Official hockeyfights.com All-Time Top 10

[jmiller]

Blues34, I do understand where you are coming from. I was not meant as a flame but more to open up the discussion on Twist who seems to make it on a few top 10s from time to time. Actually, I am always looking for more info on anyone if a case can be made for them being a top 10 guy. IMO Twist just does not belong but if you have a case I think it would be worth hearing.

[Blues 34]

JMiller, I understand dude, this site is just for discussion, I have no idea how Twister would have done vs some of those 70's and 80's guys. I do know that he was not a very good technical fighter, if you tied up his left he was pretty much willing to go for a draw. I do know that if he landed the bomb none of them had to like it. The other critisism I had of Tony when he played was that he failed to go back after guys after they beat him other than Leroux. Both McCarthy and Bill Huard beat him when was considered the champ and he never even attempted a rematch with ether. The reason I put him so high on my limited top 10 list is that he was very tough and gets a great deal of respect from the fighters themselfes in fischlers "Bad Boys books, they speak very highly of him in both vol 2 and 4 even calling him the champ in vol 4. I hope I can get some footage of these 70's and 80's guys so I can do a better list in the future.

blues fanatic,
"Most folk heroes started out as criminals" Reg Dunlop. Blues 34 formerly Known as C-carp.

[drillcheck26]

I wouldn't worry too much about it Blues 34, I don't think many of the posters saw too much of Black Jack Stewart, and he might have been the toughest out of anybody.

In my opinion, guys nowadays are bigger and stronger than they've ever been, and they will continue to get bigger and stronger - hence my conclusion that the champ of 1998 Tony Twist is better than the "champs" of 1978 Wilson, Gillies, Fotiu, Nystrom, etc.

My Top 10 would look something like this -

1- Kocur - feared like no one I have ever seen - better than Twist

2- McCarthy - a newer Probert

3- Simon - most dominating fighter I ever saw for about a four to five year stretch - McCarthy beat him head to head so Sandy's higher

4- Twist - the new Kocur, and perhaps even more feared, but Joe had him with longevity and had a better left

5- Probert - The King, but sometimes overrated - will win every poll from now until the end of time

6- Brashear - maybe the strongest fighter that ever played - all apologies to Barry Beck - severely underrated all-time perhaps for his antics, but I also believe that he gets slighted because of his color - he's been the champ for the last 2 or 3 seasons, and should remain champ - by the time he retires, he will have one of the great win/loss percentages in league history

7- Laraque - Massive size and strength - again, I would have loved to see guys like Gillies or Wilson have to contend with a monster like this guy - he's already put up a win loss record to put him up with the greats of all-time, and I see no reason not to think that he could eventually be number one on this list

8- Brown - Had he had more upper body strength, he would hae been the best all-time

9- Grimson - severely underrated all-time - did it for so long, and so well, how could he not be in the All-Time Top 10

10- McKenzie over McSorley - Big Jim reminds me of a stronger Jack Carlson, who, I might add, had he played a few years later, and in the NHL in his prime, would have been held in just as high regard, if not higher regard than Wilson, Gillies, Playfair, or any of the
seventies greats - could flat out fight - McKenzie, however would have beaten Carlson - he would have been too strong for Carlson

Well, there you have it, my top 10 all-time for what its worth

From what I've seen already, not many people, especially those from the old school don't share my opinions - that's fine, that's whats great about America, and this message board

I gotta tell you however, that I lived through the days of the Broad Street Bullies and Fotiu and Beck and Gillies and Nystrom and the Big Bad Bruins, Playfair and Semenko, and I've seen all of the Carlsons play live - Jeff was the toughest by the way - I'll take the guys from today and recent years to dominate the guys from years ago any day of the week
that's my story and I'm sticking to it

