Old Farts Thread

[Maggie3and Me]

Chicago Blackhawks

Since this is the old farts thread, I thought I would post an article on one of the “Original Six”, and a team that I am celebrating a 50 year relationship as a fan.

I wrote down all I knew and remembered about the Hawks and the Wirtz family, who have been owners of the team all the years I have been rooting for them. It was then I realized that in order to do a complete story of this franchise, I would need to research what I did not know. This I did with some surprising revelations.

My first game at the Chicago Stadium was 1959, at that time as a 14 year old kid I was more concerned about the “Golden Jet”, Bobby Hull, and “Stash”, Stan Mikita, than who owned what.
Later, from 1972 thru the 1975, a few friends and I had season tickets at the old Chicago Sadium. We sat under the broadcast booth and as we were behind a net, we had a good view of the ice. Every time we went in the Stadium, I would get turned around, so I can’t say north or south. What I do remember is the organ was to our right and where the players and Zamboni came out was in front of us, on the far side of the ice. I went on line to find an old seating chart but could not find one.

What I have tried to do is give Hawk fans some memories and for those who know the club only thru these last struggling years, some insight into the history of a once proud franchise, which will hopefully regain its place in this great sport.
The following Quotes come from many different sources. I have 7 pages of notes and if references are needed, I will supply them.

Founding
The Chicago Black Hawks joined the NHL in 1926 as part of the league's first wave of expansion into the United States. They were one of three American teams added that year, along with the Detroit Cougars (now the Detroit Red Wings) and New York Rangers. Most of the Hawks' original players came from the Portland Rosebuds of the Western Canada Hockey League, which had folded the previous season.

The Black Hawks' first owner was coffee tycoon Frederic McLaughlin. He had been a commander with the 333rd Machine Gun Battalion of the 86th Infantry Division during World War I. This Division was nicknamed the "Blackhawk Division", after a Native American of the Sauk nation, Chief Black Hawk, who was a prominent figure in the history of Illinois. McLaughlin evidently named the hockey team in honor of the military unit, making it one of many sports team names using Native Americans as icons. For many years, the name was spelled primarily "Black Hawks", but sometimes "Blackhawks", even by the club itself. This ambiguity was finally settled in the summer of 1986 when the club officially decided on the one-word version based on the spelling found in the original franchise documents.

Owner and founder Frederic McLaughlin died in 1944. His estate sold the team to a syndicate headed by longtime team president Bill Tobin. However, Tobin was only a puppet for Red Wings owner James E. Norris, who had been the Black Hawks' landlord since his 1936 purchase of Chicago Stadium. Ironically, Norris had made a bid for what became the Black Hawks in 1926, losing out to McLaughlin. For the next eight years, the Norris-Tobin ownership, as a rule, paid almost no attention to the Black Hawks. Nearly every trade made between Detroit and Chicago ended up being Red Wing heists. As a result, for the next several years, Chicago was the model of futility in the NHL. Between 1945 and 1958, they only made the playoffs twice.

Upon Norris' death, his eldest son, James D. Norris, and Red Wings minority owner Arthur Wirtz (the senior Norris' original partner in buying the Red Wings 23 years earlier) took over the floundering club. They guided it through financial reverses, and rebuilt the team from there. One of their first moves was to hire former Detroit coach and GM Tommy Ivan as general manager.
Arthur Michael Wirtz (January 23, 1901 – July 21, 1983) was a powerful figure in sports and arena operation. He was the owner of Chicago Stadium, Olympia Stadium in Detroit, the Bismarck Hotel in Chicago, the Chicago Black Hawks, and the Chicago Bulls. He was the father of the late Black Hawks owner Bill Wirtz, and grandfather of current Blackhawks owner Rocky Wirtz.

He was a major factor in the growth of the National Hockey League, through his ownership of the Chicago Black Hawks. He and James D. Norris purchased the near bankrupt franchise in 1952 and though it went through rough moments, Wirtz and Norris turned the franchise around and won back the fans they had lost. He was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1971.
Arthur Wirtz died of cancer at age 82.

William Wadsworth "Bill" Wirtz (October 5, 1929 – September 26, 2007) was the chief executive officer and controlling shareholder of the family-owned Wirtz Corporation. He was best-known as the owner of the Chicago Blackhawks of the National Hockey League, who are part of Wirtz Corp's holdings. Wirtz also served as the Blackhawks' team president for over four decades

Wirtz became club president in 1966, the same year Chicago won its first ever regular season title. He embraced the notion of league expansion and became a major influence on the NHL board of governors. He served two terms as chairman of the board of governors, first in the early 1970s and again in the late 1980s.

Criticism
As owner of the Blackhawks, Wirtz had a reputation for stubbornness and frugality. He was vilified by Blackhawks fans for forbidding Blackhawks home games to be shown on TV unless they were picked up by national broadcasters, which only happened when the Blackhawks made the playoffs. As he explained it, he felt that broadcasting regular home games was unfair to season-ticket holders. For a short time during the 1992 and 1993 seasons, Wirtz introduced Hawkvision, a pay-per-view service that operated in conjunction with Chicago's local SportsChannel outfit, which cost $29.95 per month and broadcast Blackhawks home games.

