Old Farts Thread

[Johnny Pie]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

Speaking of the seals, that piqued my curiosity. Who were their best players? The only seals i can think of are Al Macadam who later went on to have a fine career in minnesota as an all around admirable forward and Barry Cummins who was mentioned in Dave Schultz autobiography as recieving a "rat packing" from the broad street bullies for mixing it up with Bobby Clarke in the chapter "captain (sometimes) courageous".

I can name quite a few Rockies but know almost less than nothing about either the Seals or Cleveland Barons.................and i'm only familiar with them because one of our fine infrequent posters, Howatt88 mentioned that Randy Holt had a few brawls with the BSB while in cleveland.

I had to laugh, the only time i've seen anything to do with Oakland was a fight video featuring Al Macadam.

Another bizarre question about defunct teams tough guys. Could Dean Turner of colorado fight?.....................and who in the hell was Len Frig?

I just recall a hockey card with the penalty minute leaders showing Frig's picture as being in the top 3.

Bennett, BJ is right about Frig with the Hawks ,I have him in a few scraps one with Vickers that was on CBS Sunday game in early 70's also his fight with Peter Mcnab from Cleveland and one vs a Leaf when Frig was a Seal.I have posted a number of fight pics involving Seals, the Cummings brawl is
still up at nhlfightclub history.When Hadfield fought Stewart at MSG he punched the linesman and unbelievably received no suspension. That one I posted here not too long ago.If you like I can post a series of Seal fights from the 70's. By the way Dean Turner's claim to fame came with the Rangers . He fought Oreilly in a preseason game and it was said that he did well. When he went to the Rockies in the Beck deal they fought again in a game at Boston Garden. The seals were involved in some major brawls in their day. Before Vadnais came to the B's he had the reputation of being a tough fighter along with being a very good offensive D-man.

[Maggie3and Me]

Originally Posted by bigjack

I hope the posts don't equate to age!

Regarding Carol Vadnais, whom I detested, was acquired by the Oakland Seals from Montreal in the 1968 Intra league draft. He played for them until he was traded to Boston by California with Don O'Donoghue for Reggie Leach, Rick Smith and Bob Stewart, February 23, 1972.

I recall him giving Magnuson cheap shots and mugging him twice in a game in December of 1969 while with the Seals. The refs got in and broke things up before they really got started.

The third time they came together Maggie was ready. Vadnais was not quite as willing to go with him this time. The refs signaled for the two to continue the fight. Maggie dropped hjm for the TKO win.

bigjack,

If what you said about posts here equating to age is true, I am about to pass Methusela in age and fan is not far behind. You aren’t doing to bad yourself though.

[Maggie3and Me]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

Speaking of the seals, that piqued my curiosity. Who were their best players? The only seals i can think of are Al Macadam who later went on to have a fine career in minnesota as an all around admirable forward and Barry Cummins who was mentioned in Dave Schultz autobiography as recieving a "rat packing" from the broad street bullies for mixing it up with Bobby Clarke in the chapter "captain (sometimes) courageous".

I can name quite a few Rockies but know almost less than nothing about either the Seals or Cleveland Barons.................and i'm only familiar with them because one of our fine infrequent posters, Howatt88 mentioned that Randy Holt had a few brawls with the BSB while in cleveland.

I had to laugh, the only time i've seen anything to do with Oakland was a fight video featuring Al Macadam.

Another bizarre question about defunct teams tough guys. Could Dean Turner of colorado fight?.....................and who in the hell was Len Frig?

I just recall a hockey card with the penalty minute leaders showing Frig's picture as being in the top 3.

The infamous Len Frig was a defense man out of Alberta, who was drafted by the Hawks in the 1970 draft. He was about 5' 10" and 185 pounds. He made it to the show in the 1973-74 season. He played in about 60 games and had less that 40 PIM, with about 15 points.

He was traded to California for Mike Christie and Ivan Boldirev in May of 1974. I did not think to much of him while he was here. I think his last year up was the 1979-80 season. He finished up with about 450 PIM.

[Johnny Pie]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

Regarding Carol Vadnais, whom I detested, was acquired by the Oakland Seals from Montreal in the 1968 Intra league draft. He played for them until he was traded to Boston by California with Don O'Donoghue for Reggie Leach, Rick Smith and Bob Stewart, February 23, 1972.

I recall him giving Magnuson cheap shots and mugging him twice in a game in December of 1969 while with the Seals. The refs got in and broke things up before they really got started.

