Official hockeyfights.com All-Time Top 10

[Flyers_22]

Originally Posted by mrpink51089

Bleeders aren't necessarily bad fighters. The reason he is a bleeder is because he can take a punch and come back for more. Ryan Vandenbussche is one of the gamest fighters ever and also a bleeder. People often discount him, but you cant deny that he is a pretty good fighter for his size.

As for his status, you cant deny that he is one of the greats. He fought guys like Playfair, Gillies, etc. 80s guys like Kocur, Probert, etc., and 90s guys like Domi, Brash, etc. He won against most and had a chin and endurance that is unrivaled. He didn't have KO power but he certainly had KD and TKO power. I used to not rank him high because I didn't like him, but you can't deny this guy top 10 status. He was just to effective for too many years.

He lost to Brashear 6x, but he still hung in there. He probably would have mopped the floor with the young Laraque, but I'm not so sure how he would do with today's "BGL"/Spin-Cyle-Takedown-Laraque. As for Twist, I'm pretty sure he would have owned Twist. Marty could take Kocur and Probert's punches, and Twist wasn't that much of a greater puncher. Twist also had suspect balance and endurance, so I would give the edge to Marty.

As for comparing careers. Brashear's career is slightly more impressive, giving him a one spot edge over Marty. IMO Marty has a better career than both Twist and Laraque, and they are both Top 20 on my list.

Twist would kill Marty. Laraque would throw Marty out of the rink. Brashear did kill Marty. Marty's reputation lives on in the folklore of being the Great One's protector. Good tough guy but not toughest of all time. I wouldn't give him toughest in any one year. He never beat a guy who was considered "the man". I think these greatest of all time posts give way to much credence to the old timers. Do you really believe that a prime Gillies would be able to take what a prime Chris Simon would give him? No freaking way. Guys are just too big and too strong now.

[BENNETTWOLF]

Marty was a guy i always undervalued until recently because he got so much publicity riding shotgun with Wayne Gretzky. He was 0-6 vs Don Brashear but there were very few other fighters who he didn't at least hold his own against. His stamina was unreal, his chin rock solid (only two ko's vs, Korn and one other, few tko's vs.....berube being one....more of a kd, blood stoppage). His power was pretty decent but he flat out wore people out.

He fought virtually everyone in three fistic eras including a who's who rookie campaign. Later he matured into a top 4-7 type guy for a long stretch and beat some great fighters at their peak. His series with guys like Odjick, Berube, Grimson, McCarthy, Tim Hunter and Brashear are where he compliled most of his losses but with the exception of Brash (and to a lesser degree, Berube), he held his own (at least) in the others.

Watch the "highlight reel" on Youtube....it impressed me. There's also his classics vs Probert and Odjick (Probert is on here too). Checking out his fightcard is mindnumbing but i recall that his losses to second tier alltime greats (nilan,Ray, etc) were few and far between. There were very few notables missing from his card and he beat a ledger of greats including (but by no means limited to Wendel Clark and Larry Playfair in adittion to the "series" guys i alluded to).

His weakest attribute; power was displayed by drilling Jeff Odgers, stopping the warrior like iv'e rarely, if ever, seen before.

My new list has him moving up from #20 to #8 behind Probert, Brown, Wilson, Kocur, Brashear ,Playfair and Nystrom.

[Flyers_22]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

Marty was a guy i always undervalued until recently because he got so much publicity riding shotgun with Wayne Gretzky. He was 0-6 vs Don Brashear but there were very few other fighters who he didn't at least hold his own against. His stamina was unreal, his chin rock solid (only two ko's vs, Korn and one other, few tko's vs.....berube being one....more of a kd, blood stoppage). His power was pretty decent but he flat out wore people out.

He fought virtually everyone in three fistic eras including a who's who rookie campaign. Later he matured into a top 4-7 type guy for a long stretch and beat some great fighters at their peak. His series with guys like Odjick, Berube, Grimson, McCarthy, Tim Hunter and Brashear are where he compliled most of his losses but with the exception of Brash (and to a lesser degree, Berube), he held his own (at least) in the others.

Watch the "highlight reel" on Youtube....it impressed me. There's also his classics vs Probert and Odjick (Probert is on here too). Checking out his fightcard is mindnumbing but i recall that his losses to second tier alltime greats (nilan,Ray, etc) were few and far between. There were very few notables missing from his card and he beat a ledger of greats including (but by no means limited to Wendel Clark and Larry Playfair in adittion to the "series" guys i alluded to).