Wirtz was also blamed for allowing Bobby Hull to leave the Blackhawks and the NHL for the World Hockey Association (although his father, Arthur Wirtz, was actually responsible for that decision). Wirtz was further blamed for the loss of both Dominik Hašek and Ed Belfour, for trading Denis Savard in 1990, for the trade of Chris Chelios to Detroit (in actuality, Chelios had asked to be traded and gave approval to then-General Manager Bob Murray when told Detroit was the most interested team), for the trading of Jeremy Roenick, and for the 1967 trade of Phil Esposito. Wirtz was also blamed for the Blackhawks' Stanley Cup drought, which is the longest in the NHL and the longest in team history.Under the ownership of Wirtz, the Chicago Blackhawks were named by ESPN in 2004 as the worst franchise in sports. Wirtz was also given the nickname "Dollar Bill" by Chicago Tribune columnist Bob Verdi as a sarcastic reference to his frugality in compensating his players.In 2002, ESPN ranked Wirtz as the third greediest owner in all of sports

On October 22, 2007, Rocky announced that the team was in negotiations with SportsNet Chicago (of which he is part-owner) to begin televising home games. That season, they began to show a select amount of home games, with Wirtz citing preexisting agreements Comcast had with other programming as a reason why not all of the remaining 2007-08 home schedule could be shown. Wirtz also hired John McDonough, formerly with the Chicago Cubs to become the new President of the team. .Many believe that McDonough's presence, along with the young talent on the Blackhawks team, will improve the team's marketing ability and reverse what has been a long drought in popularity.

Almost immediately after becoming the new owner, Rocky Wirtz began altering some longstanding policies implemented by his father, which many fans saw as archaic. According to a source within the Hawks organization, Rocky Wirtz "believes in spending money to make money," in marked contrast to his father.

Former players Bobby Hull and Stan Mikita, who were not on good terms with Bill Wirtz, have worked with the team in the role of "ambassadors,". another sign that Rocky Wirtz has been able to undo the damage to the franchise many attributed to his father. A big step showing that this damage had been coming undone came when the Chicago Blackhawks celebrated Hull and Mikita in a joint celebration at the United Center on Friday, March 7, 2008. Met with more mixed reaction was Wirtz's decision to lessen the use of the United Center's organ in favor of more prerecorded current music to attract new, younger fans.

I know this a rather long post, but , wanted to give an over view of the Chicago Blackhawks To give a proper over view of how bad the Hawks became under “Dollar Bill”, the reason I gave up my tickets was due his policy for playoffs. You had to buy all tickets up to and including the finals up front. The club would eventually refund your money, usually in June, but not after they wanted you to apply it towards next years seats. I continued to go on a game by game basis and never stopped loving them or hockey

From 1927 to 1986 3 Cups 41 playoff appearances.

From 1987 to present 12 Playoff appearances

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

Chicago Blackhawks

Since this is the old farts thread, I thought I would post an article on one of the “Original Six”, and a team that I am celebrating a 50 year relationship as a fan.

I wrote down all I knew and remembered about the Hawks and the Wirtz family, who have been owners of the team all the years I have been rooting for them. It was then I realized that in order to do a complete story of this franchise, I would need to research what I did not know. This I did with some surprising revelations.

My first game at the Chicago Stadium was 1959, at that time as a 14 year old kid I was more concerned about the “Golden Jet”, Bobby Hull, and “Stash”, Stan Mikita, than who owned what.
Later, from 1972 thru the 1975, a few friends and I had season tickets at the old Chicago Sadium. We sat under the broadcast booth and as we were behind a net, we had a good view of the ice. Every time we went in the Stadium, I would get turned around, so I can’t say north or south. What I do remember is the organ was to our right and where the players and Zamboni came out was in front of us, on the far side of the ice. I went on line to find an old seating chart but could not find one.

What I have tried to do is give Hawk fans some memories and for those who know the club only thru these last struggling years, some insight into the history of a once proud franchise, which will hopefully regain its place in this great sport.
The following Quotes come from many different sources. I have 7 pages of notes and if references are needed, I will supply them.

Founding
The Chicago Black Hawks joined the NHL in 1926 as part of the league's first wave of expansion into the United States. They were one of three American teams added that year, along with the Detroit Cougars (now the Detroit Red Wings) and New York Rangers. Most of the Hawks' original players came from the Portland Rosebuds of the Western Canada Hockey League, which had folded the previous season.

The Black Hawks' first owner was coffee tycoon Frederic McLaughlin. He had been a commander with the 333rd Machine Gun Battalion of the 86th Infantry Division during World War I. This Division was nicknamed the "Blackhawk Division", after a Native American of the Sauk nation, Chief Black Hawk, who was a prominent figure in the history of Illinois. McLaughlin evidently named the hockey team in honor of the military unit, making it one of many sports team names using Native Americans as icons. For many years, the name was spelled primarily "Black Hawks", but sometimes "Blackhawks", even by the club itself. This ambiguity was finally settled in the summer of 1986 when the club officially decided on the one-word version based on the spelling found in the original franchise documents.

Owner and founder Frederic McLaughlin died in 1944. His estate sold the team to a syndicate headed by longtime team president Bill Tobin. However, Tobin was only a puppet for Red Wings owner James E. Norris, who had been the Black Hawks' landlord since his 1936 purchase of Chicago Stadium. Ironically, Norris had made a bid for what became the Black Hawks in 1926, losing out to McLaughlin. For the next eight years, the Norris-Tobin ownership, as a rule, paid almost no attention to the Black Hawks. Nearly every trade made between Detroit and Chicago ended up being Red Wing heists. As a result, for the next several years, Chicago was the model of futility in the NHL. Between 1945 and 1958, they only made the playoffs twice.

Upon Norris' death, his eldest son, James D. Norris, and Red Wings minority owner Arthur Wirtz (the senior Norris' original partner in buying the Red Wings 23 years earlier) took over the floundering club. They guided it through financial reverses, and rebuilt the team from there. One of their first moves was to hire former Detroit coach and GM Tommy Ivan as general manager.
Arthur Michael Wirtz (January 23, 1901 – July 21, 1983) was a powerful figure in sports and arena operation. He was the owner of Chicago Stadium, Olympia Stadium in Detroit, the Bismarck Hotel in Chicago, the Chicago Black Hawks, and the Chicago Bulls. He was the father of the late Black Hawks owner Bill Wirtz, and grandfather of current Blackhawks owner Rocky Wirtz.

