Mike Bossy: the passive tough guy - Big Jack

[Morning Wood]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

I don't know. Lemieux is constantly called a pu$$y in hockey circles because he was big and didn't fight. Regular players who don't fight are called the same thing.

Dino Ciccarelli was a rat and a half and is called tough for taking so much abuse in front of the net.

I guess it depends on the player. Superstars like Orr, Gretzky, Mario, Bossy, and others get a pass from me. It's not their job to fight nor would some be good at it, they let the enforcers do their thing.

I hate the turn the other cheek mentality. Maybe Bossy should have stuck up for himself a few times early on and guys may have left him alone and he plays another 7-8 years and adds another 300-400 goals?

By no means was I insinuating that it was (or is) a superstars job to fight but every now and then... you have to protect yourself before you expect others to do it for you... Whether that is a fight or raising your stick when a guy is coming in high... It is my belief that players took advantage of the fact that Bossy wouldn't retaliate, Gretzky had Semenko early on and McSorley afterwards, can't comment on Orr as that was before my time and Mario would have had even better numbers if he had a Semenko or a McSorley full time... Caufield didn't put any fear into anyone...

[Shoryuken]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

I hate the turn the other cheek mentality. Maybe Bossy should have stuck up for himself a few times early on and guys may have left him alone and he plays another 7-8 years and adds another 300-400 goals?

Double edged sword.. if you do that and get tuned, it cam make them run you more, or get you into fights to get you off the ice.

I do see what you're getting at there though.

[JAVALITE]

Either you have it or you don't have it. Bossy wasn't a fighter, most guys are not fighters. Bossy was a goal scorer. He also knew he had to take a lot of abuse to score all the goals he did.

What Bossy refused to do was to become a perimeter player. He could have taken the easy way out, not stand in front of the net and not get hacked, and still score 30-35 goals a year. He was willing to take the extra punishment it took to become a 50-60 goal scorer.

Maybe the right words to describe Bossy was mental toughness. He knew he was going to take a beating, he knew he couldn't really defend himself with his fists, yet he kept showing up willing to take the physical abuse in exchange for goals. Bossy was willing to pay the price, some other skill guys, not so much.

[Morning Wood]

Originally Posted by JAVALITE

Maybe the right words to describe Bossy was mental toughness. He knew he was going to take a beating, he knew he couldn't really defend himself with his fists, yet he kept showing up willing to take the physical abuse in exchange for goals. Bossy was willing to pay the price, some other skill guys, not so much.

Best post in this thread by far...

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by JAVALITE

Bossy took a beating, which resulted in a shortened career. Rick Vaive was the same way here in Toronto. Vaive was bigger, more physical, and would drop the gloves, but he took a pounding standing in front of the opposition net. Looking back on it, I'm left with nothing but respect for guys like that, absorbing punishment while sniffing around for goals. Those are the guys you want on your team.

Hey BigJack, the Leafs had two first round picks in '77 as well ( doesn't it just figure ). Toronto took John Anderson and Trever Johansen with back to back picks, about 3 picks ahead of the Islanders landing Bossy. The Isles' took John Tonelli in the 2cd round that year, so the '77 draft helped the Islanders dynasty immensely.

Unreal right, I feel your pain!

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Morning Wood

If my son was getting bullied and he picked himself off the ground only to get knocked down again... and repeat... he wouldn't be getting the "that a boy, you are tough". One way it stops... you pop the bully in the nose and then beat him to the ground and you walk away... Mind you Bossy was my favorite player when I was growing up. I wasn't into the fighting back then as much as I am into now. When I watch that brawl with Phily and Wilson pummels him on the back, I don't say to myself, "gee, that is one tough bastard, laying there, allowing hte other guy to continue punching him". Is Bossy supposed fightthe likes of Wilson, **** no, but lets not make this passive toughness a new category. Is this what it has come to now? Please... Bossy's back gave out because he was visciously xcheck in the back by a Leaf (Butler I believe). He had back problems since. The Great One took a xcheck to the back courtesy of MacInnis (if memory serves) in one of those world cup games... and while I hate Mario Lemieux, he got pummeled on a nightly basis and he was a passively BIG dude... No protection for Mario, No one riding shot gun for the Great One in that game, and the Islanders did the best they could against Butler, Tiger, and the Leafs... but to call Bossy tough is an insult to all the tough guys/enforcers to ever play the game...to call Bossy tough when Gillies, Howatt, and Nystrom cleaned up **** for him is purely nuts. I am not too sure Yzerman become what he does without Probert or Kocur especially in that division). Bossy was a great player, no question as to his HOF election... and no question about his value to the Islanders... However, I wouldn't want my son to imitate his Ghandi like attitude on the ice. It simply doesn't work. That is why the greats (besides Mario) have someone riding shot gun. What is descibed about Bossy above can be said about 90% of the players playing in Bossy's era. They didn't have the stigma of a soccer player, flopping on the floor, the way they do now.

