Old Farts Thread

[fansince65]

Originally Posted by bigjack

I think Eddie Shack did and Fotiu did. Fotiu was always number 2 in line behind the Ranger goalie. He'd come zooming out and then at the end would stay on by himself and toss maybe 15-20 pucks to fans. He had a great arm and could hit the blue seats with his tosses.
The Rangers 3 stars give out a puck after the game now at MSG and have been doing it since the lockout but Fotiu was doing that and more over 30 years ago after the warmup and always came out for the warmup or each period the same way.
Number 2 in line and about 100 mph!

That BJ is kind of funny , LOL , Fotiu at 100 mph ? the best he could do was probably 15 mph and he had to work to do that .
I do remember him throwing a whole bucket of pucks after the warm-up to the fans , used to hold up the cleanup of the ice until he was done , Bobby Hull used to do the same thing with his never leaving until the last autograph was signed ..

[Beaton]

Originally Posted by hockeybooks

tried to use DYG's archives for a park-pie fight date , but it wouldn't load, server problems

i worry that site won't be around much longer

I found a old Bruin fight tape a while back and out of the blue the fight between Park and Pie came on. I almost s..t myself..There it was..Our seats were pretty close to the ice so of course I scanned the stands for my Dad and me but the tape was to grainy..Maybe it was for the better...Probably would ball like a baby...

[hockeybooks]

Originally Posted by Beaton

I found a old Bruin fight tape a while back and out of the blue the fight between Park and Pie came on. I almost s..t myself..There it was..Our seats were pretty close to the ice so of course I scanned the stands for my Dad and me but the tape was to grainy..Maybe it was for the better...Probably would ball like a baby...

DYG lists it as 1972-01-02

Pie-Park scrap - click here

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by fansince65

That BJ is kind of funny , LOL , Fotiu at 100 mph ? the best he could do was probably 15 mph and he had to work to do that .
I do remember him throwing a whole bucket of pucks after the warm-up to the fans , used to hold up the cleanup of the ice until he was done , Bobby Hull used to do the same thing with his never leaving until the last autograph was signed ..

Yeah I used a little hyperbole. Didn't Eddie Shack always come out zooming also. I seem to remember him doing that and flying around like some lunatic.
Great to read that about Bobby Hull.

[fansince65]

Originally Posted by bigjack

Yeah I used a little hyperbole. Didn't Eddie Shack always come out zooming also. I seem to remember him doing that and flying around like some lunatic.
Great to read that about Bobby Hull.

BJ Bobby Hull is legendary for that , he held up team trains/plains buses/ or any thing that was used to transport the team if their was 200 fans seeking autographs he would sign every one before boarding , now Stan Mikita was the opposite , he never would sign even one autograph before or after a game ...

[Maggie3and Me]

Originally Posted by fish7

M3M the one thing about Magnuson that I have not seen posted was the way he would hit the ice and skate full speed at the beginning of the game and each period. I have not seen any one else hit the ice for warmups with as much intensity.

fish7,

Thanks.

Somewhere, I have made the comment about the way Maggie would always be the first on the ice.

During the 70's, I was fortunate enough to have seasons tickets to the Hawks. We were under the broadcast booth, a little left of the goal. To our right was the press area and the organ. At ice level, the benches were to our left. This gave us a clear view of the teams as they came on the ice.

You would see a mop of unruly red hair and the man underneath it come tearing on the ice, leading the team. I was always struck by this sight, as Maggie looked like a choir boy and fought like hell.

I can't remember if it was the 73' or 74' season, but this happened in a game against the Flyers. The hated Philadelphia team was on the ice, in the pre-game skate. Dave Shultz and a few of the Flyers were coming over the red line at center ice. The crowd was booing.

Maggie came out of the chute and tearing on the ice, as he usually did. This time he comes straight up ice heading straight for Schultz and the fight was on. He and Schultz started, then everyone was involved. What a melee. What fun for the fans. Here the game had not even started and there were fights all over the ice. No one could get penalized, the game had not started. Eventually, things quited down, but what fun while it lasted.