He was a major factor in the growth of the National Hockey League, through his ownership of the Chicago Black Hawks. He and James D. Norris purchased the near bankrupt franchise in 1952 and though it went through rough moments, Wirtz and Norris turned the franchise around and won back the fans they had lost. He was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1971.
Arthur Wirtz died of cancer at age 82.

William Wadsworth "Bill" Wirtz (October 5, 1929 – September 26, 2007) was the chief executive officer and controlling shareholder of the family-owned Wirtz Corporation. He was best-known as the owner of the Chicago Blackhawks of the National Hockey League, who are part of Wirtz Corp's holdings. Wirtz also served as the Blackhawks' team president for over four decades

Wirtz became club president in 1966, the same year Chicago won its first ever regular season title. He embraced the notion of league expansion and became a major influence on the NHL board of governors. He served two terms as chairman of the board of governors, first in the early 1970s and again in the late 1980s.

Criticism
As owner of the Blackhawks, Wirtz had a reputation for stubbornness and frugality. He was vilified by Blackhawks fans for forbidding Blackhawks home games to be shown on TV unless they were picked up by national broadcasters, which only happened when the Blackhawks made the playoffs. As he explained it, he felt that broadcasting regular home games was unfair to season-ticket holders. For a short time during the 1992 and 1993 seasons, Wirtz introduced Hawkvision, a pay-per-view service that operated in conjunction with Chicago's local SportsChannel outfit, which cost $29.95 per month and broadcast Blackhawks home games.

Wirtz was also blamed for allowing Bobby Hull to leave the Blackhawks and the NHL for the World Hockey Association (although his father, Arthur Wirtz, was actually responsible for that decision). Wirtz was further blamed for the loss of both Dominik Hašek and Ed Belfour, for trading Denis Savard in 1990, for the trade of Chris Chelios to Detroit (in actuality, Chelios had asked to be traded and gave approval to then-General Manager Bob Murray when told Detroit was the most interested team), for the trading of Jeremy Roenick, and for the 1967 trade of Phil Esposito. Wirtz was also blamed for the Blackhawks' Stanley Cup drought, which is the longest in the NHL and the longest in team history.Under the ownership of Wirtz, the Chicago Blackhawks were named by ESPN in 2004 as the worst franchise in sports. Wirtz was also given the nickname "Dollar Bill" by Chicago Tribune columnist Bob Verdi as a sarcastic reference to his frugality in compensating his players.In 2002, ESPN ranked Wirtz as the third greediest owner in all of sports

On October 22, 2007, Rocky announced that the team was in negotiations with SportsNet Chicago (of which he is part-owner) to begin televising home games. That season, they began to show a select amount of home games, with Wirtz citing preexisting agreements Comcast had with other programming as a reason why not all of the remaining 2007-08 home schedule could be shown. Wirtz also hired John McDonough, formerly with the Chicago Cubs to become the new President of the team. .Many believe that McDonough's presence, along with the young talent on the Blackhawks team, will improve the team's marketing ability and reverse what has been a long drought in popularity.

Almost immediately after becoming the new owner, Rocky Wirtz began altering some longstanding policies implemented by his father, which many fans saw as archaic. According to a source within the Hawks organization, Rocky Wirtz "believes in spending money to make money," in marked contrast to his father.

Former players Bobby Hull and Stan Mikita, who were not on good terms with Bill Wirtz, have worked with the team in the role of "ambassadors,". another sign that Rocky Wirtz has been able to undo the damage to the franchise many attributed to his father. A big step showing that this damage had been coming undone came when the Chicago Blackhawks celebrated Hull and Mikita in a joint celebration at the United Center on Friday, March 7, 2008. Met with more mixed reaction was Wirtz's decision to lessen the use of the United Center's organ in favor of more prerecorded current music to attract new, younger fans.

I know this a rather long post, but , wanted to give an over view of the Chicago Blackhawks To give a proper over view of how bad the Hawks became under “Dollar Bill”, the reason I gave up my tickets was due his policy for playoffs. You had to buy all tickets up to and including the finals up front. The club would eventually refund your money, usually in June, but not after they wanted you to apply it towards next years seats. I continued to go on a game by game basis and never stopped loving them or hockey

From 1927 to 1986 3 Cups 41 playoff appearances.

From 1987 to present 12 Playoff appearances

I feel your pain. We have a clown owner now at MSG named James Dolan who has watched the Knicks become a joke and the Rangers were a joke and are better but not great!

[hockey doc]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

Chicago Blackhawks

Since this is the old farts thread, I thought I would post an article on one of the “Original Six”, and a team that I am celebrating a 50 year relationship as a fan.

I wrote down all I knew and remembered about the Hawks and the Wirtz family, who have been owners of the team all the years I have been rooting for them. It was then I realized that in order to do a complete story of this franchise, I would need to research what I did not know. This I did with some surprising revelations.

My first game at the Chicago Stadium was 1959, at that time as a 14 year old kid I was more concerned about the “Golden Jet”, Bobby Hull, and “Stash”, Stan Mikita, than who owned what.
Later, from 1972 thru the 1975, a few friends and I had season tickets at the old Chicago Sadium. We sat under the broadcast booth and as we were behind a net, we had a good view of the ice. Every time we went in the Stadium, I would get turned around, so I can’t say north or south. What I do remember is the organ was to our right and where the players and Zamboni came out was in front of us, on the far side of the ice. I went on line to find an old seating chart but could not find one.