[VodkaFish]

drillcheck - I don't agree with you at all, but the fact that you went into your reasons and such, that's fine, you're definitely entitled to your opinion. I do however have one problem with one statement. You mention Brashear "he will have one of the great win/loss percentages in league history" - I'm sorry, but one of the reasons he has so many critics is that he lost many fights when he first came into the league (and fought more of an open style). He switched to his style now while adding a few pounds, and yes, has reversed his fortune. That doesn't make him an all-time great to me though and I haven't forgotten what happened at the beginning of his career and why (style). Some guys choose to go all-out knowing they'll take some losses and that's why win/loss is not usually at the top of my list for choosing. In the end, I still think he's lost enough not to have one of the best %, but I'm not sure that it matters that much to me even if he does. As I said in the other topic, he's still in the middle of his career, and my opinion can change on him. I'll just wait for this year.

v ø d k â f ï § h

[jmiller]

Blah blah blah NS...You are the laughing stock of this board so enjoy your short stay here. Like Reaper said, Educate yourself man...you are pathetic.


Edited by - jmiller on Aug 28 2002 090400 AM

[jmiller]

That really hurt my feelings...I am going to leave you alone now....Boo-Hoo

[Kocur 26]

Drillcheck26

I see your points and you obviously know a lot about hockey but my feeling is that the guys in the '70's were tougher than the guys nowadays. Different game in that era. The guys today don't have the passion for fighting that guys like Fotiu, Wilson, Nystrom, Jonathan, Cochrane, Wensink, Playfair, etc had. Now it seems more staged. I could see Laraque and Brashear maybe tying up and hugging the guys from back then, but not beating them in a fight. Those guys wanted to hurt you, bad. The guys today, with a few exceptions, are more interested in playing hockey and when they do fight, it more often than not, turns into a waltz.
I would like to get into more detail, but I am at work and resticted by time here. Forgive me if I cannot respond to anything in a timely manner that you may want to add onto this debate. I will try.

JMiller and North Star. Let's chill guys. I think this is a good topic and we don't want to see it locked. You've made your points, let's drop it now. Thank you.

"Listen, kid. You see his face - punch it! It's no secret." Reid Simpson

[jmiller]

Kocur..where you been bud?

[Bert14]

I've always held the opinion that the best of any era could compete in any era. That goes for the best of the 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s.

The size issue certainly plays a role, but it's not the be all and end all in hockey fighting.

When I look at the list that Drillcheck has put together, and I see names like Simon, McCarthy, and Brashear, I can't help but wonder how a 6'1", 210 lb Darren Langdon managed to beat each of them. Would seem to me that if guys like Langdon, Laus, and Domi can remain competitive with this larger crop of heavy's, guys like Fotiu, Wilson, Gillies and Playfair certainly could too.

[jmiller]

I am glad the voice of reason has showed up here...Thanks Bert14.

[Suiciety]

I'd love to make a top ten list--but my knowledge base of the older fighters (pre-86) is severely lacking. So out of respect I have deferred my judgement to others like jmiller and Reaper ('cause I believe they know what they are talking about ).

But not for nothing--as some of you may know--I am a major Joey Kocur homer, lol, and damn proud of it . drillcheck26 you and I are gonna get along real well (although even I won't admit to Kocur being #1--top ten--yeah, maybe--but not #1--but I like your pick nonetheless, lol).

Birth, school, work, death...

[jmiller]

quote
So out of respect I have deferred my judgement to others like jmiller and Reaper ('cause I believe they know what they are talking about.


Hmmmm...You know Suiciety, I always liked you.

[Suiciety]

Cool beans bro--'cause I like you too, lol. Hey, make sure to sign up for the Suiciety fan club--membership is growing, lol .

Birth, school, work, death...

[EDDIESHORETOEBLAKE]

Which is why Langdon should be in the Top 10 All-Time . . . thanks Bert . . . see jmill, the voice of reason has spoken . . .

[jmiller]

ah ha....I see...I will say this Eddie, given your knowledge, if you told me Cam Russell belonged in the top ten I would still be scared to argue it with you.