Old Farts Thread

[fansince65]

Bennettwolf another player on your list that got sidetracked was Mark Howe ..

Mark was not the biggest guy to play "D" at 5-11 185lbs , he was originally drafted in the second round by the Boston Bruins , never played a game for them .
Mark was one of the young players that opted to play in the WHA , in the 73-74 season he was playing for the Huston Aeros , after that he played for the New England Whalers , were he played until 80-81 then it was the Flyers , he also played for Detroit , 929gp in the NHL 197g , 545a , 455 pim .
The injury he sustained when he slid into the net (they used to have that steel center for balance ) it almost ended his career , the center spike entered his body between his Annis and spine , he was one lucky guy his spine was not shattered , that prompted the League to change the design of the nets ..
Does he belong in the HOF ?? In my opinion "YES HE DOES" ....

[BENNETTWOLF]

Originally Posted by fansince65

Bennettwolf another player on your list that got sidetracked was Mark Howe ..

Mark was not the biggest guy to play "D" at 5-11 185lbs , he was originally drafted in the second round by the Boston Bruins , never played a game for them .
Mark was one of the young players that opted to play in the WHA , in the 73-74 season he was playing for the Huston Aeros , after that he played for the New England Whalers , were he played until 80-81 then it was the Flyers , he also played for Detroit , 929gp in the NHL 197g , 545a , 455 pim .
The injury he sustained when he slid into the net (they used to have that steel center for balance ) it almost ended his career , the center spike entered his body between his Annis and spine , he was one lucky guy his spine was not shattered , that prompted the League to change the design of the nets ..
Does he belong in the HOF ?? In my opinion "YES HE DOES" ....

That's correct. I had forgotten the grotesque aspect of how his career ended. I do recall that i had the impression he was "impaled" in a most private area.

I looked over his stats today and they were impressive, especially if his time in the WHA is included. His tenure in Philly was longer than i thought. I guess i was really thinking of his five year run (or so) when he was a perennial outside shot for the norris trophy. I'm pretty sure he finished second to Langway one year or at least shared first team all star status with rod.

Very, very good offensive numbers from the backline.

I just looked up Oates as well. His career statistics have to be close to Gilmour.

1337gp 341-1079-1420 with 4 100pt years including a high of 142 and another 99pt campaign. He was the best passer in caps history that i've seen. Better than Ridley, Hunter, Gustafsson, Backstrom et al.

[fansince65]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

When i think of Gilmour, it reminds me of Adam Oates because they were both primarily set up men first, rather than goal scorers and had outstanding career point totals. In some ways it isn't an apt comparison because Oates was a "lady byng" type while gilmour was more of a "buzz saw" or hustling pest who competed hard at both ends despite being very, very light.

Speaking of wrist shots. I'm not nearly as familiar with Gaborik as i would be with Alex Ovechkin who possesses one of the very best i've yet seen.

A player that possessed one of the best wrist shots ever was Lanny MacDonald .

Two players on your HOF list that I dont think stand a prayer in he** of ever getting in are Eric Lindros and Dino Ciccerelli .

Now Dino had a HOF career but that criminal record is what will keep him out , he has a couple indecent exposure charges that will stay on the books forever ..

Eric Lindros cant rely on his mother for this one !!!
In my opinion he just does not belong in the HOF , he did not do enough to warrant being selected , Concussions are not a stat that gets you in the HOF , in the record books for the most times having your bell rung by Scott Stevens maybe , but not in the HOF ...

[fansince65]

Dave Andrechuk to me is a "NO BRAINER" to be selected to the HHOF !!!!

6:4 225lbs , drafted by Buffalo in 82 first round 16th overall , played for 26 seasons in the NHL , 1,634gp , 640g , 669a , 274 ppg (NHL record) , 1,125 pim .
Dave to me was one of the elite players to ever play the game , the fact he played for 26 seasons attests to his durability , his 1,309 points puts him in some real good company , one of my all time favorite players .

He will be in the HHOF no doubt in my mind at all !!!!

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Double

BJ, I watched Gaborik very closely for his entire career with the Wild. I honestly believe I could count on one hand the number of slapshots I ever saw him take. To your point, he has an awesome wrist-shot. For the current era I would have to give Sakic the nod for having THE best wrister, but I would put Gabby at the top of the next tier of wristers. While his injury history made him a pain-in-the-ass to be a fan of, when he is in the lineup, I'd put Gabby up against almost anyone today as one of the top finishers in the game. Enjoy watching him, Big Jack.

Thank You and yes he is a beautiful hockey player to watch and admire. His burst is amazing and he also has great vision and of course the ability to finish. It's something that I have written about here from day 1 that guys don't know how to finish today and are so in love with using a slapper that is slower to get off, not accurate, and also gets blocked alot! Watch some old Gordie Howe clips and his wristshot was amazing!
The best shot in hockey is the wristshot! Denis Potvin used to score alot from his left point using a hard accurate wristshot! I just don't know where all this great coaching is that everyone speaks about today when I watch the Kovalev and Nedved types play and not finish! Look at a Cam Neely-what a wristshot!
I could go on all day!
Hey a Bobby Hull used his slapper great and so did a Frank Mahovlich but more times than not the wristshot is the better shot!