What I have tried to do is give Hawk fans some memories and for those who know the club only thru these last struggling years, some insight into the history of a once proud franchise, which will hopefully regain its place in this great sport.
The following Quotes come from many different sources. I have 7 pages of notes and if references are needed, I will supply them.

Founding
The Chicago Black Hawks joined the NHL in 1926 as part of the league's first wave of expansion into the United States. They were one of three American teams added that year, along with the Detroit Cougars (now the Detroit Red Wings) and New York Rangers. Most of the Hawks' original players came from the Portland Rosebuds of the Western Canada Hockey League, which had folded the previous season.

The Black Hawks' first owner was coffee tycoon Frederic McLaughlin. He had been a commander with the 333rd Machine Gun Battalion of the 86th Infantry Division during World War I. This Division was nicknamed the "Blackhawk Division", after a Native American of the Sauk nation, Chief Black Hawk, who was a prominent figure in the history of Illinois. McLaughlin evidently named the hockey team in honor of the military unit, making it one of many sports team names using Native Americans as icons. For many years, the name was spelled primarily "Black Hawks", but sometimes "Blackhawks", even by the club itself. This ambiguity was finally settled in the summer of 1986 when the club officially decided on the one-word version based on the spelling found in the original franchise documents.

Owner and founder Frederic McLaughlin died in 1944. His estate sold the team to a syndicate headed by longtime team president Bill Tobin. However, Tobin was only a puppet for Red Wings owner James E. Norris, who had been the Black Hawks' landlord since his 1936 purchase of Chicago Stadium. Ironically, Norris had made a bid for what became the Black Hawks in 1926, losing out to McLaughlin. For the next eight years, the Norris-Tobin ownership, as a rule, paid almost no attention to the Black Hawks. Nearly every trade made between Detroit and Chicago ended up being Red Wing heists. As a result, for the next several years, Chicago was the model of futility in the NHL. Between 1945 and 1958, they only made the playoffs twice.

Upon Norris' death, his eldest son, James D. Norris, and Red Wings minority owner Arthur Wirtz (the senior Norris' original partner in buying the Red Wings 23 years earlier) took over the floundering club. They guided it through financial reverses, and rebuilt the team from there. One of their first moves was to hire former Detroit coach and GM Tommy Ivan as general manager.
Arthur Michael Wirtz (January 23, 1901 – July 21, 1983) was a powerful figure in sports and arena operation. He was the owner of Chicago Stadium, Olympia Stadium in Detroit, the Bismarck Hotel in Chicago, the Chicago Black Hawks, and the Chicago Bulls. He was the father of the late Black Hawks owner Bill Wirtz, and grandfather of current Blackhawks owner Rocky Wirtz.

He was a major factor in the growth of the National Hockey League, through his ownership of the Chicago Black Hawks. He and James D. Norris purchased the near bankrupt franchise in 1952 and though it went through rough moments, Wirtz and Norris turned the franchise around and won back the fans they had lost. He was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1971.
Arthur Wirtz died of cancer at age 82.

William Wadsworth "Bill" Wirtz (October 5, 1929 – September 26, 2007) was the chief executive officer and controlling shareholder of the family-owned Wirtz Corporation. He was best-known as the owner of the Chicago Blackhawks of the National Hockey League, who are part of Wirtz Corp's holdings. Wirtz also served as the Blackhawks' team president for over four decades

Wirtz became club president in 1966, the same year Chicago won its first ever regular season title. He embraced the notion of league expansion and became a major influence on the NHL board of governors. He served two terms as chairman of the board of governors, first in the early 1970s and again in the late 1980s.

Criticism
As owner of the Blackhawks, Wirtz had a reputation for stubbornness and frugality. He was vilified by Blackhawks fans for forbidding Blackhawks home games to be shown on TV unless they were picked up by national broadcasters, which only happened when the Blackhawks made the playoffs. As he explained it, he felt that broadcasting regular home games was unfair to season-ticket holders. For a short time during the 1992 and 1993 seasons, Wirtz introduced Hawkvision, a pay-per-view service that operated in conjunction with Chicago's local SportsChannel outfit, which cost $29.95 per month and broadcast Blackhawks home games.

Wirtz was also blamed for allowing Bobby Hull to leave the Blackhawks and the NHL for the World Hockey Association (although his father, Arthur Wirtz, was actually responsible for that decision). Wirtz was further blamed for the loss of both Dominik Hašek and Ed Belfour, for trading Denis Savard in 1990, for the trade of Chris Chelios to Detroit (in actuality, Chelios had asked to be traded and gave approval to then-General Manager Bob Murray when told Detroit was the most interested team), for the trading of Jeremy Roenick, and for the 1967 trade of Phil Esposito. Wirtz was also blamed for the Blackhawks' Stanley Cup drought, which is the longest in the NHL and the longest in team history.Under the ownership of Wirtz, the Chicago Blackhawks were named by ESPN in 2004 as the worst franchise in sports. Wirtz was also given the nickname "Dollar Bill" by Chicago Tribune columnist Bob Verdi as a sarcastic reference to his frugality in compensating his players.In 2002, ESPN ranked Wirtz as the third greediest owner in all of sports

On October 22, 2007, Rocky announced that the team was in negotiations with SportsNet Chicago (of which he is part-owner) to begin televising home games. That season, they began to show a select amount of home games, with Wirtz citing preexisting agreements Comcast had with other programming as a reason why not all of the remaining 2007-08 home schedule could be shown. Wirtz also hired John McDonough, formerly with the Chicago Cubs to become the new President of the team. .Many believe that McDonough's presence, along with the young talent on the Blackhawks team, will improve the team's marketing ability and reverse what has been a long drought in popularity.

Almost immediately after becoming the new owner, Rocky Wirtz began altering some longstanding policies implemented by his father, which many fans saw as archaic. According to a source within the Hawks organization, Rocky Wirtz "believes in spending money to make money," in marked contrast to his father.

