Old Farts Thread

[Maggie3and Me]

Originally Posted by bigjack

Great memory!
We're the same age and that NBC song was awesome. I found it last year on You Tube and loved reliving it. Remember that Giacomin was the last player shown! I remember most of those fights also. I forgot the Dudley one for some reason but the Bert Wilson one was great where he cut Novak wide open in a short but furious bout!
My Dad used to always remark to me about Lindsay's face and scars whenever he was on camera and point out what an SOB he was and great player with Howe and Abel! He was at that Maple Leaf/Ranger playoff game with Hadfield and Parent and called me the next morning as we were living in Massachusetts. I know that CBS had the games then but don't remember if that game was televised!

By the way, Ron Harris won that fight along with the one with Bob Kelly!

bigjack,

You are right about Lindsay. What a pain in the ass, but oh how you wanted him on your team.

You mentioned him with Howe and Sid Abel on what was known as the "Production Line". In the 1949-50 season the line finished 1-2-3 in scoring. Hard to believe,but, Lindsay was was 1st with 78, Abel had 69 and Howe had 68.

I got to see him in the twilight years when he was a Hawk. A lot of people have wondered if our coming back as an NHL power and the arrival of Lindsay was a coincidence. My feeling is no. He was fiery and competitive and started to show the team how to win when he came over from Detroit in 1957. On the other hand, in that deal in July of 1957 along with Lindsay, we got a fella name of Glenn Hall.

I only saw him play once in person in 1959, I don't remember how many points he had 20-25, but, he had close to 100 PIM.

After helping to bring the Hawks back, he did not play on the 61 Cup team.

[FitzG]

Any of you guys remember a relative of mine that I only met once named Calvin "Parker" MacDonald ? He was no tough guy but had a few good years centering Howe and Delvecchio.

[Maggie3and Me]

Originally Posted by FitzG

Any of you guys remember a relative of mine that I only met once named Calvin "Parker" MacDonald ? He was no tough guy but had a few good years centering Howe and Delvecchio.

FitzG,

I had to have seen him play, especially during the 60-64 years. However, the name does not stand out. I'm sorry. I don't know if you have this or not, so I'll post it for you.

Quote:
Parker MacDonald began his career in the Toronto Maple Leafs' chain, and played his first game during the 1952-53 season. After finally getting to play full-time in 1954-55, New York plucked MacDonald from the Leafs' roster in the Intra-League Draft, but his fate was to continue to be shuffled between the Rangers and their AHL affiliates for four seasons.

When New York gave up on MacDonald, he sought out a doctor to examine his chronically sore shoulder and was astonished to find out that a chunk of metal was still embedded in it, the result of a broken drill left in him from a previous operation. Detroit grabbed MacDonald in the Intra-League Draft in 1960 and made him a regular.

Feeling much stronger, MacDonald showed the kind of offensive prowess his career had promised but not yet delivered--playing on a line with Gordie Howe and Alex Delvecchio can do that to a player!

In 1962-63, MacDonald scored 33 goals, eight of which were game winners. After five seasons with the Wings, he was traded to Boston, lasted just half a season, and was traded back to Detroit. During the 1967 Expansion Draft, MacDonald was chosen by the Minnesota North Stars. After two seasons in the Twin Cities, he retired to pursue a coaching career. MacDonald returned to Minnesota in 1973-74, this time to coach the North Stars. He lasted one season, and later coached the Los Angeles Kings in 1980-81.

Parker MacDonald was elected to the Cape Breton Sports Hall of Fame in 1987.

Games 676
Goals 144
Assists 179
Points 323
PIM 253
Seasons Played 14

It sounds like your relative was a good and solid hockey player. I hope someone else can remember seeing him play.

[FitzG]

Thanks that was great. I met him just once when he coached the LA Kings and they had just lost to the Bruins at the Garden back in the late 70's. If he was a brawler I would have tracked him down a few times. Maybe i'll try again before it's too late. Love reading all your posts the stories are great. Still can't believe "Fansince65" actually saw Flaman doing a number on Howe. Yup i'd sacrifice the left nut to have seen that.

