Old Farts Thread

[peacemaker]

Originally Posted by likeeddieshore

Anyone said Gerard Gallant or Dirk Graham??

Too lazy to check but I'm almost positive they are both either above 5'10" and/or 170 pounds. Matter or fact I know they were over 170. Dirk was a stocky guy (a great smaller guy, but not small enough for this thread).

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Pockmarx

Prior to the 1969-70 season a story in the sports section of the New York Daily News mentioned that the New York Rangers had signed Camille Henry, Forbes Kennedy and Pierre Pilote to minor league contracts with the Rangers Buffalo Bisons team. At the time I was excited to read about these guys being added to the Rangers farm team because I felt it added veteran depth to the organization. Only Kennedy played for Buffalo that season though he was around for just a few games. I don't know what happened with Henry and Pilote. They may have changed their minds and didn't play or they were cut during preseason. The Bisons won the championship of the American League that season and their coach was a guy named Fred Shero. Most of the players on that roster were not particularly impressive, so I assume that Sheros coaching was probably a big factor in their success that year. Interestingly enough this team didn't seem to be particularly tough or crazy judging by their overall penalty totals. Shero was probably the kind of coach who played the hand he was dealt and would manage to find a way to win with what he had at his disposal. It seems to me that the most successful kind of coaches approach their jobs with a can-do type attitude and it appears as though Fred Shero was just that kind of coach. Another interesting note. Wayne Maki, he of the Ted Green Splintered Skull Club, played on the Bisons that year. I don't think Maki was ever Ranger property, I believe he was on loan that season from the Chicago organization. I'm pretty sure I have my facts straight on this story. If not please amend as per indicated. Add, subtract, embellish, polish or buff. I think it is an interesting tale with another what-might-have-been (Shero) had Emile Francis not had his head inserted into his anal sphincter.

Great stuff, I remembered Henry and Kennedy but had forgotten about Pierre Pilote. The Fred Shero situation is well documented. Ole Fred the Fog was a tough Rangers defenseman in the late 1940's and played on the 1950 team that lost in the finals to Detroit. He then was a minor league player-coach for years and then was a coach in the Rangers system for years and was very successful.
I've ripped Francis here for many things and hiring coaches was another one or supporting coaches. Francis hired Boomer Geoffrion and the guy got off great but once the NY pressure started couldn't handle it and quit in 1969. Bad hire one by Francis and he didn't give the job to Shero who was doing nothing but winning in the minors.
Then in 1973, he did hire a longtime Rangers minor league coach and ex-player in Larry Popein who tried to take back the asylum and make the fatcats sweat and the prisoners rebelled and quit on Popein and Francis fired Popein halfway through the 1973/74 season and had to take over again. Bad hire number 2 or at least bad job by Francis of not supporting his coach.
Then in 1975, he hired Ron Stewart to be the coach and Stewart was laid back and let the players run the show and what a bunch of out of shape, lazy, listless, and gutless bunch this was under Stewart. Stewart also had the stench of the Sawchuk tragedy hanging over him and what a disaster this hire was. Bad hire number 3 by Francis who paid for it getting canned himself in 1976.
The Rangers finally brought Shero home to the Rangers in 1978 and the Fog did take Fergie's team and take it to the 1979 finals but unfortunately by then Shero had become a bad alcoholic and he was gone early in year 3 and never coached again!

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by peacemaker

Kind of pointless, but I thought I'd throw it in here...

Big Jack will probably recall a kid named Randy Heath.
He was a little guy (160 pounds) who had huge skills and heart (apparently).

The Rag's took him in the 2nd round.

He had 2 linemates that were 1st round picks. Alfie Turcotte (Mtl; another little guy) and Cam Neely.

Heath had 150 points in his draft year, Turcotte 80 (40 games) and Neely 120.

When Neely 'struggled' in his initial Nuck days, there was talk that Heath, and to some degree, Turcotte made Cam, and that Cam shouldn't have been picked so high by the Nucks.

Heath finished his NHL career with 6 points in 13 games.

Turcotte finished his with 46 points in 112 games.

Cam Neely is a Hall of Famer.

BigJack may have some memories of Heath???