Former players Bobby Hull and Stan Mikita, who were not on good terms with Bill Wirtz, have worked with the team in the role of "ambassadors,". another sign that Rocky Wirtz has been able to undo the damage to the franchise many attributed to his father. A big step showing that this damage had been coming undone came when the Chicago Blackhawks celebrated Hull and Mikita in a joint celebration at the United Center on Friday, March 7, 2008. Met with more mixed reaction was Wirtz's decision to lessen the use of the United Center's organ in favor of more prerecorded current music to attract new, younger fans.

I know this a rather long post, but , wanted to give an over view of the Chicago Blackhawks To give a proper over view of how bad the Hawks became under “Dollar Bill”, the reason I gave up my tickets was due his policy for playoffs. You had to buy all tickets up to and including the finals up front. The club would eventually refund your money, usually in June, but not after they wanted you to apply it towards next years seats. I continued to go on a game by game basis and never stopped loving them or hockey

From 1927 to 1986 3 Cups 41 playoff appearances.

From 1987 to present 12 Playoff appearances

Very informative and interesting post, good job Mags. I always wondered how the Blackhawks got their name, good stuff. The old arena with that organ was the hardest place to play for visiting teams because of the noise factor. I know the Flyers hated to go there and probably every other team did too. The B'Hawks had some great teams and probably should have won more cups but they always seemed to come up one goal short in the finals. Maybe they were snakebitten like the Cubs. The lean years have gone on for too long because the owner was a cheapskate but that is all history now because the B-Hawks have a good young team that is on the rise and should be very competitive for many years to come.

[Maggie3and Me]

Doc,

Thanks for your good words about the current team. It is one of the youngest in the league. I sincerely hope management has learned its lessons from past mistakes regarding its players.

Rocky Wirtz to this point, is doing a good job, make that a great job of trying to bring back the fan base. We are drawing 22,000 people per home game and there is a lot excitement and expectations for this year. At the minimum, for the first time since 2002-03 season, and only the second time since the 96-97 season, we are going to make the playoffs.

I'm glad you found the post informative. I thought I had a pretty good handle on Hawk history until I researched this post. I was surprised by what I found especially about the early history.

[Maggie3and Me]

Pierre Pilote

I became spoiled in my first seasons as a hockey fan. As I have mentioned, my season as a Blackhawk fan was 1959, that year the Hawks lost in the semi’s to Montreal 4-0. The next year we win the Cup against Detroit 4-2. In the 61-62 season we lost the finals to Toronto 4-2. In the next season Detroit got its revenge and beat us in the semi’s, ironically 4-2. In the 1963-64 season we again lost to Detroit this time 4-3. Unfortunately I did not get to see the finals that year.

You can see why I was spoiled, I thought we always went to the semi’s at least if not the finals. There are a lot of reasons for us doing that well in the Original Six. Bobby Hull, Stan Mikita, Bill Hay, and Kenny Wharram , to mention a few were certainly a great part of the reason. However, to me it seemed at that time hockey was like football. Championships were won with defense. Did the Hawks ever have defense starting with Mr.. Goalie Glenn Hall. He was the goalie to use the” butterfly”, and did not stop using all the way to the Hall of Fame. On defense you had Moose Vasko, Eric Nesterenko, Jack Evans, and Reg Fleming moving between left wing and D.

The Captain, Pierre Pilote. One of the best to ever play the game. For the seasons ending in 1963-64-65 Pilote won the Norris Trophy as the top defense man in the NHL.

Not bad for a guy that stood 5’10”(if you cheated on the high side) and weighed 170 pounds. In the mid50’s when he came up he got paired up with Elmer “Moose” Vasko. By the way you did not want to call him Elmer unless you wanted a short life expectancy. Part of the reason they were paired together was because Moose was exactly that. At 6’2” and 210 pounds he was very large player at that time. There is a certain irony here because Pilote became one of the most feared defenseman of his time.

Quote:
When Pilote joined the Blackhawks in 1955, he immediately became the physical presence that would protect offensive stars like Bobby Hull, Stan Mikita and Bill Hay, and provided the foundation for a solid blue line in front of goaltender Glenn Hall.

Quote:

Pilote also became renowned as a tough guy who should be avoided, a reputation enhanced when he knocked both Henri and Maurice Richard out cold during the same mix-up. Pilote played the next 376 games in a row with Chicago, including five seasons without missing a game. His "iron man" streak finally ended when he dislocated a shoulder during the 1961-62 season. Pilote was a superb defenseman at both ends of the ice. In his own zone he blocked shots fearlessly, but he also wasn't afraid to join the rush and he was a first-rate passer. He teamed with Elmer "Moose" Vasko on the blue line, and together they formed the best duo in the league in the late 1950s.

Pierre Pilote started his career with the Hawks in the 1855-56 season. He played in 20 games that year. He would play defense for the Hawks for the next 12 years, before he was traded to Toronto in 1968 for Jim Pappin.

For his career Pilote played in 890 games. Five years in a row he played in every game of the then 70 game season. Out of a possible 998 regular season games he played in all but 98.

Here are his career statistics:

Games 890
Goals 80
Assists 418
Points 498
PIM 1251

I found these numbers to be quite remarkable. A guy who these days would be an undersized forward played in as many games as he did. Had the PIM he did along with knocking out the Ricahard Boys in the same game, especially Henri who was not a push over. And the scoring.

He was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1975.
His number 3 sweater, which was also worn by Keith Magnuson was retired in a ceremony earlier this year.