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

FitzG,

I had to have seen him play, especially during the 60-64 years. However, the name does not stand out. I'm sorry. I don't know if you have this or not, so I'll post it for you.

Quote:
Parker MacDonald began his career in the Toronto Maple Leafs' chain, and played his first game during the 1952-53 season. After finally getting to play full-time in 1954-55, New York plucked MacDonald from the Leafs' roster in the Intra-League Draft, but his fate was to continue to be shuffled between the Rangers and their AHL affiliates for four seasons.

When New York gave up on MacDonald, he sought out a doctor to examine his chronically sore shoulder and was astonished to find out that a chunk of metal was still embedded in it, the result of a broken drill left in him from a previous operation. Detroit grabbed MacDonald in the Intra-League Draft in 1960 and made him a regular.

Feeling much stronger, MacDonald showed the kind of offensive prowess his career had promised but not yet delivered--playing on a line with Gordie Howe and Alex Delvecchio can do that to a player!

In 1962-63, MacDonald scored 33 goals, eight of which were game winners. After five seasons with the Wings, he was traded to Boston, lasted just half a season, and was traded back to Detroit. During the 1967 Expansion Draft, MacDonald was chosen by the Minnesota North Stars. After two seasons in the Twin Cities, he retired to pursue a coaching career. MacDonald returned to Minnesota in 1973-74, this time to coach the North Stars. He lasted one season, and later coached the Los Angeles Kings in 1980-81.

Parker MacDonald was elected to the Cape Breton Sports Hall of Fame in 1987.

Games 676
Goals 144
Assists 179
Points 323
PIM 253
Seasons Played 14

It sounds like your relative was a good and solid hockey player. I hope someone else can remember seeing him play.

[Maggie3and Me]

Originally Posted by FitzG

Thanks that was great. I met him just once when he coached the LA Kings and they had just lost to the Bruins at the Garden back in the late 70's. If he was a brawler I would have tracked him down a few times. Maybe i'll try again before it's too late. Love reading all your posts the stories are great. Still can't believe "Fansince65" actually saw Flaman doing a number on Howe. Yup i'd sacrifice the left nut to have seen that.

FitzG,

Here is his coaching record. Did you know he coached a team before the Kings?

Following his retirement from the NHL in 1969 MacDonald became a player-coach for the Iowa Stars of the Canadian Hockey League and led them to a 35–26–11 record, losing in the finals. He moved on to coaching fulltime with the New Haven Nighthawks for a year and then returned to his former team in the NHL, Minnesota, as head coach. He performed well with the North Stars but decided to return to coaching the Nighthawks, as the pressure was too great. He would coach the Nighthawks for the next five seasons, always with a winning record but always losing in the playoffs, including losing in the finals twice. He even received the Louis A.R. Pieri Memorial Award for the AHL's best coach after the 1978–79 season. He decided to give the NHL one more shot as he accepted an assistant coaching position for the Los Angeles Kings in 1980 followed by the head coach position in the 1981–82 season. MacDonald retired midway through the season with a record of 13–24–5.

[fansince65]

Originally Posted by FitzG

Thanks that was great. I met him just once when he coached the LA Kings and they had just lost to the Bruins at the Garden back in the late 70's. If he was a brawler I would have tracked him down a few times. Maybe i'll try again before it's too late. Love reading all your posts the stories are great. Still can't believe "Fansince65" actually saw Flaman doing a number on Howe. Yup i'd sacrifice the left nut to have seen that.

FritzG : Parker was not a big guy , 5-11 160 lbs , he was not what you would call a brawler , but he would protect himself as would every player from that era or they just did not last , the hockey was tough so were the players , the drill in his shoulder speaks volumes of the kind of men they were , When he got to Detroit he blossomed into a real good player , with line-mates like Howe And Delvecchio it was a line made in heaven ..

