Old Farts Thread

[Johnny Pie]

Lemaire in my opinion was a top center.Almost a point a game in reg season and playoffs. Big goals , great two way center. Hurt my bruins so many times including the cup winner in 77. Those Hab teams were the greatest ever. Does coach that boring trap but that was born out of the 3rd man high and defensive responsibility taught by Bowman with those great Canadien teams.
His record speaks for itself 11 cups as player and coach. Not one of my favorites but you got to give him his due.

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Johnny Pie

Lemaire in my opinion was a top center.Almost a point a game in reg season and playoffs. Big goals , great two way center. Hurt my bruins so many times including the cup winner in 77. Those Hab teams were the greatest ever. Does coach that boring trap but that was born out of the 3rd man high and defensive responsibility taught by Bowman with those great Canadien teams.
His record speaks for itself 11 cups as player and coach. Not one of my favorites but you got to give him his due.

Hell of a hockey player and remember that he retired young or could of been a 500 goal man. I always write about how expansion has ruined the game and how I grew up watching good to very 3rd lines and Lemaire was a 3rd line man who became a first line man later in his career!
Think of:
Jean Beliveau
Pete Mahovlich
Henri Richard
Lemaire
as your center iceman!
Even a team like Toronto that was in 3rd to 5th place in the early 1970's had:
Norm Ullman
Dave Keon
Darryl Sittler
Jim Harrison
later George Ferguson
up the middle!
If Lemaire played as a number 1 or 2 center his entire career, he would of had even better numbers!
Lemaire was a great hockey player!

[Johnny Pie]

It's funny but in yesterdays NY Post they had an article about Lemaire. They talked to Scotty B who talked about everything that we have touched on. One thing I didn't know was Bowman said he coached Lemaire when he was 15 in juniors. He said even then you could see what a smart player he was.
BJ those center ice men were not too shabby. You think the Leafs could use those centers now.

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Johnny Pie

It's funny but in yesterdays NY Post they had an article about Lemaire. They talked to Scotty B who talked about everything that we have touched on. One thing I didn't know was Bowman said he coached Lemaire when he was 15 in juniors. He said even then you could see what a smart player he was.
BJ those center ice men were not too shabby. You think the Leafs could use those centers now.

Ah it was unreal the talent spread around especially before the WHA!
Look at Boston with Espo, Stanfield, Sanderson, Walton, and even Westfall played center once in a while! Boston was so good that guys like Boldirev couldn't get a sniff or the Rangers had guys like Widing and Apps that they traded away because Francis felt that Ratelle, Tkaczuk, and Stemkowski were better and Bobby Rousseau was such a good player that he played center in the 1972 playoffs because Ratelle was out injured and scored 17 points in 16 games.
Montreal also had before Pete Mahovlich, Ralph Backstrom for years at center.
Detroit also stunk once Ned Harkness came to town but had centers like: Delvecchio, Unger and later Berenson, Stemkowski before he was dealt, Luce before he was dealt, Dionne, and Karlander at center!
We could go on and on about 3 solid lines that we all grew up watching and now crap for the most part.
Look at the Flyers when they were winning Cups with guys like Kindrachuk, Lonsberry, Saleski or Dornhoeffer playing the 3rd line! A great 3rd line!
Today-crap for the most part.
It was why the other night when the Rangers beat the Leafs and I wrote in the Rangers thread about finally seeing a 3rd line with Anisimov the kid centering Avery and what a great game they had and Avery's first goal came on a beautiful backhand! Wow what was this-1976?
Maybe there is hope!

[fansince65]

We all know Wayne Gretzky was the greatest passer/play-maker of all time with 11 seasons with over 100 assists and that one remarkable season 0f 163 assists in 1985-86 , that is a record that will stand forever .
Who do you guys think was the number two guy ??
My choice is Adam Oates ..
Brett Hull/Cam Neely/Peter Bondra all had their best seasons with him as their center , Hull was never the same after Oats left St.Louis , he scored 70 goals three years in a row but never got more then 57 after Oates left .
Two players Hull/Neely hit 50 goals in 50 games with him as their center , even Gretzky didn't do that .
Their are some real play-makers out their , that is their game , guys like Joe Thornton come to mind , who do you think make the top 5 of all time ...