One of my fondest memories of those early Hawk years was the saying that would follow Pilote all his career.in Chicago. “There is none so fair as our Pierre”

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

Pierre Pilote

I became spoiled in my first seasons as a hockey fan. As I have mentioned, my season as a Blackhawk fan was 1959, that year the Hawks lost in the semi’s to Montreal 4-0. The next year we win the Cup against Detroit 4-2. In the 61-62 season we lost the finals to Toronto 4-2. In the next season Detroit got its revenge and beat us in the semi’s, ironically 4-2. In the 1963-64 season we again lost to Detroit this time 4-3. Unfortunately I did not get to see the finals that year.

You can see why I was spoiled, I thought we always went to the semi’s at least if not the finals. There are a lot of reasons for us doing that well in the Original Six. Bobby Hull, Stan Mikita, Bill Hay, and Kenny Wharram , to mention a few were certainly a great part of the reason. However, to me it seemed at that time hockey was like football. Championships were won with defense. Did the Hawks ever have defense starting with Mr.. Goalie Glenn Hall. He was the goalie to use the” butterfly”, and did not stop using all the way to the Hall of Fame. On defense you had Moose Vasko, Eric Nesterenko, Jack Evans, and Reg Fleming moving between left wing and D.

The Captain, Pierre Pilote. One of the best to ever play the game. For the seasons ending in 1963-64-65 Pilote won the Norris Trophy as the top defense man in the NHL.

Not bad for a guy that stood 5’10”(if you cheated on the high side) and weighed 170 pounds. In the mid50’s when he came up he got paired up with Elmer “Moose” Vasko. By the way you did not want to call him Elmer unless you wanted a short life expectancy. Part of the reason they were paired together was because Moose was exactly that. At 6’2” and 210 pounds he was very large player at that time. There is a certain irony here because Pilote became one of the most feared defenseman of his time.

Quote:
When Pilote joined the Blackhawks in 1955, he immediately became the physical presence that would protect offensive stars like Bobby Hull, Stan Mikita and Bill Hay, and provided the foundation for a solid blue line in front of goaltender Glenn Hall.

Quote:

Pilote also became renowned as a tough guy who should be avoided, a reputation enhanced when he knocked both Henri and Maurice Richard out cold during the same mix-up. Pilote played the next 376 games in a row with Chicago, including five seasons without missing a game. His "iron man" streak finally ended when he dislocated a shoulder during the 1961-62 season. Pilote was a superb defenseman at both ends of the ice. In his own zone he blocked shots fearlessly, but he also wasn't afraid to join the rush and he was a first-rate passer. He teamed with Elmer "Moose" Vasko on the blue line, and together they formed the best duo in the league in the late 1950s.

Pierre Pilote started his career with the Hawks in the 1855-56 season. He played in 20 games that year. He would play defense for the Hawks for the next 12 years, before he was traded to Toronto in 1968 for Jim Pappin.

For his career Pilote played in 890 games. Five years in a row he played in every game of the then 70 game season. Out of a possible 998 regular season games he played in all but 98.

Here are his career statistics:

Games 890
Goals 80
Assists 418
Points 498
PIM 1251

I found these numbers to be quite remarkable. A guy who these days would be an undersized forward played in as many games as he did. Had the PIM he did along with knocking out the Ricahard Boys in the same game, especially Henri who was not a push over. And the scoring.

He was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1975.
His number 3 sweater, which was also worn by Keith Magnuson was retired in a ceremony earlier this year.

One of my fondest memories of those early Hawk years was the saying that would follow Pilote all his career.in Chicago. “There is none so fair as our Pierre”

Here is one guy that I just missed seeing play. I saw a recent highlight feature on Harry Howell from the 1967 season and they showed a game against the Black Hawks and it's the first time that I got to see Pilote and what he looked like etc! Obviously he was the entire package of skills and physical play but could he fight?
Give me a scouting report on him if you get a chance! Him, Whitey Stapleton, Doug Jarrett not bad on the blueline and I guess he was a hell of a passer?
Another guy that I just missed was Kenny Wharram and my old man told me that he could really skate and was a hell of a hockey player!
Any thoughts on Wharram?
The Pilote for Pappin deal was a great one by Tommy Ivan and Billy Reay!

[bigjack]

Maggie I am not the expert that you are with Chicago and just took a few moments to look some things over. Obviously I knew all about Mikita, Hull, Hall, Phil Esposito, Stapleton, Jarrett, Maki, and also read about Pilote, Hay, Wharram to name a few but never studied where the Black Hawks finished through the 1960's with Glenn Hall in net!
We all know they won the Cup in 1961 but they finished 3rd in 1962, 2nd in 1963 and 64 finishing a point out of first, 3rd in 1965, 2nd in 1966, and 1st in 1967. A very impressive record but like the Rangers that I grew up watching no Cups!
Why did they allow Hall to be left unprotected in 1967 to be taken by the Blues. Without knowing the details, you would say that Chicago was nuts! Hall was one of the greats and guys like Dennis DeJordy was average at best to me. Why the hell would they let Hall walk for nothing? Was he threatning to quit like he always did? Wasn't there that gag about him staying home to paint his barn?
Losing Hall and making that crappy deal with Boston really set the team back a few years as they finished last in 1969 and 4th in 1968.
They were very fortunate in 1969 to have gotten Tony Esposito from Montreal for nothing and that fueled the great early 1970's play but again no Cups and plus they lost the great Golden Jet!
Chicago had a hell of a run with Bobby Hull and crew but only won one Cup! It had to have drove you nuts!
Any thoughts?

[fansince65]

Cat Smasher asked for some Eddy Shack stories a few pages back , this one just may jog a few memories ..

It happened back in 1968 . the roof at the Philadelphia Spectrum had collapsed because of the weight of the snow on it so the game between the Flyer's and Bruins was transferred to Maple Leaf Gardens , Shack was playing with the Bruins at the time .