His weakest attribute; power was displayed by drilling Jeff Odgers, stopping the warrior like iv'e rarely, if ever, seen before.

My new list has him moving up from #20 to #8 behind Probert, Brown, Wilson, Kocur, Brashear ,Playfair and Nystrom.

He still lost too much. It is nice that he stepped up and had battles with the big boys but he lost most of the time. For that reason I would have a hard time putting him ahead of at least Laraque and Brashear because they have had long impressive careers in their own right. Twist maybe only had about a two year prime but that version of Twist would have mopped the ice with copious amounts Marty's DNA.

[BENNETTWOLF]

Here is Marty Mac's synopsis courtesy of DYG.com leaving out many guys like Al Tuer, Lyle Odelein and Dean Kennedy that he dominated.

Baumgartner: 1-1-1
Berube 1-2-2 (Craig w one via Tko)
Brashear: 0-6
D.Brown: 0-1
M. Bridgman 0-1
Carkner: 2-0
Churla: 2-0-1
Clark: 2-1-1
Cochrane: 0-0-1
Domi: 1-0-2
Donnelly: 1-0
Ewen: 1-0-1
Gillies: 0-1
Grimson: 1-1-3
Holmgren: 0-1
T. Hunter: 3-1-1 (2 not reviewed)
Kimble: 1-0-1
Kocur: 2-2-1
Kyte: 1-3 (when Kyte was a top 5 type)
Langdon: 1-0-1
Laus: 0-0-1
Lindros: 1-0
Plett: 0-1
McCarthy: 3-0 (one not reveiwed)
McCarty: 0-2-2
Nilan: 1-2-2
Odjick: 3-2
Oliwa: 2-0-1
Paterson: 2-1 (one not reveiwed)
Playfair: 1-0
Poeschek: 1-0
Probert: 0-3-1
Ray: 1-0
ruskowski: 1-0
Stanley: 2-0
Tinordi: 1-0
Vial: 2-0 (one not reveiwed)
Wells: 0-0-1
Wilson: 0-1
Wood: 1-0

Many of the losses to the older crew were in his rookie year, not that losing to Brown ,Holmgren,Wilson,Gillies, Plett or Bridgman is shameful in any way. Outside of Brashear, Probert, Kyte and McCarty, nobody handled Marty easily. I beleive that only Berube and Nilan held series edges vs him............according to DYG.

That's one hell of a card.

[Mr. Pink]

Do you really believe that a prime Gillies would be able to take what a prime Chris Simon would give him? No freaking way. Guys are just too big and too strong now.

Gillies would smack the piss out of any version of Chris Simon. Simon is like the por man's Dave Brown. No slight to either, but get real. Gillies beat guys a lot tougher than Simon.

That is a great post Mr.Pink. When I get out of jail I owe you a beer. LOL.

Jail? What for?

[Rob666]

Originally Posted by mrpink51089

Jail? What for?

I got the cops called on me again and failed a alchole test again so I'm going away for the second time only this time for a minimum of 10 and a half months. My life isn't too bad considering that. I recently got engaged which makes me very happy but leaving makes me very sad so I guess it evens it'self out.

[Flyers_22]

[quote=mrpink51089;932478]Gillies would smack the piss out of any version of Chris Simon. Simon is like the por man's Dave Brown. No slight to either, but get real. Gillies beat guys a lot tougher than Simon.

Gillies would get tuned badly by Chris Simon. Gillies is like 210 lbs. and Simon weighs 235 lbs. Gillies wouldn't be ready for a big left hand like that and he didn't have the technical skills to hold Simon off of him. The boys of old were tough but smoked and didn't even freaking train. The guys of today are professional athletes who work at being in shape all year long. They are bigger, faster, and stronger. Simon isn't even the best of this era and he would destroy Gillies.

[Churla22]

Not sure he'd destroy Gillies, but I'd have my money on Simon. I always thought of Simon as the 90s version of Gillies - but, from the left side; both, essentially, one-armed monsters.

[Pirate]

There's no questions, during the 50's Fern Flaman was one of the toughest players in the league. In fact, he may have been the toughest because he fought everyone and won his share of fights.

Does anyone have some old footage of Flaman? I heard he had a real good fight with Lou Fontinato of the Rangers.

