Mike Bossy: the passive tough guy - Big Jack

[nilan30]

Obviously nowhere near the goal scoring prowess, but does a guy like Tomas Holmstrom get praise for the years of abuse and millions of cross checks he's taken over the years standing in front of the net? He's the best example I can think of, of a guy in today's game willing to stand in front of the net. Some here probably automatically dismiss that because he plays for the Red Wings.

[mikebflorida]

Originally Posted by nilan30

Obviously nowhere near the goal scoring prowess, but does a guy like Tomas Holmstrom get praise for the years of abuse and millions of cross checks he's taken over the years standing in front of the net? He's the best example I can think of, of a guy in today's game willing to stand in front of the net. Some here probably automatically dismiss that because he plays for the Red Wings.

Holmstrom plays a pretty rugged game as far as taking abuse but again, he's a gigantic vagina because he flops half the time and doesn't fight back.

Bossy could fight. I don't have the exact quote but recall him saying something like "I could whip most of the guys who hack me and try to fight me but I told myself when I first got to the NHL that I would let my skill as a player do my fighting for me", something to that effect, and he only lasted 10 years.

But who knows, maybe he drops the gloves against some guy and gets pummeled or gets hurt and everything changes.

I respect what those guys did, a Bossy, Ciccarelli, Andreychuk, Holmstrom and others, they took a lot of abuse to score a lot of goals, it would just be nice to have seen them fight back effectively once in a while but they let others do that for them, it's hard to knock them for that so they get a pass from me because the trade off is worth it for the team.

Now, when a tough guy ducks a fight........that's a whole different story!

[BENNETTWOLF]

Tim Kerr was another guy i liked even as an opponent. Virtually impossible to move from in front even for guys like langway or stevens. Combined with his long fuse it was easy to respect him in those 50 goal salad days.

Not a guy you wanted to anger either. I only saw Randy Holt beat him in a fight and he got a quick start in an obvious, one sided win. So annoyingly good on the power play from the same spots three feet and in. Didn't he hold the record with 34 ppg in one season?

[Flyer_Frank]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

Tim Kerr was another guy i liked even as an opponent. Virtually impossible to move from in front even for guys like langway or stevens. Combined with his long fuse it was easy to respect him in those 50 goal salad days.

Not a guy you wanted to anger either. I only saw Randy Holt beat him in a fight and he got a quick start in an obvious, one sided win. So annoyingly good on the power play from the same spots three feet and in. Didn't he hold the record with 34 ppg in one season?

Tim was an admirable player. Yeah, he could do damage in a fight. Terrific shot of course and he could finish from further out than 3 ft. Conscientious defensively, he wasn't a bad skater for such a big guy, of course very strong on the puck and a good puck control guy, but was obviously best finding some open space and using that quick release to put one in the back of the net. Sort of like Al Macinnis in the sense that the one great skill tended to overshadow a pretty well rounded game.

[JAVALITE]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

Tim Kerr was another guy i liked even as an opponent. Virtually impossible to move from in front even for guys like langway or stevens. Combined with his long fuse it was easy to respect him in those 50 goal salad days.

Not a guy you wanted to anger either. I only saw Randy Holt beat him in a fight and he got a quick start in an obvious, one sided win. So annoyingly good on the power play from the same spots three feet and in. Didn't he hold the record with 34 ppg in one season?

Agreed. The guy was a tank in the slot. I saw him live at MLG during the '85-86 season and no one was moving him once he got planted. The Leafs had a physical defence back then with guys like McGill, Nylund, Maxwell, Kotsopoulos, but Kerr had too much bulk, and too much strength.

Fighting wise he was good as well, I remember him doing a good job on Bobby McGill in the early days of their careers.

[BobNystromOwnsU]

Originally Posted by Flyer_Frank

Draft for offense and trade for defense. It was obvious Bossy was the top sniper coming out of juniors that year, I couldn't believe he dropped so far in the 1st round. My Barons drafted Mike Crombeen (dad of BJ, perhaps his only significant accomplishment) over Bossy. I'm still pissed about it!

Bossy was considered soft. No way the bullies were picking him.

[Jack Schitt]

Passive tough guy is a contradiction. The ability to withstand abuse doesnt make someone a tough guy.

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Jack Schitt

Passive tough guy is a contradiction. The ability to withstand abuse doesnt make someone a tough guy.

Baloney, it's mental toughness and you need that as a fighter also!
John McCain wasn't a tough guy? He sure as hell was!

[Jack Schitt]

Originally Posted by bigjack

Baloney, it's mental toughness and you need that as a fighter also!
John McCain wasn't a tough guy? He sure as hell was!

Then say Mike Bossy was a mentally tough guy. I understand you have a hard time wording thread titles, kind of like in the Rupp: Lundvist better than Broduer thread.