The Flyer's had a tough called Larry Zeidel , in the first he but-ended Shack , at one point they just started swinging their sticks like axes . The gardens just erupted , because Shack had been a Leaf , they stood at centre ice , makeing contact with each-other's head's , The ref and linesman could not or would not get close to them , Shack and Zeidel chased each other around the rink , it was a spectacle , the Gardens was going wild , but all of a sudden the fans realized they were trying to kill each other , the crowd just went silent , you could hear a pin drop , the only sound you could hear was the stick makeing contact with bone , it lasted for a good five minutes , when it was finally stopped Shack needed stitches in four different places on his face and head , one of he most brutal things I ever witnessed .....

[nighthawk]

I turned 46 last month which I guess qualifies for this thread and of course there's no fart like an old fart as a wise man once said.

Anyways I'm sure some of my fellow greybeards will remember the NBC game of the week on Sunday afternoons that was aired once football season was over every year. I recall as a kid really looking forward to it every Sunday especially when the Flyers played (though I hated them) knowing that there would be some sort of fight, brawl or what have you. Also remember getting a knot in my stomach when the intro to the show came on where the music went something like da...dadada...dadadadadadadadada...dadadadada...da da
and as corny as it may sound whenever I played hockey as a kid I used to imagine that music playing in my head to get me pumped up.

On the broadcasting team you had Tim Ryan who was a good hockey announcer (as well as boxing) though became sort of a homer when he joined the Islanders. Of course there was also "Terrible" Ted Lindsey along with Brian MacFarlane. And despite Lindsey never playing in Philadelphia always sensed that he was a Flyers homer and in his own diplomatic way used to favor them. I guess he enjoyed their style of play and never forgot the time he gave Gary Doernhoffer the win in his fight against Ron Harris which was a joke. You also had Peter Puck (which I'm getting on dvd soon) during the intermissions along with "Showdown In The NHL" where two players competed in a shootout.

Also saw a number of fights on the broadcasts and remember being pissed off that I missed the Kelly-Durbano fight. I recall being at my cousin's house that afternoon(who wasn't a hockey fan) and when I came home my father filled me in on it saying that Kelly walloped him.

Some fights that I recall seeing :

Carrierre-Saleski
Vickers-Frig (think it might have been a Saturday afternoon)
Schultz drilling Van Boxemeer
Bouchard-Kelly
Schultz-Robinson
Harris-Doernhoffer
Schultz-Cashman
Schultz-O'Reilly
Wilson-Noak
Schultz-Rolfe
Schultz-Schoenfeld / Kelly-Dudley (I think was an afternoon game)

And some others that I'm sure I'm missing. Also remembering seeng the Rangers-Leafs brawl during the 1971 playoffs where Vic Hadfield threw Bernie Parent's mask in the stands. Though it might have been on CBS (does anyone remember?).

[Maggie3and Me]

nghthawk,

Good post younster

I agree Tim Ryan was one of the truly good hockey announcers. I can't remember when NBC picked up the games from CBS, but it was a good move.

Thanks for, as usual a very good post

[Maggie3and Me]

Pierre Pilote
In reply to your questions bigjack and a little more background.

Pierre Pilote was more the typical policeman/enforcer, than what we would call a fighter today. Could he fight and would he fight, without a doubt. As I mentioned in the article, in one brawl, he knocked out Maurice Richard, who was not a good fighter, and his little brother, Henri, who was a good fighter.

Bigjack, when he got his 1251 PIM, there were no instigator penalties, roughing was part of the game, and misconduct penalties were only handed out if you were sleeping with the refs wife. To get those kind of minutes back in the ay there had to be a lot of fighting PIM. Later, in the mid and late 60’s his role as policeman went to younger and bigger fellows.In addition to the Richard’s, I found he did fight Andre Pronovost and John McKenzie. Jack, I put an item I did come across here.

Qoute:
“Defensemen, in those days, were always bigger than the forwards,” recalls Blackhawks Hall of Famer and former teammate Stan Mikita. “I looked at Pierre and he and I were the same weight and height. I remember thinking to myself, ‘Geez, if I get into a scrap somewhere is this guy going to be able to help me?’ I found out very quickly that he sure as hell could help you. He was not afraid to hit people.”

As far as how good was he, I’ll let these two guys tell you.

Quote:
"Growing up, I was a big Chicago Blackhawks fan so I watched Pierre Pilote and Elmer Vasko, Doug Jarrett and all those guys that played on that team," remembered Larry Robinson, the great Montreal rearguard. "Before Orr, there was Pierre and Doug Harvey. Those were the guys who pioneered defensemen taking the puck and rushing up the ice with it and tried to control the play."

"What Pierre Pilote did for me was show me that a defenseman had to have his head up and the puck in front of him so that he is always ready to move the puck," said New York Islanders standout Denis Potvin. "Starting in my junior career and later in the National Hockey League, that's the way I tried to play:

Not to bust your balls bigjack but this is something I did not know before. Interest in Pilote was strong, with both the Chicago Black Hawks and New York Rangers pursuing the talented youngster. The Hawks won out because of new coach Rudy Pilous.

M3M

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

Pierre Pilote
In reply to your questions bigjack and a little more background.

Pierre Pilote was more the typical policeman/enforcer, than what we would call a fighter today. Could he fight and would he fight, without a doubt. As I mentioned in the article, in one brawl, he knocked out Maurice Richard, who was not a good fighter, and his little brother, Henri, who was a good fighter.

Bigjack, when he got his 1251 PIM, there were no instigator penalties, roughing was part of the game, and misconduct penalties were only handed out if you were sleeping with the refs wife. To get those kind of minutes back in the ay there had to be a lot of fighting PIM. Later, in the mid and late 60’s his role as policeman went to younger and bigger fellows.In addition to the Richard’s, I found he did fight Andre Pronovost and John McKenzie. Jack, I put an item I did come across here.