[hockeybooks]

markus naslund belongs in the discussion of modern wrister's that could be classified as lethal

if he'd had the fire of a Sutter, he'd be debated as a possible HHOF'er

as it is, he's not even an unanimous pick to get his jersey retired here

[hockeybooks]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

I saw on ESPN that monday is the induction to the HHOF for the strong 2009 class of Yzerman, Leetch, Robataille, Hull and Lamourello (sp). I listened to a debate about next years class beginning with Eric Lindros and i thought this forum would be perfect for some reactions and thoughts about the potential enshrinees.

I'd be the first to admit that i am far more qualified to discuss the merits of players in football or baseball so i thought i'd just open things up and maybe learn something. Part of the reason is the difference, which is true in any sport, between seeing a guy play every day, as a regular divisional opponent or only the odd game here and there.

Some of the leading names are guys like:

Pavel Bure

Your thoughts, "board members", on any and all?

i'll take a crack at Vancouver's first true superstar

his first two years here were straight out of a Beatle-mania experience

YouTube- pavel bure rookie hi-lites...

another new thread discussed the seed of pavel's departure , the play-off rumour of his hold-out threat ,etc

pavel always felt the club never defended him properly, and once his honour was impinged, he never felt the same about playing here

the anonymity of first florida, and then NYR , better suited him. he grew tired of constantly being recognized , etc.

his scoring stats are HHOF level, even with the injuries taking time off his career.

YouTube- Pavel Bure Top 10

his charisma and rock star presence could never be properly measured in stats. i was lucky to see him score well over 20 goals in person, when he was a Canuck

and the building shoook like it was a Led Zep show, that was the kind of response he elicited. and dont under-estimate the sell-out after sell-out that happened while he was here, Bure was a big part of being able to justify building a downtown arena using only private money.

some tax concessions and zoning stuff worked out Orca Bay's way, but not one gov't dollar was part of the contruction budget.

and bure had a mean streak that should be admired here

YouTube- bure drills churla- " the Mother of...

YouTube- bure x checks marchment

he even scored 5 goals in an Olympic game

YouTube- bure scores 5 against the Finns

i love trevor, respect stan smyl, but bure is the greatest canuck of all-time

YouTube- greatest canucks - pavel bure

if Neely's HHOF worthy , despite his injury shortened career, than bure's almost 10 years of greatness should be long enough, too

he belongs in the Hall

[peacemaker]

Simple, admittedly biased Canuck fans opinion, but I second the sentiments of Greg Adams, Pavel was the most talented, pure goal scorer I have ever seen.

If the HOF is meant to honor the games greatest talents, as well as those who accomplished the most, he comes up a little short in terms of accomplishments (60+ goals short of .500, and no Stanley Cup). But he came close enough in both of those departments, that his extreme talent and flair should offset that, and put him in.

[Johnny Pie]

Originally Posted by bigjack

Thank You and yes he is a beautiful hockey player to watch and admire. His burst is amazing and he also has great vision and of course the ability to finish. It's something that I have written about here from day 1 that guys don't know how to finish today and are so in love with using a slapper that is slower to get off, not accurate, and also gets blocked alot! Watch some old Gordie Howe clips and his wristshot was amazing!
The best shot in hockey is the wristshot! Denis Potvin used to score alot from his left point using a hard accurate wristshot! I just don't know where all this great coaching is that everyone speaks about today when I watch the Kovalev and Nedved types play and not finish! Look at a Cam Neely-what a wristshot!
I could go on all day!
Hey a Bobby Hull used his slapper great and so did a Frank Mahovlich but more times than not the wristshot is the better shot!

Wendal Clark always impressed me with is wrist shot. It is amazing how hard and accurate some of these players mentioned shot the puck. As far as HOF I think little Dino C belongs too. He scored an awful lot of goals. Lastly fuk Potvin.

[Double]

Originally Posted by bigjack

Thank You and yes he is a beautiful hockey player to watch and admire. His burst is amazing and he also has great vision and of course the ability to finish. It's something that I have written about here from day 1 that guys don't know how to finish today and are so in love with using a slapper that is slower to get off, not accurate, and also gets blocked alot! Watch some old Gordie Howe clips and his wristshot was amazing!
The best shot in hockey is the wristshot! Denis Potvin used to score alot from his left point using a hard accurate wristshot! I just don't know where all this great coaching is that everyone speaks about today when I watch the Kovalev and Nedved types play and not finish! Look at a Cam Neely-what a wristshot!
I could go on all day!
Hey a Bobby Hull used his slapper great and so did a Frank Mahovlich but more times than not the wristshot is the better shot!

This makes too much sense! To your point, if a guy could shoot a 200 mph slapper, but needs 5 seconds to get it off, and can't hit the broad side of a barn when he does, well, that ends up being one seriously worthless skill. I think that's what's so frustrating to watch and why guys get nicknames like Plexi-Rexi (which is effing hilarious!). Amazes me why more guys can't figure out that quickness of release and accuracy trump velocity every time. A favorite youth coach of mine had a saying that sticks with me still today: "It's a game of inches. The six between your ears!"