The third time they came together Maggie was ready. Vadnais was not quite as willing to go with him this time. The refs signaled for the two to continue the fight. Maggie dropped for the TKO win.

bigjack,

If what you said about posts here equating to age is true, I am about to pass Methusela in age and fan is not far behind. You aren’t doing to bad yourself though.

Maggie I for some reason really liked Vadnais when he was a Bruin, I thought he was tough and was a pretty good offensive Dman. Of course when he went to the Rangers I thought he couldn't fight for crap and was nothing special on the blueline. Really he did win some when he was with the B's and I thought you would find this series of pics interesting. These pics were from a story on Vad from Hockey Illustrated. They make it seem like it is one fight which Vadnais wins but we know now they are from seperate fights. Read the caption under the last pic. If I never got that video Here Comes the Hawks which shows all 3 fights I would have still thought Vadnais beat Keith in this bout.

[Johnny Pie]

here is the finish

[Maggie3and Me]

Johnny,

As always my friend good stuff. Thanks for the photos.

The reason I remember this incident so well is because I missed it when it happened.

I was told about it and told about it when I got home in early 1970. I finally found videos of this incident and saw what you did, Johnny. If memory serves me right, Vadnais gave him a cheap hit along the boards at the right of the net in the first incident. The second, near the goal mouth, Vadnais suckers him for a second time.

The third time is when the refs motioned not once but twice for Vadnais to mix it up.

When he was with the Seals and in that atmosphere, I did not like him at all. With the Bruins, I thought he was a different and better player. To me, he came into his own with the Battling B's.

I felt he could take care of himself pretty good. He was a thorn in the side of the Hawks back in the early 70's.

[hockeybooks]

YouTube- Carol Vadnais

YouTube- Jerry Korab High Sticked By Carol Vadnais

YouTube- Korab vs Vadnais - John McKenzie vs...

and not a lot of footage on YT for the Seals

YouTube- Oakland-California Golden Seals history

YouTube- 19720215 Wayne Carleton seals at Bobby...

here's al macadam

YouTube- 19760314 Al MacAdam seals at Andre...

YouTube- 19760314 Hampton { seals } at Schmautz...

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Johnny Pie

here is the finish

Remember when he wore that big cheesy moustache with Boston and Vadnais was one of the alltime great stick men up there with Van Impe, Dennis Hextall, Clarke, Bobby Schmautz, Cashman to name a few!
Vadnais was the best Seal player probably for a few seasons!

[hockeybooks]

gump worsley was one of the last bare faced goalies , but here's footage of one of his last NHL games and he's wearing a mask

watch for bobby taylor's cool paint job in the Fkyer's crease

YouTube- Vintage Hockey 10 - North Stars vs...

[BENNETTWOLF]

I saw on ESPN that monday is the induction to the HHOF for the strong 2009 class of Yzerman, Leetch, Robataille, Hull and Lamourello (sp). I listened to a debate about next years class beginning with Eric Lindros and i thought this forum would be perfect for some reactions and thoughts about the potential enshrinees.

I'd be the first to admit that i am far more qualified to discuss the merits of players in football or baseball so i thought i'd just open things up and maybe learn something. Part of the reason is the difference, which is true in any sport, between seeing a guy play every day, as a regular divisional opponent or only the odd game here and there.

Some of the leading names are guys like:

Eric Lindros
Joe Niuwendyk
Doug Gilmour
Dave Andreychuk
Pavel Bure
Dino Ciccerelli
Mark Howe
Peter Bondra

The debaters were in agreement about Nieuwendyk as the only "slam dunk"

I figured i'd focus on two guys that might not get the most attention, Dave Andreychuk and Mark Howe. Howe was one of the first players whose grace and skill really made an impression on me when he excelled for philadelphia. I always think of him as the best flyer backliner, edging out guys like Eric Desjardins and Jimmy Watson. I admit i mention watson because i read that......moreso than from personal opinion..

Howe's dynamic skating ability was probably overshadowed by Paul Coffey but he was a force for a medium length run after coming over from Hartford where he was used as both a forward and backliner and compiled impressive numbers but i don't think he was fully respected for his play in his own end until his outstanding tenure in philly. Along with Bengt Gustafsson and Gaetan Duchesne, he's one of the players who sticks in my mind that helped me become a fan of hockey rather than just the physical aspects of hockey.

Dave Andreychuk was another interesting case with a bit of similarity. He compiled exceptional offensive numbers in buffalo but was seen as only having one great ability, being an outstanding player down low and in front of the net with superb finishing skills. He was/is a bit overlooked as a master near the net and on the power play when names like Tim Kerr, Phil Esposito, Cam Neely, Glenn Anderson or Dino Ciccerelli come to mind.