[Killah_punk]

Originally Posted by fansince65

We all know Wayne Gretzky was the greatest passer/play-maker of all time with 11 seasons with over 100 assists and that one remarkable season 0f 163 assists in 1985-86 , that is a record that will stand forever .
Who do you guys think was the number two guy ??
My choice is Adam Oates ..
Brett Hull/Cam Neely/Peter Bondra all had their best seasons with him as their center , Hull was never the same after Oats left St.Louis , he scored 70 goals three years in a row but never got more then 57 after Oates left .
Two players Hull/Neely hit 50 goals in 50 games with him as their center , even Gretzky didn't do that .
Their are some real play-makers out their , that is their game , guys like Joe Thornton come to mind , who do you think make the top 5 of all time ...

How about Ron Francis he was second all-time in assists, and had 16 seasons of it least 50 assists.

[Maggie3and Me]

As far as points go, Francis, is number 2 all-time with 1249 assists and Messier is number 3 with 1193.

Stan Mikita, who is number 10, with 926 assist, merits more consideration than just his assists alone. I was fortunate to see him start his career. He played three games in the 1958-59 season, which I did not see. His career took off in the 1959-69 season, when he played in 67 games.

Until the 1967-68 season, you had the Original Six, which was not the wide open game we have come to know. By then, Mikita had been in the league for 8 years. When the emphasis was placed on offensive hockey to put fannies in the seats, Mikita was retired. His last season was 1979-80.

At 5’ 09” and 165 pounds, the European style that took over the league as Mikita was phasing his career of 21 seasons, would have fit his game well. He was a tremendous play maker. His set up ability was unparalleled for his time.

In fact, to give you a comparison of his ability, of his contemporaries, Phil Esposito had 873 assists, playing from 1963 through the 1980-81 season. Alex Delvecchio, who played from 1950 to 1974 had 824 assists.

As among the best of all time, I would feel they would rank higher than just the numbers their assist totals show. The style of game does need to be considered.

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by fansince65

We all know Wayne Gretzky was the greatest passer/play-maker of all time with 11 seasons with over 100 assists and that one remarkable season 0f 163 assists in 1985-86 , that is a record that will stand forever .
Who do you guys think was the number two guy ??
My choice is Adam Oates ..
Brett Hull/Cam Neely/Peter Bondra all had their best seasons with him as their center , Hull was never the same after Oats left St.Louis , he scored 70 goals three years in a row but never got more then 57 after Oates left .
Two players Hull/Neely hit 50 goals in 50 games with him as their center , even Gretzky didn't do that .
Their are some real play-makers out their , that is their game , guys like Joe Thornton come to mind , who do you think make the top 5 of all time ...

Yeah Oates was a great passer, Bobby Clarke was another guy who could score his 30 goals but was a great passer and had years with almost 90 assists.
Dionne was like Espo in that he was a great goal scoring center but also had his 65 to 75 assists every year and had as many as 84 assists in a season and Bryan Trottier. Of course Mario was a goal scoring machine but also found time to also be an assist machine! Super Mario!
Federko and Yzerman were also great assist men! I tell ya a pure playmaker even though he was not these guys was a Dennis Hextall. I remember him being like a 20 goal man with 55-60 assists in Minnesota or Syl Apps and Fred Stanfield in Boston!
Thornton is that way today with his 4-1 assists to goals.