I met Parker on several occasions growing up , I was born just across the harbour from his home town , I know this has nothing to do with hockey but I was a sparing partner for Blair Richardson , if you are from that part of the country you know who he is ....

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by FitzG

Any of you guys remember a relative of mine that I only met once named Calvin "Parker" MacDonald ? He was no tough guy but had a few good years centering Howe and Delvecchio.

Wow cool Parker MacDonald is your relative. He was very successful coaching in New Haven for the Rangers in the late 1970's and I remember him coaching the North Stars during Gump Worsley's last season!

[bigjack]

YouTube - NHL Semi-Finals Close NBC 1974

Here is a clip that broke my heart. That rat bastid Hadfield was just shown sitting in the penalty box laughing with a fan and sipping the guy's beer and then they cut back to the action. The Rangers dominated the 3rd period and had the Flyers on the ropes and were called for a horsesh*t too many men on the ice call in the last minute as they were getting Giacomin off the ice for the extra attacker. Francis had Hadfield serve the penalty and NBC caught him laughing in the box!
What an asshole! When Francis saw it later he was livid and Hadfield was sent to Pittsburgh a month later for Nick Beverley!
What a friggen Captain!
First he has a front row seat as Schultz attacks and beats Rolfe in the first period and then at the end of the game he is seen laughing in the penalty box and taking a swig of a fan's beer!
Giacomin played his heart out facing almost 50 shots and lost 4-3 with 3 of the Flyers goals coming with guys camped in the crease. No calls there but a horsesh*t call on the Rangers at the end!
Yeah this game still hurts!
May 5th, 1974!

[fansince65]

Unlike other sports hockey has it's own "CODE OF HONOUR" , it may be the games distinguishing trait ..Hockey players watch the ice with grim intensity , they miss nothing , especially wrongs done to a team-mate..
Most of the violence in hockey stems from one form of aggression begetting another, Hockey's code demands tribal retribution for transgressions .
They also have codes within codes , one being that big tough guys fight each other and not little guys , example : a 5-8 165lb guy is not expected to fight a guy that is 6-4 225lbs , he is expected to do so against players his own size ..
Every-one feels the "CODE" , but no one knows exactly how it works , that's because not every one agrees on what just occurred on the ice , or what happened five games ago ..

Hockey's code may be elusive , but it is deeply felt . A bond forms between players as they travel , share hotel rooms , practice and play for nine months or longer each year , Hockey players become blood brothers , kin ,at least in the ideal . dropping in front of 100 mile an hour shots, risking injury, sacrificing the body for the team , blood flows freely in the game , but players are not supposed to mind ..

The "CODE" demands that every player on a team give his all , take his shots , give them back , but above all never let a team-mate down , or not take one for the team . That's more or less the code all hockey players live by ..

SO YOU WANT TO BE A HOCKEY PLAYER !!! Ask your self this question !!!

CAN I LIVE BY THE "CODE" ?????

[nighthawk]

Originally Posted by bigjack

YouTube - NHL Semi-Finals Close NBC 1974

Here is a clip that broke my heart. That rat bastid Hadfield was just shown sitting in the penalty box laughing with a fan and sipping the guy's beer and then they cut back to the action. The Rangers dominated the 3rd period and had the Flyers on the ropes and were called for a horsesh*t too many men on the ice call in the last minute as they were getting Giacomin off the ice for the extra attacker. Francis had Hadfield serve the penalty and NBC caught him laughing in the box!
What an asshole! When Francis saw it later he was livid and Hadfield was sent to Pittsburgh a month later for Nick Beverley!
What a friggen Captain!
First he has a front row seat as Schultz attacks and beats Rolfe in the first period and then at the end of the game he is seen laughing in the penalty box and taking a swig of a fan's beer!
Giacomin played his heart out facing almost 50 shots and lost 4-3 with 3 of the Flyers goals coming with guys camped in the crease. No calls there but a horsesh*t call on the Rangers at the end!
Yeah this game still hurts!
May 5th, 1974!

