Old Farts Thread

[Johnny Pie]

That goes for me too Fan and Maggie, hope everything straightens out quickly
so you can get back to sharing your views and insights.

[fansince65]

Just a bit off topic .

Well guys my hockey season has officially started .

I spent 4 hours watching tryouts (scrimmages) for the London Nationals last evening .
Talked to the coach before during and after , he asked me after if any one player stood out for me , I told him yes , one player , said player scored two goals and set up two more and could skate like the wind , he looked on the smallish side (5-8 160) but is only 16 years old , the coach told me I had a good eye for talent , he said he had the kid penciled in for the first EX game .

Their was a spirited scrap in the second scrimmage , both players parents approached me to ask my opinion (they had seen me talking to the coach) , I told they their boys showed a willingness to drop the gloves , that goes a long way in getting selected to a team along with the fact both are big kids that play the game in all ares of the rink .
Both went away happy with my assessment of their kids , I also told a couple parents their kids will never make it until they improve their skating , they where not so happy , but agreed with me ..

LET THE FUN BEGAIN !!!

[Howatt8]

Originally Posted by Johnny Pie

I can now discuss Potvin without the hatred that kind of clouded any discussion I had of him earlier. After this year when has a commentator he said when asked to rate the alltime best dmen" Orr was like the Beatles it is him first and then everyone else". For years I hated him for saying Orr didn't deserve the MVP in the 76 Canada Cup, and actually talking like he was as good. Now I can honestly say he was a great all around d man could hit,great shot, good passer and good lugging the puck. I still would not have him #2. No way. I think Bourque, Robinson and probably Lidstrom were better. I would put him possibly 5.

That's funny, lol. As a Ranger fan, I still find it painful to admit how good he was.

He was hated by us Ranger fans long before that hit on Ulf Nilsson. Funny thing is is that I never thought the hit on Nilsson was exceptionally dirty. It was borderline, but Potvin was guilty of throwing a lot of dirtier hits than that one in his career.

He was also a big-time trash talker with a huge ego. Even though he was the captain of those great Islander teams, I've heard that he may have been the most unpopular player in his own clubhouse. His ego and his mouth were that large, lol.

Funny, but Potvin had a big rep as a fighter in the minors and did rack up some huge PIMs. He also pretty much ended the career of a guy named Bob Channell in the minors. Channell's career was never the same after suffering a one-punch KO from Potvin.

When he got to the NHL, he fought a bit early on and actually may have eeked out a split decision over Battleship Kelly. That's a big-time upset and a huge feather in Potvin's cap. However, I think his fighting declined for two reasons, one - he was a great, great player, and two - Schultz kicked his ass and I think that beating by Schultz exposed him for not being quite the fighter his minor league rep had previously earned him.

Potvin was always what I'd call a "sneaky dirty" player. He wrecked many a knee by sticking his leg out, and rarely got caught. All that being said, the guy could flat-out play hockey and was a nasty, vicious hitter, especially those hip-checks he used to throw. Man, those hip-checks were lethal.

[Johnny Pie]

He had the nack of getting under your skin with his ego thats for sure. The Nilsson thing just put it over the top with you Ranger fans. "The Beat your wife Potvin" chants at the Garden are still way up there on my list. Thought that was Hilarious. You are correct about his fighting Rep coming out of the juniors. That was another thing that irritated me. The Isle's announcers always talking about how tough he was. I have audio of his fight with Pete Mahavolich and Bill Mazer on the radio goes on about how strong" Denny" is. I wanted to put my foot thru the radio . I did enjoy the Schultz fight. But he was a great all around defensemen. Its funny but after he showed a little reference to Orr and had a little humility in that statement as a commentator last year I could finally see it .

Remember very little about the Kelly fight,except that it was in the Long Island I think.

[Johnny Pie]

By the way I have a few of the Canada Cup 76 games and Potvin was blasting players with big hits. Again in fairness he did throw some major hits thru-out his career.