[Maggie3and Me]

Originally Posted by bigjack

Yeah Oates was a great passer, Bobby Clarke was another guy who could score his 30 goals but was a great passer and had years with almost 90 assists.
Dionne was like Espo in that he was a great goal scoring center but also had his 65 to 75 assists every year and had as many as 84 assists in a season and Bryan Trottier. Of course Mario was a goal scoring machine but also found time to also be an assist machine! Super Mario!
Federko and Yzerman were also great assist men! I tell ya a pure playmaker even though he was not these guys was a Dennis Hextall. I remember him being like a 20 goal man with 55-60 assists in Minnesota or Syl Apps and Fred Stanfield in Boston!
Thornton is that way today with his 4-1 assists to goals.

Agree they were all good set-up men and good players.

Oates had 1079 assists
Yzerman 1063
Lemiuex 1033
Trottier 901
Clarke 852
Bernie 761

I had just looked up the assist numbers to do a post and had this handy.

BJ, Dennis Hextall was a LW wasn't he?

[Killah_punk]

Good call on Mario BJ, he had 5 seasons with it least 90 assists, and 114 in his monster season. Add Bobby Orr to that list too, the other player besides Wayne and Mario to get 100 or more assists in a season, and the only defenseman to accomplish the feat.

[Flyer_Frank]

Originally Posted by Maggie3and Me

BJ, Dennis Hextall was a LW wasn't he?

Dennis Hextall played center. At his peak he centered a terrific line with Danny Grant and Bill Goldsworthy on the wings in Minnesota. Very good hockey player . . . and dirty as hell with the stick.

[Maggie3and Me]

Originally Posted by Killah_punk

Good call on Mario BJ, he had 5 seasons with it least 90 assists, and 114 in his monster season. Add Bobby Orr to that list too, the other player besides Wayne and Mario to get 100 or more assists in a season, and the only defenseman to accomplish the feat.

Killah,

I'll never forget a quote I read by Harry Howell, the defenseman of the New York Rangers. He won Norris Trrophy in 1967 and said, "I am glad I won the Norris Trophy this year, because in 10 years it will be the Bobby Orr Trophy."

BJ, did you get to see Howell play? I don't think he retired until 1973.

[Maggie3and Me]

Originally Posted by Flyer_Frank

Dennis Hextall played center. At his peak he centered a terrific line with Danny Grant and Bill Goldsworthy on the wings in Minnesota. Very good hockey player . . . and dirty as hell with the stick.

I thought Bryan Hextall was a center. I checked two other sources and they have Dennis listed as Left Wing on the 1973-74 North Stars.

I could be wrong, but that's what I remember.

[NJDevils17]

Originally Posted by Killah_punk

Good call on Mario BJ, he had 5 seasons with it least 90 assists, and 114 in his monster season. Add Bobby Orr to that list too, the other player besides Wayne and Mario to get 100 or more assists in a season, and the only defenseman to accomplish the feat.

I never knew that so few players have had 100 assists. I'm a bit surprised someone like Adam Oates didn't have 100 assists playing with guys like Cam Neeley and Ray Bourque.

I can see Joe Thornton getting to that 100 assists plateau especially playing with Dany Heatley. I believe that Thornton had 96 assists in 2005-06 so him getting 100 is realistic.

[Killah_punk]

Originally Posted by NJDevils17

I never knew that so few players have had 100 assists. I'm a bit surprised someone like Adam Oates didn't have 100 assists playing with guys like Cam Neeley and Ray Bourque.

I can see Joe Thornton getting to that 100 assists plateau especially playing with Dany Heatley. I believe that Thornton had 96 assists in 2005-06 so him getting 100 is realistic.

The task has been accomplished 13 times in NHL history. 11 of those 13 seasons were contributed by Wayne Gretzky. Mario Lemieux and Bobby Orr each did it once. Oates came close in 92-93 when he had 97, also got 90 during the 90-91 season. Other players to come close to the 100 Assist milestone were, Steve Yzerman, Paul Coffey, Ron Francis, Peter Stastny, Doug Gilmour, Pat LaFontaine and Joe Thornton.