Qoute:
“Defensemen, in those days, were always bigger than the forwards,” recalls Blackhawks Hall of Famer and former teammate Stan Mikita. “I looked at Pierre and he and I were the same weight and height. I remember thinking to myself, ‘Geez, if I get into a scrap somewhere is this guy going to be able to help me?’ I found out very quickly that he sure as hell could help you. He was not afraid to hit people.”

As far as how good was he, I’ll let these two guys tell you.

Quote:
"Growing up, I was a big Chicago Blackhawks fan so I watched Pierre Pilote and Elmer Vasko, Doug Jarrett and all those guys that played on that team," remembered Larry Robinson, the great Montreal rearguard. "Before Orr, there was Pierre and Doug Harvey. Those were the guys who pioneered defensemen taking the puck and rushing up the ice with it and tried to control the play."

"What Pierre Pilote did for me was show me that a defenseman had to have his head up and the puck in front of him so that he is always ready to move the puck," said New York Islanders standout Denis Potvin. "Starting in my junior career and later in the National Hockey League, that's the way I tried to play:

Not to bust your balls bigjack but this is something I did not know before. Interest in Pilote was strong, with both the Chicago Black Hawks and New York Rangers pursuing the talented youngster. The Hawks won out because of new coach Rudy Pilous.

M3M

Wow knew nothing about Pilote and the Rangers, what are the odds? Why not, they had Gordie Howe in a tryout camp in the mid 1940's and didn't sign him!
Oh the pain!
Great information-thanks!

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by nighthawk

I turned 46 last month which I guess qualifies for this thread and of course there's no fart like an old fart as a wise man once said.

Anyways I'm sure some of my fellow greybeards will remember the NBC game of the week on Sunday afternoons that was aired once football season was over every year. I recall as a kid really looking forward to it every Sunday especially when the Flyers played (though I hated them) knowing that there would be some sort of fight, brawl or what have you. Also remember getting a knot in my stomach when the intro to the show came on where the music went something like da...dadada...dadadadadadadadada...dadadadada...da da
and as corny as it may sound whenever I played hockey as a kid I used to imagine that music playing in my head to get me pumped up.

On the broadcasting team you had Tim Ryan who was a good hockey announcer (as well as boxing) though became sort of a homer when he joined the Islanders. Of course there was also "Terrible" Ted Lindsey along with Brian MacFarlane. And despite Lindsey never playing in Philadelphia always sensed that he was a Flyers homer and in his own diplomatic way used to favor them. I guess he enjoyed their style of play and never forgot the time he gave Gary Doernhoffer the win in his fight against Ron Harris which was a joke. You also had Peter Puck (which I'm getting on dvd soon) during the intermissions along with "Showdown In The NHL" where two players competed in a shootout.

Also saw a number of fights on the broadcasts and remember being pissed off that I missed the Kelly-Durbano fight. I recall being at my cousin's house that afternoon(who wasn't a hockey fan) and when I came home my father filled me in on it saying that Kelly walloped him.

Some fights that I recall seeing :

Carrierre-Saleski
Vickers-Frig (think it might have been a Saturday afternoon)
Schultz drilling Van Boxemeer
Bouchard-Kelly
Schultz-Robinson
Harris-Doernhoffer
Schultz-Cashman
Schultz-O'Reilly
Wilson-Noak
Schultz-Rolfe
Schultz-Schoenfeld / Kelly-Dudley (I think was an afternoon game)

And some others that I'm sure I'm missing. Also remembering seeng the Rangers-Leafs brawl during the 1971 playoffs where Vic Hadfield threw Bernie Parent's mask in the stands. Though it might have been on CBS (does anyone remember?).

Great memory!
We're the same age and that NBC song was awesome. I found it last year on You Tube and loved reliving it. Remember that Giacomin was the last player shown! I remember most of those fights also. I forgot the Dudley one for some reason but the Bert Wilson one was great where he cut Novak wide open in a short but furious bout!
My Dad used to always remark to me about Lindsay's face and scars whenever he was on camera and point out what an SOB he was and great player with Howe and Abel! He was at that Maple Leaf/Ranger playoff game with Hadfield and Parent and called me the next morning as we were living in Massachusetts. I know that CBS had the games then but don't remember if that game was televised!

By the way, Ron Harris won that fight along with the one with Bob Kelly!

[bigjack]

YouTube - 1973 "NFL on NBC"...

Bring back memories!

[nighthawk]

Originally Posted by bigjack

Great memory!
We're the same age and that NBC song was awesome. I found it last year on You Tube and loved reliving it. Remember that Giacomin was the last player shown! I remember most of those fights also. I forgot the Dudley one for some reason but the Bert Wilson one was great where he cut Novak wide open in a short but furious bout!
My Dad used to always remark to me about Lindsay's face and scars whenever he was on camera and point out what an SOB he was and great player with Howe and Abel! He was at that Maple Leaf/Ranger playoff game with Hadfield and Parent and called me the next morning as we were living in Massachusetts. I know that CBS had the games then but don't remember if that game was televised!

By the way, Ron Harris won that fight along with the one with Bob Kelly!

Jack, I'm pretty sure the Ranger-Leaf game was televised and remember watching it over my grandmother's house though it was so long ago and is it possible I just saw a news highlight? I remember my father telling me a few days later that the fan in the crowd who got Parent's mask mailed it back to him. Don't quite recall if he was pulling my leg or not.

Totally agree about the Harris-Doernhoffer fight and don't know what the hell Ted was drinking that day. Was at the game where Harris beat Kelly.