Every time I think of Maggie and his hitting the ice, I can't help but think of that.

[hockeybooks]

from this book:



and a post-victory handshake with the boss



the above pic was from the book on the right, the book on the left has a Gardiner pic i wanted to use but it turned out ****ty



fack, i gotta learn to use a scanner

[BENNETTWOLF]

Watching last night's Caps-devils game, it was mentioned that Jacques Lemaire has an incredible 11 stanley cup rings (8 as a player). I figured i'd take advantage of the wealth of knowledge here and ask what kind of player was he?

What style of play? How good? Role etc?

[fish7]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

Watching last night's Caps-devils game, it was mentioned that Jacques Lemaire has an incredible 11 stanley cup rings (8 as a player). I figured i'd take advantage of the wealth of knowledge here and ask what kind of player was he?

What style of play? How good? Role etc?

It has always amazed me that he is such a defensive coach because I remembered him as an offensive player. He scored at least 20 goals every year and he was almost a point a game player

[Maggie3and Me]

Hb,

Thanks for the pics of the uniforms. Here is a little history on the sweaters. The original design for the sweaters came from the original owners wife and with little change stayed until General Manager Tommy Ivans' wife in 1955. She removed the stripes and circle from around the logo. The Indian Head became more pronounced. This changed with more refinement until 1964-65 and has remained pretty much the same since then. This I knew from reading about the history of the team.

I ran across this and thought I would post it.

The Blackhawks Sweater

I tried to copy photos of the sweaters, but am not that good at that stuff. Will post as I come across them.

The Blackhawks' Indian head sweater has been called the best uniform in professional sports. The original was designed by Irene Castle, a famous dancer of the 1920's, who was also the wife of Major McLaughlin, the founder of the Blackhawks. The first sweaters were black and white with horizontal stripes running across the shoulders, elbows and waist

During the mid-1930's, the sweater design changed to the one you see below. They had horizontal stripes on the bottom like they do today, but they also had them on the upper chest and shoulders. The Indian head was inside a circle on the chest with the words "Chicago Black Hawks" around it.

After the 1954-55 season, the upper chest stripes were removed and the shoulder patches with the crossed tomahawks were added. The Indian head was also made larger and the words were removed from around it. This design was done by the wife of long-time Hawks executive Tommy Ivan.

In 1970, all teams in the NHL switched from wearing their white sweaters on the road to wearing them at home.

In 1996, the Blackhawks, like many other NHL teams, added a third sweater. The new sweater is the same design as the home and road sweaters with the exception of the colors. The main color of it is black, with alternating red and white stripes around the bottom and on the arms.

[NJDevils17]

I definitely agree that the Chicago Blackhawks' sweater is the greatest uniform in all of sports. It's a pretty simple design with a nice color selection and terrific logo. I'm really happy that the Blackhawks really haven't changed their at all. It's too bad the same can not be said with other teams in the league.

[hockeybooks]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

Watching last night's Caps-devils game, it was mentioned that Jacques Lemaire has an incredible 11 stanley cup rings (8 as a player). I figured i'd take advantage of the wealth of knowledge here and ask what kind of player was he?

What style of play? How good? Role etc?

lemaire played for the Habs from the late 60', thru to that 4 Cups in a row squad always included in any debates about the

GREATEST TEAMS OF ALL - TIME !!!!

he played every single role you can think of

he was a 90 point plus player 3 times

as well as the set-up man for Lafluer's and Shutt's greatest goal-scoring seasons

he was a solid 2-way 20+ goals p/k and face-off specialist

he was the habs main shut-down center , before jarvis and gainey took over those roles

as much as i hate his coaching style , and how effective it's been against the canucks

i beleive he's HHOF material as a player

Jacques Lemaire Height 5'11'' (180 cm)


Born Sep 7, 1945 LaSalle, QUE, Canada Weight 180 (82 kg)