Read the article below on Fern Flaman:

http://bruinslegends.blogspot.com/20...rn-flaman.html

[FitzG]

I've been shooting my mouth off about Flaman for over a year here i'm surprised they don't kick me out. If you want to send me your email address i'll send you a bunch of articles backing up Flaman as the top dog of the 50's into the 60's. It's just too much to type but if you look back on the threads about the 50's you'll find a bunch of stuff on Ferny. VideoGuy hasn't posted here in a bit and is probably about the most knowledgeable regarding the 50's said he'd pick Flaman as the toughest/best fighter of that decade and some writers say he never lost. It kills me when people just say Howe and Fontinato were the best of that era but Flaman was in his own league.He didn't wave his stick around like Howe or talk alot like Fontinato but just got the job done. I have some video but not what your looking for all the good stuff is locked up in the NHL archives. I helped Joe Pelletier with that article he's a great guy, really knows his stuff and writes a good story.

Originally Posted by Pirate

There's no questions, during the 50's Fern Flaman was one of the toughest players in the league. In fact, he may have been the toughest because he fought everyone and won his share of fights.

Does anyone have some old footage of Flaman? I heard he had a real good fight with Lou Fontinato of the Rangers.

Read the article below on Fern Flaman:

http://bruinslegends.blogspot.com/20...rn-flaman.html

[Stan Jonathan#1]

Originally Posted by FitzG

I've been shooting my mouth off about Flaman for over a year here i'm surprised they don't kick me off. If you want to send me your email address i'll send you a bunch of articles backing up Flaman as the top dog of the 50's into the 60's. It's just too much to type but if you look back on the threads about the 50's you'll find a bunch of stuff on Ferny. VideoGuy hasn't posted here in a bit and is probably about the most knowledgeable regarding the 50's said he'd pick Flaman as the toughest/best fighter of that decade and some writers say he never lost. It kills me when people just say Howe and Fontinato were the best of that era but Flaman was in his own league. I have some video but not what your looking for all the good stuff is locked up in the NHL archives. I helped Joe Pelletier with that article.

Fitz keep up the fight. Send me that Wensink photo please. And one more article on Flaman (that is one Arnie and not 100). LOL.

[FitzG]

Talked to Fred Cusick a couple months back about your boy Stan. He fn' LOVED him and said he'd pick him over Wensink, O'Reilly, Secord or Cashman. Pictures were sent. You enjoying all the other smut coming your way.

[brynulf]

As an old timer (well not that old) I have to say the Top 10 list is a good one...I do not think though that Dave Brown belongs as no 2. Big and mean for his era in the 80s Brown was dropped by other tough guys. He always feared Barry Beck, Nick Foitu and Stu Grimson. Behn Wilson is a nice call but not as no 3. He was one of the toughest guys in the early part of his career but saw stars when Fotiu dropped him. Nystrom not on my top 10 list... Rick Chartraw, Barry Beck, Eddie Hospodar, Dave Williams, Lou Fontinato, John Ferguson, Stan Jonathan all deserve better placement on the list and ahead of Nystrom among others. Believe it or not... Gordie Howe deserves a top 10. With those pointy elbows and quick fists everyone steared clear of Mr.Hockey.

1) Probert 189
(2) Brown 164
(3) Wilson 158
(4) Gillies 104
(5) Fotiu 71
(6) Nystrom 66
(7) Playfair 59
(8) Jonathan 53
(9) Kocur 50
(10) McSorley 44

[FitzG]

Basically they steered clear of Howe's stick. There's a thread on here somewhere that covers Howe and where he stacks up all time but he wasn't in Flaman's league but called Ferny the toughest defenseman he ever played against.

Originally Posted by brynulf

As an old timer (well not that old) I have to say the Top 10 list is a good one...I do not think though that Dave Brown belongs as no 2. Big and mean for his era in the 80s Brown was dropped by other tough guys. He always feared Barry Beck, Nick Foitu and Stu Grimson. Behn Wilson is a nice call but not as no 3. He was one of the toughest guys in the early part of his career but saw stars when Fotiu dropped him. Nystrom not on my top 10 list... Rick Chartraw, Barry Beck, Eddie Hospodar, Dave Williams, Lou Fontinato, John Ferguson, Stan Jonathan all deserve better placement on the list and ahead of Nystrom among others. Believe it or not... Gordie Howe deserves a top 10. With those pointy elbows and quick fists everyone steared clear of Mr.Hockey.

1) Probert 189
(2) Brown 164
(3) Wilson 158
(4) Gillies 104
(5) Fotiu 71
(6) Nystrom 66
(7) Playfair 59
(8) Jonathan 53
(9) Kocur 50
(10) McSorley 44

[BENNETTWOLF]

Is that the current top ten in our voting? I've been curious about an update.