[Maggie3and Me]

Originally Posted by Johnny Pie

I can now discuss Potvin without the hatred that kind of clouded any discussion I had of him earlier. After this year when has a commentator he said when asked to rate the alltime best dmen" Orr was like the Beatles it is him first and then everyone else". For years I hated him for saying Orr didn't deserve the MVP in the 76 Canada Cup, and actually talking like he was as good. Now I can honestly say he was a great all around d man could hit,great shot, good passer and good lugging the puck. I still would not have him #2. No way. I think Bourque, Robinson and probably Lidstrom were better. I would put him possibly 5.

I laughed when I saw this JP.

It is amazing that so many fans that did not have Potvin on their team feel the way you and I do about him. All time, I have to look at Doug Harvey and Bob Baun ahead of him also.

Good call on Tremblay. J.C. was smooth as ex-lax. He could pick your pocket, out finesse you, was very quick and had great hands.

Still playing around on the teeth, but see another dentist next week. All is good. You pull your big boy pants up a little higher and keep moving forward. I will get a list of the four older D men, the four younger D men, and my all time four up by Saturday.

Good response guys. I know we have some more opinions out there, lets hear them.

[fansince65]

Their is one defense-man we never see on anyone's list and I for one think he belongs their , I think of him all the time , in fact every time I stop for a coffee -- TIM HORTON !!

This man was still playing hockey and contributing at the tender age of 44 years old (he was killed in a car accident at 44 while playing for Buffalo) .
He became a full time NHL player in 1952 , played in a total of 1,446 NHL games had 115 goals 403 assists 518 points , and accumulated 1611 penalty minutes in that amazing career . He also won 4 Stanley cups , something some of the top D-men that fans have picked over him have never done .
He was not the biggest player at 5-10 180 pounds but some old time players say he was the strongest player they ever played against . He was afraid to hit other players in a fight because of his enormous strength , he would bear-hug them into unconsciousness , but was forced to fight more than once , the 1611 pim attest to that .
When I make my list Tim will definitely be on mine as one of the best of all time ..

[Gunslinger]

Well said Fan. Tim Horton was tough as nails and could play the game as well. While the first tier of the old school guys contains names like Harvey etc, Tim Hortons name definatly belongs in the high second tier. I wonder why so many of us old farts don't raise his name more often? Sadly he is more known for his namesake coffee than his hockey career.

[Johnny Pie]

Your right Gunslinger he is not talked about often. I know I didn't see him at his best and he was brought up mostly when people were talking about his strength. I remember reading of his fights with Sanderson and he fought Hodge in the Orr-Quinn National TV brawl game. Even though I saw him from 67-68 I know that wasn't his best. He was a rock solid d-man even then. Had some good moments with the Rangers and even as a Sabre he was strong in the back end.

[Gunslinger]

Johnny, when it comes to Tim Hortons toughness, I see him in the same vein as I would a Pat Quinn type of d-man. I'm not comparing them directly but they both could play the game, both were mean sons of bitches when they wanted to be and could drop the gloves when they had to. Maybe more of the younger posters in this "Remember When" topic can relate to the Quinn reference. Neither was an enforcer per se but could do the job when needed. I suppose another more current reference could be a Kevin/Derian Hatcher or Mark Tinordi type of defenceman.

[Johnny Pie]

They definitley were tough Dmen thats for sure. Quinn fought a lot more. I remember his Orr fights, Howatt, Nystrom etc. The Leafs could use a couple of Dmen like that right now.

[fansince65]

Well guys it's safe to say my hockey season is well under way !!!

In the last 8 days I have attended 3 camps and five ex games .
Was at the opening of the London Knights camp yesterday , I must say that this camp is filled with the most talent I have seen in recent years , their is 35 players in camp that can step in right now and play , this years team is going to be a powerhouse and the feeder Junior B teams are going to benefit from the kids the Hunters send to them .
This Is going to be an amazing season even if the NHL doesn't have a lock-out , have season tickets for three teams purchased and picked up , well over 100 games to attend again this year ..
My first road trip is on Monday for a 2 oc in the afternoon game . my first London Knights game is TOMORROW NIGHT !!!!
FOR ME THE FUN HAS ALREDY STARTED !!

[Maggie3and Me]

Well, here goes, at long last I give you my four old time (for most of you, to me memories), Original Six defenseman. They are listed in alphabetical order, not as number one or two.