Season League Team Regular Season Playoffs
GP G A P +/- PIMs GP G A Points

1964-1965 AHL Quebec Aces 1 0 0 0 0 0
1966-1967 CHL Houston Apollos 69 19 30 49 19 6 0 1 1 0 0
1967-1968 NHL Montreal Canadiens 69 22 20 42 16 13 7 6 13 6 0
1968-1969 NHL Montreal Canadiens 75 29 34 63 29 14 4 2 6 6 0
1969-1970 NHL Montreal Canadiens 69 32 28 60 16 { habs missed play-offs }
1970-1971 NHL Montreal Canadiens 78 28 28 56 18 20 9 10 19 17 2
1971-1972 NHL Montreal Canadiens 77 32 49 81 26 6 2 1 3 2 1
1972-1973 NHL Montreal Canadiens 77 44 51 95 16 17 7 13 20 2 0
1973-1974 NHL Montreal Canadiens 66 29 38 67 10 6 0 4 4 2 0
1974-1975 NHL Montreal Canadiens 80 36 56 92 20 11 5 7 12 4 0
1975-1976 NHL Montreal Canadiens 61 20 32 52 20 13 3 3 6 2 0
1976-1977 NHL Montreal Canadiens 75 34 41 75 22 14 7 12 19 6 0
1977-1978 NHL Montreal Canadiens 76 36 61 97 14 15 6 8 14 10 0
1978-1979 NHL Montreal Canadiens 50 24 31 55 10 16 11 12 23 6 0
NHL Totals 853 366 469 835 217 145 61 78

[fansince65]

Lemaire learned his coaching style playing under Scotty Bowman for 8 years 1971/79 , in that time he would win "5" Stanley Cups and play in only one season that the team was under 100 points (99 in 73) .
He is not a players coach , by that , none of his players ever liked him because of his coaching style , another trait picked up from Bowman , you either play his game or you sit on the bench .
A lot of fans don't know it was the Habs coaching staff that invented the "TRAP" style of play . In 1940 Dick Irvine was the coach , the team was so short of players because of the war (every team was) he devised a defense first system of play , the trap was born , Scotty Bowman learned the system from Hector(TOE) Blake who had learned the system from Irvin and passed it on to every player that ever played for him .
Lemaire is one of the players that choose to use what he learned as a player from the Legend Scotty Bowman , how can you go wrong by emulating the winning-est coach of all time ...

I Just noticed this is my "4000" post , could not be happier then to have done it in the "OLD FARTS THREAD " ...

[bzane]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

Watching last night's Caps-devils game, it was mentioned that Jacques Lemaire has an incredible 11 stanley cup rings (8 as a player). I figured i'd take advantage of the wealth of knowledge here and ask what kind of player was he?

What style of play? How good? Role etc?

Well, Bennett, I can tell you a couple of things about Jacques Lemaire, having been a spoiled Canadiens' fan during the Golden Age of the 'seventies, and with the usual disclaimer that time and sentiment may have distorted memory.

Lemaire went through two or three interesting incarnations in his playing career- an evolution from classic offensive center to two-way forward to defensive specialist; it was this growth, and the realized value in checking that Lemaire learned, that led to his notorious defense-first coaching style, an agony of tedium for hockey fans, but one which has undeniably been successful for him, and his teams.

Jacques Lemaire was one of several good players in Montreal's farm system in the late 'sixties, a scoring center for the Houston Apollos (briefly their top minor-league team, prior to becoming the more geographically-logical Montreal, then Nova Scotia Voyageurs; why they placed their farm team in Houston, when they could have had a club in Buenos Aires, a mere continent away and handy for instantaneous call-ups, remains a mystery), awaiting his chance while the creaking but still Cup-winning Canadiens of the Beliveau-Richard-Backstrom era enjoyed continued success. During, I believe, the 1967-68 season, there came an ominous down-time when the revered "Pocket Rocket", Henri Richard, started to show signs of age and stopped scoring; the team lost a few games, and there was the usual end-of-the-world clamor in Montreal; Lemaire was called up from Houston to provide a spark- which is exactly what he did, delivering from the first needed offense and relegating for a time the pouting Richard to a lesser role.