'Nother thing about Gaborik: You're spot-on about his burst. Some guys were just born to skate, and although his groin may disagree, Gaborik is certainly one of them. One of the few players today who can literally bring you out of your seat when he takes off. It's almost breath-taking at times...

[brad houghton]

Originally Posted by peacemaker

Simple, admittedly biased Canuck fans opinion, but I second the sentiments of Greg Adams, Pavel was the most talented, pure goal scorer I have ever seen.

If the HOF is meant to honor the games greatest talents, as well as those who accomplished the most, he comes up a little short in terms of accomplishments (60+ goals short of .500, and no Stanley Cup). But he came close enough in both of those departments, that his extreme talent and flair should offset that, and put him in.

Pavel was electric and i think you almost had to be a nuck fan to get the full experience since they played at like 5 in the morning most of the time (at least thats what it felt like for an old man living in the Peg )

probably the thing i most admire about Bure is the fact that his best friend is still Gino.....when he was interviewed recently and pressed on his friendship with Bure, Gino said "he is a lawyer" (i hope i'm correct) and they still talk all the time and are best friends. call me sentimental but i think it says allot about a star's true character when he develops a close friendship with the guy who was his body guard.....to me it shows appreciation, respect, and loyalty....not a spoiled star but a good guy that gets what the tough guy goes through to keep him safe!!

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Johnny Pie

Wendal Clark always impressed me with is wrist shot. It is amazing how hard and accurate some of these players mentioned shot the puck. As far as HOF I think little Dino C belongs too. He scored an awful lot of goals. Lastly fuk Potvin.

I hate Potvin also but he was a hell of a player with a great wrist shot! With that being said, his crying nonsense in 1976 when Orr was the MVP on the Canada Cup was horsesh*t. Hell Orr had as many points on one leg as Potvin and the other guy could of been Vachon who had like a 1.42 GAA!
Potvin is an as* and yes Clark could shoot it for sure!
Agreed!

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Double

This makes too much sense! To your point, if a guy could shoot a 200 mph slapper, but needs 5 seconds to get it off, and can't hit the broad side of a barn when he does, well, that ends up being one seriously worthless skill. I think that's what's so frustrating to watch and why guys get nicknames like Plexi-Rexi (which is effing hilarious!). Amazes me why more guys can't figure out that quickness of release and accuracy trump velocity every time. A favorite youth coach of mine had a saying that sticks with me still today: "It's a game of inches. The six between your ears!"

'Nother thing about Gaborik: You're spot-on about his burst. Some guys were just born to skate, and although his groin may disagree, Gaborik is certainly one of them. One of the few players today who can literally bring you out of your seat when he takes off. It's almost breath-taking at times...

Plexi-Rexi, One of the origional Euro moron's with great physical skills and a pea brain! I used to curse that rat bastid out all the time and it prepared me for Kovalev and Nedved!

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by brad houghton

Pavel was electric and i think you almost had to be a nuck fan to get the full experience since they played at like 5 in the morning most of the time (at least thats what it felt like for an old man living in the Peg )

probably the thing i most admire about Bure is the fact that his best friend is still Gino.....when he was interviewed recently and pressed on his friendship with Bure, Gino said "he is a lawyer" (i hope i'm correct) and they still talk all the time and are best friends. call me sentimental but i think it says allot about a star's true character when he develops a close friendship with the guy who was his body guard.....to me it shows appreciation, respect, and loyalty....not a spoiled star but a good guy that gets what the tough guy goes through to keep him safe!!

Even as a Ranger with one leg, he was some player and finisher! It broke my heart that I only got to see Bure for around 30-40 games if I remember! It's like that poor Russian kid who the Rangers drafted who died last year. He was being compared to Bure and had scoring records like Bure at the same age and poof the poor kid passed on! It broke my heart!
Bure could play no doubt about it!

[fansince65]

Originally Posted by bigjack

Even as a Ranger with one leg, he was some player and finisher! It broke my heart that I only got to see Bure for around 30-40 games if I remember! It's like that poor Russian kid who the Rangers drafted who died last year. He was being compared to Bure and had scoring records like Bure at the same age and poof the poor kid passed on! It broke my heart!
Bure could play no doubt about it!

Pavel Bure played a total of 51-52 games with the Rangers in two seasons 01-02 / 02-03 , not to impressive .
at 5:10 192 he was not your biggest player , he was in the NHL for 13 seasons , in that time he only played 3 - 82 game seasons ,he had three seasons with less then 20 games played , he had 5 seasons with 40 or less as well , thats 8 years he did not even play half the season !! For his 13 years he played a total 702 games , and only played in the playoffs 5 times ( was injured most of the playoffs) ...
He has two trophy's to his credit , The Calder and the Maurice Richard (twice) , his stats for the games played are impressive , 702gp/437g/342a/779 points , better then a point a game average ..

HHOF material ??? NOT ON YOUR LIFE !!!!!