Absolutely, the kid was little and had a moustache. He reminded me of a white Nigel Dawes and I only say that because obviously Dawes is black. They were very similar players and if there were the amount of teams then as now, Heath would of had an NHL job! I remember him wearing number 40 and he had 6 points in 13 games in two cups of coffee as a Ranger and obviously had some hands. He wasn't speedy but a decent skater and was little and in that era of 21 teams didn't get a shot like today with 9 million teams.
To me, he was Nigel Dawes in the early 1980's!

[Maggie3and Me]

Pockmark and bigjack,

I found this regarding Pilote and the Rangers. He did not sign a contract to a farm team. He and Francis knew each other and he obliged Francis by working with some rookie players.

Quote: Legends of Hockey.
April 6, 1969 proved to be the final NHL game for Pierre Pilote. He retired having played 890 regular season NHL games, in which he scored 80 goals, 418 assists and 498 points. "I had started some businesses and Emile Francis had offered me a position to go to New York (Rangers) to work with their rookies. I had played with four or five rookies in Toronto — Mike Pelyk, Jim Dorey, Pat Quinn -- and got along real good with them. But when I look back, going to Toronto was the best move I could have made. I've been very successful in the Toronto area, I've been taken in by the ex-Leaf players (with the Toronto Maple Leafs' Alumni), I'm involved with the Hockey Hall of Fame. Toronto is the Mecca of hockey. They haven't forgotten me. If I was in Chicago, it might have been entirely different, but I'm glad I came over."

[Maggie3and Me]

Thanks guys for the new names for the All Small Team.

Here are the findings on the latest names.

Ilikeeddieshore,
Gerar Gallant ------5' 10" 190
Dirk Graham -------5' 11" 189
Doesn't meet criteria

caps05,
Dale Hunter -------5' 10" 200
Doesn't meet criteria

clydefrog,
Nevin Markwart ----5' 11" 175
Doesn't meet criteria

battleship25,
Mark Lamb --------5' 09" 179 D
Curt Giles ---------5' 08" 180 D
Will be added to list
Gary Hart already on list

peacemaker,
Cam Neely --------6' 01" 185 (for general info)
Doesn't meet criteria
Randy Heath ------5' 09" 160
Alfie Turcotte -----5' 09" 170
Not enough playiing and 64 NHL PIM between them

Will post an update of players added in the last few days to the list. Please keep the names coming. I appreciate your participation

[peacemaker]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

Thanks guys for the new names for the All Small Team.

Here are the findings on the latest names.

Ilikeeddieshore,
Gerar Gallant ------5' 10" 190
Dirk Graham -------5' 11" 189
Doesn't meet criteria

caps05,
Dale Hunter -------5' 10" 200
Doesn't meet criteria

clydefrog,
Nevin Markwart ----5' 11" 175
Doesn't meet criteria

battleship25,
Mark Lamb --------5' 09" 179 D
Curt Giles ---------5' 08" 180 D
Will be added to list
Gary Hart already on list

peacemaker,
Cam Neely --------6' 01" 185 (for general info)
Doesn't meet criteria
Randy Heath ------5' 09" 160
Alfie Turcotte -----5' 09" 170
Not enough playiing and 64 NHL PIM between them

Will post an update of players added in the last few days to the list. Please keep the names coming. I appreciate your participation

Oh, 5hit, I was just telling a story...
Alfie Turcotte and Randy Heath don't belong on any list, unless it's for guys who were 'busts'.

And to be fair, a guy named peacemaker mentioned Curt Giles name before Battleship tried to take credit for it. Just like you though B25!

[Maggie3and Me]

Originally Posted by peacemaker

Oh, 5hit, I was just telling a story...
Alfie Turcotte and Randy Heath don't belong on any list, unless it's for guys who were 'busts'.

And to be fair, a guy named peacemaker mentioned Curt Giles name before Battleship tried to take credit for it. Just like you though B25!

Now Now, lets both play nice in the sandbox, or a timeout may be in order.

peacemaker, I had to pull your chain about those three guys. Remember your comment about using hockeydb. HMMMMMMMMMMM

[peacemaker]

I'm going into the old time Canucks vault...