Lemaire was an anomaly as a center- he was pretty good at everything, but a far better shooter than he was a playmaker. He was one of those rare players who had both a great slap-shot AND a great wrist shot. Indeed, it might be argued that he was second only to Bobby Hull in shooting abilities in that time. While he is perhaps best remembered for scoring shockingly on a sixty-foot slap-shot on Tony Esposito in the 1971 playoffs (as best I recall; perhaps the Founder of this thread/sub-Forum, with his massive knowledge of Blackhawks hockey, can help me out here), I would suggest that his zinging wrist shot, delivered with an economy of motion, sudden release, fastball velocity and on-the-net accuracy, was even more effective. Either way, Lemaire had two very powerful weapons at his disposal.

Had he been larger- he was listed early-on as 5'10 and 170; later, with growth or the enthusiasm of publicists he was purported to be an inch taller and ten pounds heavier; having met him once as a college coach I would tend to believe in the initial vital statistics- he might have been an all-time great; had he been a better skater- he was good, but not of the LaFleur-Perreault-Dionne caliber- he might have been great; with the tools he had he was a very good complementary player on eight Stanley Cup winning teams, surely success enough for any NHL player.

After his immediate success Lemaire settled down for a few years to a level of useful, but not All-Star, play; he remained a good second-line center, capable of scoring goals in the twenties every year, but teams were more wary of his shot now; that, and the limitations of his size and skating, prevented him from taking his game to the proverbial next level.

It was perhaps an unfortunate legacy of the hallowed Beliveau that for a time no subsequent Montreal center was deemed good enough to carry on The Torch (be yours to hold it high!) thrown from the failing hands of Beliveau and Richard; indeed, the gag was about the Canadiens of the early 'seventies that they had "Doughnut Lines" (doughnut--- hole in the center----get it? Haw Haw!). The charge was that they had wingers- Lemaire, Peter Mahovlich- miscast as centers- an unfair criticism I think; Lemaire and Mahovlich were genuine, if limited, centers; it was like trying to follow Bobby Orr as a defenseman in Boston. The knock on Lemaire was that he shot more than he passed; Mahovlich would be excoriated for his flamboyant one-man-effort ("Peter Puck-Hog") rushes.

Suddenly, in 1972-73, Lemaire took his game up a notch- a couple of notches- and scored a shocking 44 goals (I think he had 53 assists, for a total of 97 points). Inspired by the quantum-leap scoring records set by Phil Esposito, achieved mostly by flicking innumerable wrist shots on net from a position right in front of the goal, Lemaire tweaked his game a bit from being a perimeter player with a mighty slap-shot to operating in close, in the manner of Esposito, and relying on his fine wrist shot. It was something of a Rennaissance for Lemaire and elevated him to Number-One Line status. Montreal would win the Cup that year, with one of their better teams.

Lemaire stuck with his new style of play- at least in the offensive end- for the rest of his career; he would never again score as many goals as he did in that watershed season, being far less armored than the hulking Esposito to endure the muggings and cross-checks of angry defensemen trying to discourage him (in fact, it was Lemaire's fear that he might lose an eye to the goon style of play employed by the Wensink-Jonathan-O'Reilly-Cashman Bruins of the late 'seventies, particularly in the play-offs, that prompted his premature retirement). Nevertheless, he remained a dangerous red-zone scorer.

It was in the middle of the decade of the 1970's that Lemaire entered into the next phase of his career. With the ascendancy of Guy LaFleur and Steve Shutt, his new linemates, as brilliant goal scorers, Lemaire withdrew into a more of a support player to the younger stars. Oddly, he still was not a conventional playmaking center- he continued to lack Beliveau skills in this way- but with the wondrous and one-of-a-kind LaFleur on his right wing, creating the rink-length rushes one would normally expect from the center on a classic hockey line, it became Lemaire's role to cover defensively for his high-risk high-reward wingers, ceding the glory to his linemates in return for victories. It is a tribute to Lemaire that he was able to subordinate his ego to this extent- to step back from having been his team's top scorer, realizing that greater success would come from his allowing his new wings free rein for their offensive talent.