Seen as a bit of a "one trick pony", his career evolution was quite interesting as he changed into an ace penalty killer and responsible forward along with being a team leading veteran in Tampa bay where he contributed strongly to a stanley cup. It is fascinating that guys like big dave and Keith Primeau became defensive stalwarts late in their careers despite the drawback of below average speed. Both men rated selke trophy consideration.

I could also comment on Peter Bondra as he played in washington essentially his entire career. He probably is also a little overshadowed by other top goal scorers of his era (like Pavel Bure) but was an ace. His career wasn't that much different from Mike Gartner in terms of being the "go to guy" who consistently produced in washington...............except sadly...........in the post season. He was classy and is a personal reminder of the difference between european players worthy of indifference or disdain and european players worthy of admiration. Most likely a charter member of the "hall of the very, very good" etc but not a true candidate for immortality.

Your thoughts, "board members", on any and all?

[bzane]

YouTube- Stevens and Trottier Heckling Bellows...

[fansince65]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

I saw on ESPN that monday is the induction to the HHOF for the strong 2009 class of Yzerman, Leetch, Robataille, Hull and Lamourello (sp). I listened to a debate about next years class beginning with Eric Lindros and i thought this forum would be perfect for some reactions and thoughts about the potential enshrinees.

I'd be the first to admit that i am far more qualified to discuss the merits of players in football or baseball so i thought i'd just open things up and maybe learn something. Part of the reason is the difference, which is true in any sport, between seeing a guy play every day, as a regular divisional opponent or only the odd game here and there.

Some of the leading names are guys like:

Eric Lindros
Joe Niuwendyk
Doug Gilmour
Dave Andreychuk
Pavel Bure
Dino Ciccerelli
Mark Howe
Peter Bondra

The debaters were in agreement about Nieuwendyk as the only "slam dunk"

I figured i'd focus on two guys that might not get the most attention, Dave Andreychuk and Mark Howe. Howe was one of the first players whose grace and skill really made an impression on me when he excelled for philadelphia. I always think of him as the best flyer backliner, edging out guys like Eric Desjardins and Jimmy Watson. I admit i mention watson because i read that......moreso than from personal opinion..

Howe's dynamic skating ability was probably overshadowed by Paul Coffey but he was a force for a medium length run after coming over from Hartford where he was used as both a forward and backliner and compiled impressive numbers but i don't think he was fully respected for his play in his own end until his outstanding tenure in philly. Along with Bengt Gustafsson and Gaetan Duchesne, he's one of the players who sticks in my mind that helped me become a fan of hockey rather than just the physical aspects of hockey.

Dave Andreychuk was another interesting case with a bit of similarity. He compiled exceptional offensive numbers in buffalo but was seen as only having one great ability, being an outstanding player down low and in front of the net with superb finishing skills. He was/is a bit overlooked as a master near the net and on the power play when names like Tim Kerr, Phil Esposito, Cam Neely, Glenn Anderson or Dino Ciccerelli come to mind.

Seen as a bit of a "one trick pony", his career evolution was quite interesting as he changed into an ace penalty killer and responsible forward along with being a team leading veteran in Tampa bay where he contributed strongly to a stanley cup. It is fascinating that guys like big dave and Keith Primeau became defensive stalwarts late in their careers despite the drawback of below average speed. Both men rated selke trophy consideration.

I could also comment on Peter Bondra as he played in washington essentially his entire career. He probably is also a little overshadowed by other top goal scorers of his era (like Pavel Bure) but was an ace. His career wasn't that much different from Mike Gartner in terms of being the "go to guy" who consistently produced in washington...............except sadly...........in the post season. He was classy and is a personal reminder of the difference between european players worthy of indifference or disdain and european players worthy of admiration. Most likely a charter member of the "hall of the very, very good" etc but not a true candidate for immortality.

Your thoughts, "board members", on any and all?

What a lot of fans dont realize Doug Gilmour was not just a Maple Leaf were he got the most Publicity , he had played for 10 years in the NHL before he ever showed up in Toronto .
Drafted be St.Louis traded to Calgary he spent the best part of 10 years playing for both teams , he was traded to To Toronto were he played for the next 5-1/2 years , over the last 6-1/2 years of his career he bounced around from New Jersey/Chicago/Buffalo/Montreal and in 02-03 played one game back in Toronto .
He had some impressive numbers , 1,474 games played , 450g , 964a , 1,414 pim , HHOF material ?? OH YA !!!!!