Bill Gadsby
He broke in with the old Black Hawks in the 1946 season. He was 19 years old. He played in 48 games, had 18 points and 31 PIM. In his 20 year career, he played 9 years for the Hawks, then played for Toronto, the Rangers and Detroit.

He would play in 1248 games, score 568 points and had 1,539 PIM. At age 37, the year before he retired, he had his second highest PIM with 122 and had 12 points. He would retire the next year after playing in 58 games.

He was an aggressive defenseman who played with skill and toughness. In the 1950’s he checked Tim Horton rather hard, giving Horton a broken jaw and leg, almost ending his career.

Could rush up ice or stay back and play hard and solid defense.

Doug Harvey
He helped to revolutionize the way defenseman played the game. He was an excellent skater who was also quick and had very good hands. Instead of just knocking people of the puck and passing it up ice for his forwards, he would skate up ice on breakouts, handling the puck. He could pass it, catch it, set up plays, shoot and score.

As a defender, he played as solid a game as anyone who ever played. He renowned for his skill in picking the puck off of puck carriers sticks, or picking their pockets. He could bang with the best of them and had decent size, but why get tangled up with a player when you could out skate them and had as good if not better puck skills.

One of the big keys to Montreal’s run of 5 cups.

Tim Horton
In an interview with Frank Orr of Sports Illustrated, in 1962, he said the hit that Bill Gadsby put on him nearly ending his career, changed his life in more ways than one. He never did fully forgive the Leafs for cutting his salary in half for the 1955-56 season as a result of the Gadsby hit. It led to his first venture of a drive in hamburger stand, but barely broke even. A few years later, with a partner Tim Hortons was born.

People tend to forget he played for over 20 seasons, scored 518 points and had 1611 PIM.

With out a doubt, he was one of the greatest of all hockey players, not just defenseman. He had every tool a player could have at his disposal. Skate, score, pass, catch, set up plays, check, fight, play positional hockey, but most of all, he could see the whole ice. He could see plays developing or set plays up to be developed.

Pierre Pilote
This is not just a “homer” choice, but a legitimate HHOF, who fits as one of the best I ever saw. He played center before converting to full time defense. This gave him the skating ability he used to play stellar defense and to start up ice rushes. That fit in well with the arrival of Bobby Hull and Stan Mikita.

Make no mistake about his ability to play defense and to have an overall feel for the game led to him winning the Norris in 1963, 1964, and 1965. He played a complete game and could do it all. He was a tough checker and could hit as hard as anyone.

Pilote was on the small side for a defenseman, even back then. He has said many times that caused him to be more of an aggressive player, who could also drop the gloves when needed.

For his 13 year career he had 498 points and had 1251 PIM. In fact, in the 1960-61 season, he led the league with 165 PIM.

I had the privilege of being at the ceremony when the number 3 sweater worn by Mr. Pilote and Keith Magnuson was retired and raised to the U/C rafters. It was very touching.

In the next few days I will put up the list of my pick of the four D men who came after these guys.

[fansince65]

My first choice from the original six teams will have some fans scratching their heads as it is none other than

BOBBY ORR !!

Ya that's right , Bobby's first season in the NHL was in 66/67 one year before the 67/68 expansion .
I think that he was the greatest player of all time as do many others .

My next two Maggs has already done a rundown on them that I will not try too duplicate .

Doug Harvey .
Tim Horton .

This player will be only remembered by some real old time fans .

Marcel Pronovost .

Marcel was one of my favorite players way back in the late fifties early sixties as I listened to games on the radio all you ever heard was his name and Gordie Howe every time the Red Wings played the Leafs or Canadians .
He played for 19-20 seasons in the NHL the last four for the Leafs , he was what we refer to as a stay at home D-man that could handle the puck in his own end real well , rarely got caught out of position , one of those players every team hates to play against but loved to have on their team ..

[Maggie3and Me]

I didn't list Orr in with the Original Six D men because he played only one season during that period of time.

Even though he put up 41 points and had 102 PIM, it was entirely to early in his career to say that he was going to be one of the greatest players to lace up skates.

I reserved him for the post O6 so I could fairly judge him on his entire body of work.