On the other hand, I would suggest that in Lemaire's discovery of the value of backchecking at this time germinated the seed of his later clutch-and-grab, safety-first, last, and foremost coaching style, alternately known as The Trap, The Left-Wing Lock, The Snooze-Fest, and That @#%&* Thing by hockey fans sorrowing over the disappearance of the freewheeling scoring of the 'eighties. Adolf Hitler, conceiving Mein Kampf in his prison cell, scarcely developed a more history-altering idea.

Might Lemaire have become a great scorer himself, with that world-class shot, had he not deferred to LaFleur and Shutt? It might so be argued, but I tend to think that there existed in measure equal to his apparent team-oriented sacrifice a preference on Lemaire's part to get away from the goal-mouth scrums and potential cross-check decapitation, in favor of the safer environs of hanging back and covering for his impetuous wingers. Certainly it was an effective style, whatever his motivations.

Might The Trap, the Left Wing Lock, the Et Cetera Et Cetera, never have come into existence, had Jacques Lemaire not experienced the Epiphany of Defensive Hockey? Would we still have Canadian-style hockey, if the Soviet Union had never fallen?? WHO KNOWS????

But I will leave these airy speculations to hockey minds greater than mine, Bennett- to Maggie and Jack and Ewen and Nighthawk; 2-5 and Badda and Juha; Stanley and Brad and Srehm; and to yourself- and hope this helped.

[brad houghton]

Originally Posted by bzane

Well, Bennett, I can tell you a couple of things about Jacques Lemaire, having been a spoiled Canadiens' fan during the Golden Age of the 'seventies, and with the usual disclaimer that time and sentiment may have distorted memory.

Lemaire went through two or three interesting incarnations in his playing career- an evolution from classic offensive center to two-way forward to defensive specialist; it was this growth, and the realized value in checking that Lemaire learned, that led to his notorious defense-first coaching style, an agony of tedium for hockey fans, but one which has undeniably been successful for him, and his teams.

Jacques Lemaire was one of several good players in Montreal's farm system in the late 'sixties, a scoring center for the Houston Apollos (briefly their top minor-league team, prior to becoming the more geographically-logical Montreal, then Nova Scotia Voyageurs; why they placed their farm team in Houston, when they could have had a club in Buenos Aires, a mere continent away and handy for instantaneous call-ups, remains a mystery), awaiting his chance while the creaking but still Cup-winning Canadiens of the Beliveau-Richard-Backstrom era enjoyed continued success. During, I believe, the 1967-68 season, there came an ominous down-time when the revered "Pocket Rocket", Henri Richard, started to show signs of age and stopped scoring; the team lost a few games, and there was the usual end-of-the-world clamor in Montreal; Lemaire was called up from Houston to provide a spark- which is exactly what he did, delivering from the first needed offense and relegating for a time the pouting Richard to a lesser role.

Lemaire was an anomaly as a center- he was pretty good at everything, but a far better shooter than he was a playmaker. He was one of those rare players who had both a great slap-shot AND a great wrist shot. Indeed, it might be argued that he was second only to Bobby Hull in shooting abilities in that time. While he is perhaps best remembered for scoring shockingly on a sixty-foot slap-shot on Tony Esposito in the 1971 playoffs (as best I recall; perhaps the Founder of this thread/sub-Forum, with his massive knowledge of Blackhawks hockey, can help me out here), I would suggest that his zinging wrist shot, delivered with an economy of motion, sudden release, fastball velocity and on-the-net accuracy, was even more effective. Either way, Lemaire had two very powerful weapons at his disposal.