Funny you mention that game Jack being I was going to mention that I have
it on video which has the NBC intro at the beginning of it (wish I knew how to post on you tube).

That game broke my heart as well and think I went into a state of depression for a couple of months. What kills me is the Rangers had a good enough team to go all the way that season. They go and beat the Canadiens and came so close to beating the Flyers. Hadfield should've been skinned alive though strangely enough I remember the series pretty well but don't remember the Hadfield incident maybe because the Rolfe beating seemed to overshadow everything?

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by nighthawk

Funny you mention that game Jack being I was going to mention that I have
it on video which has the NBC intro at the beginning of it (wish I knew how to post on you tube).

That game broke my heart as well and think I went into a state of depression for a couple of months. What kills me is the Rangers had a good enough team to go all the way that season. They go and beat the Canadiens and came so close to beating the Flyers. Hadfield should've been skinned alive though strangely enough I remember the series pretty well but don't remember the Hadfield incident maybe because the Rolfe beating seemed to overshadow everything?

The Rangers twice defeated the defending Cup champs in Montreal in 1972 and 1974 and then lost to Boston and Philadelphia. Very painful losses. Bobby Orr was too much for us in the 1972 finals and the Flyers series was a home series meaning each team won all their home games.
In that game 7, Giacomin was unreal facing around 40 shots in the first two periods alone and having Flyers bumping him and being in the crease and all we hear about was the Rolfe/Schultz fight and yet at the end it was the Rangers who were dominating play and they couldn't get that 4th goal to tie it up!
Chicago is never mentioned but in 1971, Bobby Hull killed us with two great goals off faceoffs that won game 5 in OT and put them ahead in game 7. They would score another late goal and win game 7, 4-2. Bobby Hull was great!
That was a painful loss and then in 1973, we finally slayed Boston knocking them out in 5 highlighted by a great Ron Harris hit that ripped up Phil Esposito's knee and I was thinking weee we have our shot know to win a Cup and then they play Chicago and layed a massive egg! In 1972, the Rangers swept Chicago in 4 straight and 1973 was payback time for the Black Hawks beating the Rangers in 5. That game 5 was a listless 4-1 loss and I was so upset that I made myself sick and missed school the next day!
If all these disappointments weren't bad enough, we capped all this off in 1975 with the loss to the Islanders at 9 seconds of OT with J P Parise beating Giacomin from the left crease and our run was over!
From 1970-75, we had our chances to slay 1940 and just couldn't get it done! In 1970 and 1972, Bobby Orr was too much to handle, in 1971, Bobby Hull was great, in 1973, they just stunk against Chicago who lost game 1 and won 4 in a row and played solid hockey, in 1974, the goddamn Flyers and in 1975, the rat bastid Islanders!
Oh the pain and bye bye Cat and hello Fergie and later Fred the Fog!
About NBC, that song and intro was awesome. They used the same song for the NFL and it would get me pumped up! It's funny but in those days, I was like a player and would have butterflies before the games and all nervous and now it's like whatever! I guess as you get older you deal with reality much better!

[Maggie3and Me]

THE CODE

Fan,

You brought up the elusive term ”The Code.”

A lot of people today think that the code is dead, if it ever existed at all. Fans, there is a code, always has been a code, and always will be a code. As in any other code, in any society, you are going to have people adhere to the code and others who will break the code.

It is no different than going 75 when the speed limit is 65,or fudging the answer to a tough test question off of someone else’s paper. Every one cheats a little, but , few flagrantly speed or cheat. The same holds for all codes, even in hockey.

While researching this post, little is said of what the entire code is. What it did show me is that the code is alive, but varies by how some players use or abuse it.

Here are some articles regarding the Code.

