close a couple times ..

[Maggie3and Me]

I agree that it would be good for the Blues, their fans, and hockey in general, for them to win the cup.

It is amazing that they made it to the finals in each of their first three years of existence (1967-68, 68-69, and 69-70), but have never made it back since. I HOPE they would be able to not only make it to the final, but soon be able to lift the cup. The same thing I hope for the Canucks. They came into the league in 1970-71 and also lost three times in the finals, not ever winning a cup.

Of course, any hopes or good wishes for those two winning the cup only count when the Hawks aren't going to win it!!!!!!!!!

[fansince65]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

I agree that it would be good for the Blues, their fans, and hockey in general, for them to win the cup.

It is amazing that they made it to the finals in each of their first three years of existence (1967-68, 68-69, and 69-70), but have never made it back since. I HOPE they would be able to not only make it to the final, but soon be able to lift the cup. The same thing I hope for the Canucks. They came into the league in 1970-71 and also lost three times in the finals, not ever winning a cup.

Of course, any hopes or good wishes for those two winning the cup only count when the Hawks aren't going to win it!!!!!!!!!

I think a team from Vancouver (the Vancouver Millionaires) won the Stanley cup way back in 1915 , I think it was the Ottawa Senators they beat out ..

[bustoff]

Originally Posted by fansince65

I think a team from Vancouver (the Vancouver Millionaires) won the Stanley cup way back in 1915 , I think it was the Ottawa Senators they beat out ..

So if your not rooting for your team, root for the Blues. By the way, the Blues had over 10,000 at their scrimmage last night. Just a feeling in St. Louis that this will be the year. No animosity against the owner at all in spite of the lock out.

[fansince65]

Originally Posted by bustoff

So if your not rooting for your team, root for the Blues. By the way, the Blues had over 10,000 at their scrimmage last night. Just a feeling in St. Louis that this will be the year. No animosity against the owner at all in spite of the lock out.

Was talking to a sports reporter from London , he told me that the Blues are one of the teams that have sold out for the rest of this season even before the puck drops on their first game , good luck getting tickets too a game this year if thats true ..

[Maggie3and Me]

Alright!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

We have hockey and we have had some pretty damn good fights, including Orr with a TKO of Scott.

For those who think a TKO is a reach:
Definition of TECHNICAL KNOCKOUT
The termination of a boxing match when a boxer is unable or is declared by the referee to be unable (as because of injuries) to continue the fight —called also TKO.

(Soure:http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...cal%20knockout).

So, how is your favorite team doing? How is their won/lost? Do they look good or bad? How is the fighting going.

Let's do an early review and see what our opinions are. We can revisit this review as the season goes on and compare what we wrote to what has happened.