Had he been larger- he was listed early-on as 5'10 and 170; later, with growth or the enthusiasm of publicists he was purported to be an inch taller and ten pounds heavier; having met him once as a college coach I would tend to believe in the initial vital statistics- he might have been an all-time great; had he been a better skater- he was good, but not of the LaFleur-Perreault-Dionne caliber- he might have been great; with the tools he had he was a very good complementary player on eight Stanley Cup winning teams, surely success enough for any NHL player.

After his immediate success Lemaire settled down for a few years to a level of useful, but not All-Star, play; he remained a good second-line center, capable of scoring goals in the twenties every year, but teams were more wary of his shot now; that, and the limitations of his size and skating, prevented him from taking his game to the proverbial next level.

It was perhaps an unfortunate legacy of the hallowed Beliveau that for a time no subsequent Montreal center was deemed good enough to carry on The Torch (be yours to hold it high!) thrown from the failing hands of Beliveau and Richard; indeed, the gag was about the Canadiens of the early 'seventies that they had "Doughnut Lines" (doughnut--- hole in the center----get it? Haw Haw!). The charge was that they had wingers- Lemaire, Peter Mahovlich- miscast as centers- an unfair criticism I think; Lemaire and Mahovlich were genuine, if limited, centers; it was like trying to follow Bobby Orr as a defenseman in Boston. The knock on Lemaire was that he shot more than he passed; Mahovlich would be excoriated for his flamboyant one-man-effort ("Peter Puck-Hog") rushes.

Suddenly, in 1972-73, Lemaire took his game up a notch- a couple of notches- and scored a shocking 44 goals (I think he had 53 assists, for a total of 97 points). Inspired by the quantum-leap scoring records set by Phil Esposito, achieved mostly by flicking innumerable wrist shots on net from a position right in front of the goal, Lemaire tweaked his game a bit from being a perimeter player with a mighty slap-shot to operating in close, in the manner of Esposito, and relying on his fine wrist shot. It was something of a Rennaissance for Lemaire and elevated him to Number-One Line status. Montreal would win the Cup that year, with one of their better teams.

Lemaire stuck with his new style of play- at least in the offensive end- for the rest of his career; he would never again score as many goals as he did in that watershed season, being far less armored than the hulking Esposito to endure the muggings and cross-checks of angry defensemen trying to discourage him (in fact, it was Lemaire's fear that he might lose an eye to the goon style of play employed by the Wensink-Jonathan-O'Reilly-Cashman Bruins of the late 'seventies, particularly in the play-offs, that prompted his premature retirement). Nevertheless, he remained a dangerous red-zone scorer.

It was in the middle of the decade of the 1970's that Lemaire entered into the next phase of his career. With the ascendancy of Guy LaFleur and Steve Shutt, his new linemates, as brilliant goal scorers, Lemaire withdrew into a more of a support player to the younger stars. Oddly, he still was not a conventional playmaking center- he continued to lack Beliveau skills in this way- but with the wondrous and one-of-a-kind LaFleur on his right wing, creating the rink-length rushes one would normally expect from the center on a classic hockey line, it became Lemaire's role to cover defensively for his high-risk high-reward wingers, ceding the glory to his linemates in return for victories. It is a tribute to Lemaire that he was able to subordinate his ego to this extent- to step back from having been his team's top scorer, realizing that greater success would come from his allowing his new wings free rein for their offensive talent.

On the other hand, I would suggest that in Lemaire's discovery of the value of backchecking at this time germinated the seed of his later clutch-and-grab, safety-first, last, and foremost coaching style, alternately known as The Trap, The Left-Wing Lock, The Snooze-Fest, and That @#%&* Thing by hockey fans sorrowing over the disappearance of the freewheeling scoring of the 'eighties. Adolf Hitler, conceiving Mein Kampf in his prison cell, scarcely developed a more history-altering idea.