Quote:

Believe It or Not, There's an Art to This
Posted Dec 17, 08 2:08 PM CST in Sports
(Newser) – Fisticuffs may be frowned upon in most pro sports, the Boston Globe reports, but the NHL has a definite, if brutal, code to fighting on the ice that goes back to hockey’s rural Canadian origins. Most fights are mutually agreed upon between players, and brawlers know who not to go after. “It’s the show of respect for each other,” one coach said.

Fights often start when players want to make a name, or as retribution for a slight like a hard check. But not always. “It’s different after a dirty hit, where there are cheap shots and guys are jumping in,” one heavyweight said. For those who fight, it’s a profession. “Nobody likes getting punched in the face,” says Boston’s Shawn Thornton. “But it’s a job.”
Source: Boston Globe

Quote:

The brutal knockout of Todd Fedoruk of the Philadelphia Flyers by Colton Orr of the New York Rangers a scant 20 seconds into the game March 21 was proof to many the NHL is filled with bloodthirsty goons out of the Paul Newman movie Slap Shot. What could cause two professional athletes to pound each other, asked critics, with the game barely started?

But to Fedoruk and NHL insiders, there was a method to the madness. Fedoruk knew he was a marked man since roughing up Rangers captain Jaromir Jagr on Feb. 17. That violated the unspoken code of fighting, intimidation and revenge.

As the Rangers' "enforcer" or "policeman," Orr had to send a message, says Fedoruk. Since hockey's code of honor says premeditated fights should occur at the start of a game, period or shift, the punches flew almost as soon as the puck dropped. Despite suffering a concussion, Fedoruk says Orr did the right thing.

"He had to let his teammates know they would be protected and safe, that they wouldn't get run by us," he says

Quote:

Sean Avery made things personal in the media, and players like Jarkko Ruutu felt that violated the code. Yet, at the same time, the NHL's swift suspension of Avery prior to the Dallas Stars' game against the Calgary Flames also robbed an aggrieved party like Dion Phaneuf his opportunity for rebuttal on the ice.
Ross Bernstein, author of the hockey book "The Code," once told me that "there's a certain amount of liability when you're a man and you sign up for this game."

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

THE CODE

Fan,

You brought up the elusive term ”The Code.”

A lot of people today think that the code is dead, if it ever existed at all. Fans, there is a code, always has been a code, and always will be a code. As in any other code, in any society, you are going to have people adhere to the code and others who will break the code.

It is no different than going 75 when the speed limit is 65,or fudging the answer to a tough test question off of someone else’s paper. Every one cheats a little, but , few flagrantly speed or cheat. The same holds for all codes, even in hockey.

While researching this post, little is said of what the entire code is. What it did show me is that the code is alive, but varies by how some players use or abuse it.

Here are some articles regarding the Code.

Quote:

Believe It or Not, There's an Art to This
Posted Dec 17, 08 2:08 PM CST in Sports
(Newser) – Fisticuffs may be frowned upon in most pro sports, the Boston Globe reports, but the NHL has a definite, if brutal, code to fighting on the ice that goes back to hockey’s rural Canadian origins. Most fights are mutually agreed upon between players, and brawlers know who not to go after. “It’s the show of respect for each other,” one coach said.

Fights often start when players want to make a name, or as retribution for a slight like a hard check. But not always. “It’s different after a dirty hit, where there are cheap shots and guys are jumping in,” one heavyweight said. For those who fight, it’s a profession. “Nobody likes getting punched in the face,” says Boston’s Shawn Thornton. “But it’s a job.”
Source: Boston Globe

Quote:

The brutal knockout of Todd Fedoruk of the Philadelphia Flyers by Colton Orr of the New York Rangers a scant 20 seconds into the game March 21 was proof to many the NHL is filled with bloodthirsty goons out of the Paul Newman movie Slap Shot. What could cause two professional athletes to pound each other, asked critics, with the game barely started?