Dennis Kearns (held the Nuck d-man points/assists record for 20+ years, if not still with 55 assists)

Gary Lupul ( a "buzz-saw" local favourite of Nuck fans)

Gerry Minor - doesn't belong on the list as he couldn't get it done consistently at the NHL level, but I wanted to mention that this guy is one of a very, very select few NHL guys I have ever seen block a shot with his melon, on purpose. Not smart, but hard core ballsy.

[Maggie3and Me]

peace,

I have good news and bad news

The bad news.
Dennis Kearns 5' 08" 182

The good news.

Gary Lupul 5' 08" 174 C
I remember seeing this little sh*t play. You were right about a little buzz saw.
He had a yo- yo career, up and down. In the 84 season, over 40 points and 50 PIM. Will be added to list.

[peacemaker]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

Gary Lupul 5' 08" 174 C
I remember seeing this little sh*t play. You were right about a little buzz saw.
He had a yo- yo career, up and down. In the 84 season, over 40 points and 50 PIM. Will be added to list.

Yeah, he played an important role when we took your Hawks out in 5, back in '82.

He also has the distinction of being Mario Lemieux's first NHL fight. He got pasted, but was giving up 8" in height I believe.

I think 'Loop' passed away last year, really young. We may have to give him an honorary spot on the team, if nothing else.

[peacemaker]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

peace,

I have good news and bad news

The bad news.
Dennis Kearns 5' 08" 182

I tried to sneak that 2 pounds by you.

Kearns was always a chubby little frigger. I should have known.


How's this one...

Guy Charron
5'10 and 170 pounds.

A very good little man.

I assume Cliff Ronning has been mentioned.
That was a very, very good little hockey player.

This guy wasn't tough, but a very good d-man:

Risto Siltanen (I can bet you he thought his name would never be mentioned on hockeyfights.com)


Are these guys supposed to be good fighters as well? Or are we putting together the all time small guys hockey team???

[fansince65]

M3M here's two you should remember that I don't think anyone has mentioned ,,

Dickie Moore 5'10 168lbs ..

Pat Stapleton 5'8 180lbs ..

[Maggie3and Me]

peace,

What I wanted to put together was an All Small Team of tough, gritty, hard nosed players, who would also drop them, when needed. Howatt, Watson, Fluery, Mikita, types.

They did not have to be quite that bad, but you get the idea, ballsy little guys who were not afraid to play. We want guys who were able to skate and score so this team would win more than its share of games.

fan,

Thanks for Whitey Stapleton. He was unbelievable for any size. What a joy it was to watch him paired with Bill White, although it was for far to short a time. Thank you Bill Wirtz.

Pat Stapleton ---------5' 08" 180 D
Added to list.
Dickie Moore ----------5' 10" 185
Doesn't meet criteria. He would qualify by his play.

peacemaker,

Risto Siltanen?---------5' 08" 170 D
You dug for him didn't you. Added.
Guy Charron ----------5' 08" 180 D
Added
Cliff Ronning ----------5" 08" 170 C
Added.

What I thought we would do is add the names of those who have decent numbers to the list. Then, when we close the addition of names down, a final list would be posted. Those who recieved the most votes would be kept on the list.

Then, we could vote on who would be on line 1, line 2, etc,.

[fansince65]

Three more for consideration ...

Hubert "Pit" Martin 5'8 165 lbs ..

Dale McCourt 5'10 180 lbs ..

Murry Oliver 5'10 165 lbs ..

The three could play on my team anytime ...

[peacemaker]

Dale McCourt was an underrated player for quite some time. Good name.

I would have thought he was slightly larger.


It's really amazing when you go through and look at many of these guys from that era, they all were out of the NHL very young by todays standards.

Obviously their training is much better today, but the extra jobs via expansion as BJ mentioned sure has extended a lot of careers.

Looking up McCourt...

His last NHL season (he played 3 more years in Switzerland, so obviously wanted to keep playing pro hockey) he scored 47 points with 20 goals.

He wasn't wanted anymore. Considered to be done as an NHL'er.

He was 26/27 (turned 27 the end of January).

Many of these guys were spent by about the age of 27,28 or 29. It was rare for a guy to be playing, much less excelling at 30.

McCourt had been about a point a game player for each of his previous 6 seasons; he had an off year of 47 in year 7, and was done as an NHL'er.

Good name. A very underrated guy in my books.