Might Lemaire have become a great scorer himself, with that world-class shot, had he not deferred to LaFleur and Shutt? It might so be argued, but I tend to think that there existed in measure equal to his apparent team-oriented sacrifice a preference on Lemaire's part to get away from the goal-mouth scrums and potential cross-check decapitation, in favor of the safer environs of hanging back and covering for his impetuous wingers. Certainly it was an effective style, whatever his motivations.

Might The Trap, the Left Wing Lock, the Et Cetera Et Cetera, never have come into existence, had Jacques Lemaire not experienced the Epiphany of Defensive Hockey? Would we still have Canadian-style hockey, if the Soviet Union had never fallen?? WHO KNOWS????

But I will leave these airy speculations to hockey minds greater than mine, Bennett- to Maggie and Jack and Ewen and Nighthawk; 2-5 and Badda and Juha; Stanley and Brad and Srehm; and to yourself- and hope this helped.

my god Bzane that is a world class post!!!! i love your uniqure humor and laughed out loud today at this quote:

" when they could have had a club in Buenos Aires, a mere continent away and handy for instantaneous call-ups, remains a mystery),"

the thought of Lemarie in front of a bunch of confused flag waving Argentines signing Ole Ole Ole Ole........Ole.......Ole.....actually had me spitting my coffee on my desk this morning

of all your great posts this might be my favorite....humor and substance and i learned allot about Lemaire.....maybe one of the best paragraph's ever written on hockeyfights.com is:

On the other hand, I would suggest that in Lemaire's discovery of the value of backchecking at this time germinated the seed of his later clutch-and-grab, safety-first, last, and foremost coaching style, alternately known as The Trap, The Left-Wing Lock, The Snooze-Fest, and That @#%&* Thing by hockey fans sorrowing over the disappearance of the freewheeling scoring of the 'eighties. Adolf Hitler, conceiving Mein Kampf in his prison cell, scarcely developed a more history-altering idea.

not only is it hilarious but it has a grain of truth


on to my take of Lemaire.......unlike my good friend Bzane i have mostly nightmares about the habs from my early youth.....i grew up as a card carrying hab hater and it started a life time obsesssion of finding a team to cheer for that had absolutely no chance of winning!! (yes i am a cubs fan....and as the great George Will said when discussing there 100 year streak without a championship "anyone can have and off century"...... the habs would always find a way to break your heart and it was like a hazzing ritual waiting around to figure out the next way they were going to beat you. even if you were winning you new the habs would come back

i happened to be watching on TV when Lemaire got the goal from centre ice in game 7 against the Hawks.....that was a less talented Habs team in transition and the Hawks had them on the ropes and then a goal from centre on the great Tony O who was having a lights out year.....cue the usual comeback music as Brad broke into tears...as i recall in that game Pete Mahovlich had a fight that he open hand slapped instead of punching a Hawk during the fight it might have been Cliff Korall....my dads buddy was all over it...wow Pete hit him with your purse

you nailed it Bzane in describing le petite centre......he was really efficient and always had no expression on his face....very respossible and sneaky good....and yea there is only one Jean Believeu and i am old enough to remember his greatness (the pain)....but i will say in his own understated way Lemaire did pick up the torch and carry it....facinating theory about him playing more D perhaps out of a bit of self preservation.....maybe Bowman also led him that way....Scotty didn't like to leak.....its hard to imagine with Robinson, Savard, and Lapoint patrolling they would have needed a third man back but come to think of it those boys didn't mind jumping the rush once in a while and having a responsible centre to drop back might have opened options on the attack

Lemaire for me will always represent my tortured youth as a hab hater.......but heres the rub..... i loved to hate the habs and i so miss the passion of living to watch someone....anyone.... beat them and always coming up short.....when they did finally lose in the playoffs it was always shocking and a cause for celebration

i remember the year the North Stars knocked them out.....in the very late 70's or 1980ish......i just couldn't believe it.....i kept waiting for a newscast saying they were going to play the last game over because the habs just don't lose to a team like the Northstars in the playoffs and we know the hab haters might die of shock!!

great question BW and Bzane you brought back memories for me.....tortured as they were..... i do miss the passion!!