But to Fedoruk and NHL insiders, there was a method to the madness. Fedoruk knew he was a marked man since roughing up Rangers captain Jaromir Jagr on Feb. 17. That violated the unspoken code of fighting, intimidation and revenge.

As the Rangers' "enforcer" or "policeman," Orr had to send a message, says Fedoruk. Since hockey's code of honor says premeditated fights should occur at the start of a game, period or shift, the punches flew almost as soon as the puck dropped. Despite suffering a concussion, Fedoruk says Orr did the right thing.

"He had to let his teammates know they would be protected and safe, that they wouldn't get run by us," he says

Quote:

Sean Avery made things personal in the media, and players like Jarkko Ruutu felt that violated the code. Yet, at the same time, the NHL's swift suspension of Avery prior to the Dallas Stars' game against the Calgary Flames also robbed an aggrieved party like Dion Phaneuf his opportunity for rebuttal on the ice.
Ross Bernstein, author of the hockey book "The Code," once told me that "there's a certain amount of liability when you're a man and you sign up for this game."

It's very kind to call any of these guys a policeman today. A policeman is a John Ferguson who played the game and fought for a meaning and with a purpose. Today it's a sideshow by a guy who can't skate and handles the puck like a hand grenade!

[Maggie3and Me]

Originally Posted by bigjack

It's very kind to call any of these guys a policeman today. A policeman is a John Ferguson who played the game and fought for a meaning and with a purpose. Today it's a sideshow by a guy who can't skate and handles the puck like a hand grenade!

Bigjack,

You used to have a Bob Baun, Reg Fleming, Ted Lindsay, or a Ferguson type player, who were all around players. They had to be. There was not the money in hockey then as there is now. Teams back then did not have the luxury of having a designated fighter.

Also, the Hull's,Beliveau's, Howe's, Mikita's, and so on, all had to know how to fight to stay in the league.

The game has evolved bigjack. As much as the foreign players and the rules changes, money has had the most effect in changing hockey. If you did not have the big money you would not have the other two.

Because owners and the conglomerates who pay for stadium namings don't want their money players, their drawing cards injured. They have to keep them form being run, or getting into a fight. They are the marquis players for the league as well.

The good old days will remain just that. The hockey was good and we are getting old. I don't agree with it jack, but, from a business standpoint it makes sense.

Some of the new heavy weights aren't as bad as we make them out and some are worse. The only constant is that we have to change with the game too jack, or else it will pass us by.

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

Bigjack,

You used to have a Bob Baun, Reg Fleming, Ted Lindsay, or a Ferguson type player, who were all around players. They had to be. There was not the money in hockey then as there is now. Teams back then did not have the luxury of having a designated fighter.

Also, the Hull's,Beliveau's, Howe's, Mikita's, and so on, all had to know how to fight to stay in the league.

The game has evolved bigjack. As much as the foreign players and the rules changes, money has had the most effect in changing hockey. If you did not have the big money you would not have the other two.

Because owners and the conglomerates who pay for stadium namings don't want their money players, their drawing cards injured. They have to keep them form being run, or getting into a fight. They are the marquis players for the league as well.

The good old days will remain just that. The hockey was good and we are getting old. I don't agree with it jack, but, from a business standpoint it makes sense.

Some of the new heavy weights aren't as bad as we make them out and some are worse. The only constant is that we have to change with the game too jack, or else it will pass us by.

It's true that the rosters are larger so there is room for a super goon and with 30 clubs and 700 jobs now there is plenty of room for horrible players claiming to be NHL players. The only skills they have are skating and size.
What kills me is the stupid expansion to regions that aren't made for major league hockey. Hell here in NY the media treats hockey like a second class sport so imagine what it's like in the sunbelt, south, and west coast!
Give me 20 teams and 470 jobs and I think the hockey would be very good. The rules have removed the great hitting that we knew from years ago but with 20 teams we'd see some great skills!