And WTF does John McCain have to do with this thread???

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Jack Schitt

Then say Mike Bossy was a mentally tough guy. I understand you have a hard time wording thread titles, kind of like in the Rupp: Lundvist better than Broduer thread.

And WTF does John McCain have to do with this thread???

I've written it many times here but you obviously missed it! Not my fault!
Rupp did say that! Any player called more CONSISTENT is better!
If you can't comprehend that what can I say!
At least you are as consistent here as in the politics thread!
Clueless!
Then again I applaud you for one thing! Your name JACK SH*T is perfect for you!

[Jack Schitt]

Originally Posted by bigjack

I've written it many times here but you obviously missed it! Not my fault!
Rupp did say that! Any player called more CONSISTENT is better!
If you can't comprehend that what can I say!
At least you are as consistent here as in the politics thread!
Clueless!
Then again I applaud you for one thing! Your name JACK SH*T is perfect for you!

Passive does not = tough

Consistent does not = better

You may have some validity to your points, but your wording sucks.


BTW... since YOU called ME "consistent"... does that mean I'm better than you????

I'm starting a new thread - Bigjack: Jack Schitt better than Me

[BENNETTWOLF]

Toughness comes in many forms. I would hope we all know that. Getting up day in, day out for years to go to work to jobs we might hate to provide for families.

Controlling our emotions when faced with casual stupidity, ignorance and indifference.

Actually thinking of others instead of solely ourselves.

I tell people now that the only fights i'm proud of are the ones i walked away from, which, with limited exceptions, is true.

I always try to explain my hobby (hockeyfights) to outsiders with saying it's fair, two guys generally sticking up for others with men there to break it up when a decided advantage is shown. It's not the street or behind bars. Not really violent in its way and certainly not ugly compared to most "violence"

We each have different views (and i see the points). I prefer BGL wishing an opponent "good luck" to wendel clark pounding on a guy on his back. Understand both but respect and admire one philosophy to another. Yeah, i love the fury of bob nystrom but like the fact linesmen are there.

Watch enough people hurt badly enough, or worse, and you'll understand where i'm coming from.

[Jack Schitt]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

Toughness comes in many forms. I would hope we all know that. Getting up day in, day out for years to go to work to jobs we might hate to provide for families.

Controlling our emotions when faced with casual stupidity, ignorance and indifference.

Actually thinking of others instead of solely ourselves.

I tell people now that the only fights i'm proud of are the ones i walked away from, which, with limited exceptions, is true.

I always try to explain my hobby (hockeyfights) to outsiders with saying it's fair, two guys generally sticking up for others with men there to break it up when a decided advantage is shown. It's not the street or behind bars. Not really violent in its way and certainly not ugly compared to most "violence"

We each have different views (and i see the points). I prefer BGL wishing an opponent "good luck" to wendel clark pounding on a guy on his back. Understand both but respect and admire one philosophy to another. Yeah, i love the fury of bob nystrom but like the fact linesmen are there.

Watch enough people hurt badly enough, or worse, and you'll understand where i'm coming from.

I agree that "toughness" comes in many forms, and I think that it is largely subjective. That being said, on a hockey fight site, it's not a stretch to assume the phrase "tough guy" may have a fighting connotation. Again, I agree with his basic premise that Bossy took a lot of abuse and didn't react. It's his opinion that made him mentally tough. That probably would have been a better thread title. There are many players past and present who are targeted and don't react by dropping the gloves.

I'm also on the same page as you are regarding "fairness". I too believe in an honorable fight, and "the code".

[mikebflorida]

There is tough as in Probert tough- fighting, hitting

There is Bossy, Kerr, Dino, Andreychuk tough- standing in front of the net taking 6 cross checks to the lower back and a hack from the goalie and not giving up.

Toughness is basically the ability to overcome the intimidation of others and that can be many different things, a sh1theel boss, a dirty player on another team, a mother raising 2 kids, a soldier running to a firefight, a fireman running in to a burning building.

It's the ability to overcome that makes one tough while those that shy away or cower are not tough.

Mario Lemieux was a wimp on the ice but showed toughness by overcoming cancer. Same with Lance Armstrong and a million other examples.

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by Jack Schitt

Passive tough guy is a contradiction. The ability to withstand abuse doesnt make someone a tough guy.

sure it does - didn't you evr kick a bully's ass in grammar or high school? They wilt when someone equal to or > steps on their toes - Most of these tough guys that had no discipline (with the strategic goal in mind, namely winning the game, and ultimately the Stanley Cup) and took just dumb penalties because heir pride was hurt usually are the wuss's that can't take it - the achilles heal of any psuedo-tough is "respect" ---- it is a charachter flaw that through fear (their own fear) try and bully lessers