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

I saw on ESPN that monday is the induction to the HHOF for the strong 2009 class of Yzerman, Leetch, Robataille, Hull and Lamourello (sp). I listened to a debate about next years class beginning with Eric Lindros and i thought this forum would be perfect for some reactions and thoughts about the potential enshrinees.

I'd be the first to admit that i am far more qualified to discuss the merits of players in football or baseball so i thought i'd just open things up and maybe learn something. Part of the reason is the difference, which is true in any sport, between seeing a guy play every day, as a regular divisional opponent or only the odd game here and there.

Some of the leading names are guys like:

Eric Lindros
Joe Niuwendyk
Doug Gilmour
Dave Andreychuk
Pavel Bure
Dino Ciccerelli
Mark Howe
Peter Bondra

The debaters were in agreement about Nieuwendyk as the only "slam dunk"

I figured i'd focus on two guys that might not get the most attention, Dave Andreychuk and Mark Howe. Howe was one of the first players whose grace and skill really made an impression on me when he excelled for philadelphia. I always think of him as the best flyer backliner, edging out guys like Eric Desjardins and Jimmy Watson. I admit i mention watson because i read that......moreso than from personal opinion..

Howe's dynamic skating ability was probably overshadowed by Paul Coffey but he was a force for a medium length run after coming over from Hartford where he was used as both a forward and backliner and compiled impressive numbers but i don't think he was fully respected for his play in his own end until his outstanding tenure in philly. Along with Bengt Gustafsson and Gaetan Duchesne, he's one of the players who sticks in my mind that helped me become a fan of hockey rather than just the physical aspects of hockey.

Dave Andreychuk was another interesting case with a bit of similarity. He compiled exceptional offensive numbers in buffalo but was seen as only having one great ability, being an outstanding player down low and in front of the net with superb finishing skills. He was/is a bit overlooked as a master near the net and on the power play when names like Tim Kerr, Phil Esposito, Cam Neely, Glenn Anderson or Dino Ciccerelli come to mind.

Seen as a bit of a "one trick pony", his career evolution was quite interesting as he changed into an ace penalty killer and responsible forward along with being a team leading veteran in Tampa bay where he contributed strongly to a stanley cup. It is fascinating that guys like big dave and Keith Primeau became defensive stalwarts late in their careers despite the drawback of below average speed. Both men rated selke trophy consideration.

I could also comment on Peter Bondra as he played in washington essentially his entire career. He probably is also a little overshadowed by other top goal scorers of his era (like Pavel Bure) but was an ace. His career wasn't that much different from Mike Gartner in terms of being the "go to guy" who consistently produced in washington...............except sadly...........in the post season. He was classy and is a personal reminder of the difference between european players worthy of indifference or disdain and european players worthy of admiration. Most likely a charter member of the "hall of the very, very good" etc but not a true candidate for immortality.

Your thoughts, "board members", on any and all?

If Clark Gillies and Dick Duff are in, how won't most of these guys not be in? Hell based on Dick Duff, Tiger Williams should be in! The Tiger scored over 500 points and his scoring totals are similar to Duff's and he served almost 4,000 penalty minutes. Imagine his point totals if his penalty minutes were Gillieslike!
Just a thought and what happens when marginal players are put into the HOF?

[Double]

Originally Posted by bigjack

Bossy fits into my Bobby Orr category! I hated Boston and the Islanders and hated when Orr or Bossy killed my Rangers but they were so good and classy that I had and have the utmost respect for them.
Gaborik around a week ago made a perfect wristshot for a goal from around 25 feet and I wrote that it was a Mike Bossy type of shot except that Bossy shot righthanded!
Bossy was so tough and took so much punishment and yet had major balls and all the shots and what a finisher!

BJ, I watched Gaborik very closely for his entire career with the Wild. I honestly believe I could count on one hand the number of slapshots I ever saw him take. To your point, he has an awesome wrist-shot. For the current era I would have to give Sakic the nod for having THE best wrister, but I would put Gabby at the top of the next tier of wristers. While his injury history made him a pain-in-the-ass to be a fan of, when he is in the lineup, I'd put Gabby up against almost anyone today as one of the top finishers in the game. Enjoy watching him, Big Jack.

[BENNETTWOLF]

When i think of Gilmour, it reminds me of Adam Oates because they were both primarily set up men first, rather than goal scorers and had outstanding career point totals. In some ways it isn't an apt comparison because Oates was a "lady byng" type while gilmour was more of a "buzz saw" or hustling pest who competed hard at both ends despite being very, very light.

Speaking of wrist shots. I'm not nearly as familiar with Gaborik as i would be with Alex Ovechkin who possesses one of the very best i've yet seen.