Guys like Gretzky and Lemieux get knocked because they were always playing dead on the ice or whining about anytime they were touched! That is why people knock them or hate their guts!
Bossy wasn't a whiner or phony actor but was honest and said I'm not a fighter! He played an honest game with no Hollywood bullsh*t and made teams pay on the scoreboard!
You missed the entire point!
Noone applauds bullsh*t artists like Gretzky and Lemieux were and applaud old time hockey like Bossy played!
All the bullsh*t that we see on the ice today with acting like you have been shot and killed goes back to Gretzky and later Lemieux!

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

I don't know. Lemieux is constantly called a pu$$y in hockey circles because he was big and didn't fight. Regular players who don't fight are called the same thing.

Dino Ciccarelli was a rat and a half and is called tough for taking so much abuse in front of the net.

I guess it depends on the player. Superstars like Orr, Gretzky, Mario, Bossy, and others get a pass from me. It's not their job to fight nor would some be good at it, they let the enforcers do their thing.

I hate the turn the other cheek mentality. Maybe Bossy should have stuck up for himself a few times early on and guys may have left him alone and he plays another 7-8 years and adds another 300-400 goals?

No Lemieux was called a pus*y for his phony acting Hollywood job that he learned from watching Gretzky!
Noone was knocking Guy LaFleur or Jean Ratelle in the 1970's for not being fighters or Dave Keon and Butch Goring!
Keon, Ratelle, Goring weren't flooping all over the goddamn ice acting like they were shot and dying or crying everytime someone breathed on them!

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by JAVALITE

Either you have it or you don't have it. Bossy wasn't a fighter, most guys are not fighters. Bossy was a goal scorer. He also knew he had to take a lot of abuse to score all the goals he did.

What Bossy refused to do was to become a perimeter player. He could have taken the easy way out, not stand in front of the net and not get hacked, and still score 30-35 goals a year. He was willing to take the extra punishment it took to become a 50-60 goal scorer.

Maybe the right words to describe Bossy was mental toughness. He knew he was going to take a beating, he knew he couldn't really defend himself with his fists, yet he kept showing up willing to take the physical abuse in exchange for goals. Bossy was willing to pay the price, some other skill guys, not so much.

I've mentioned that in many posts about Bossy that it takes great bravery and guts to take the hit to make the play! He was always in the corners and front of the net doing all that he could!
That is mental toughness!

[Morning Wood]

Originally Posted by bigjack

Guys like Gretzky and Lemieux get knocked because they were always playing dead on the ice or whining about anytime they were touched! That is why people knock them or hate their guts!
Bossy wasn't a whiner or phony actor but was honest and said I'm not a fighter! He played an honest game with no Hollywood bullsh*t and made teams pay on the scoreboard!
You missed the entire point!
Noone applauds bullsh*t artists like Gretzky and Lemieux were and applaud old time hockey like Bossy played!
All the bullsh*t that we see on the ice today with acting like you have been shot and killed goes back to Gretzky and later Lemieux!

Didn't miss the entire point... don't agree with it totally. Plus, we are talking two different eras of the game, you being the great historian of hockey (besides the great Stan Fischler) should know that... Javalite's statement was most appropriate and as spot on as any other in this thread. Something tells me BJ and I will never see eye to eye... time to lock this thread before BJ post something totally insane...

[bigjack]

How are we talking about a different era when Bossy played against Gretzky and Lemieux?
Clueless!

[Morning Wood]

Originally Posted by bigjack

How are we talking about a different era when Bossy played against Gretzky and Lemieux?
Clueless!

And there it is... first off, I love how you insult everyone when you feel that you are right... and second... Gordie Howe played 33 years, are we counting that as one era? I don't... and I don't give a sh*t who he played against... Bossy's career was only 9 years (78 to 87), Lemieux played from 84 to 97 and again from 00 to 06... So their years over lapped by JUST THREE (3)!!!! you have a better agrument with Gretzky (78 to 99) but tha still may not work... as they overlap for just 9 years... face it... you are far from an authority on all that is hockey and stop putting down people for having a difference in opinion or views. Go back to the Ottawa/Ranger thread where you re-opened a debate that was no longer necessary to to TRY and prove something... Did Howe and Bossy play in the same era? they both played in 80... One damn year. No need to reply... I am done with this thread... Javalite put it best... 'nough said.

[bigjack]

Clueless again, Bossy played 10 seasons as any knowledgable fan knows. To not even know that is pretty pathetic!
If your careers overlap, you have played in the same era!
Duh!
This guy calls me insane and then cries about an attack!
Grow up!

[Morning Wood]

Originally Posted by bigjack

Clueless again, Bossy played 10 seasons as any knowledgable fan knows. To not even know that is pretty pathetic!
If your careers overlap, you have played in the same era!
Duh!
This guy calls me insane and then cries about an attack!
Grow up!

You need to start taking your meds... or get out of your mother's basement and get some air... Thank you for enlightening me... didn't realize that Bossy and Howe played in the same era... I thought they were different eras considering... but you schooled me... you won the debate... you got your attention... kudos!! It is no longer reasonable to respond to anything you post...

[Mike Kole]

Mike Ricci could really take the abuse. Not in the same world as far as scoring goes, obviously. Loved watching Ricci with the Sharks & Nords!

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Morning Wood

You need to start taking your meds... or get out of your mother's basement and get some air... Thank you for enlightening me... didn't realize that Bossy and Howe played in the same era... I thought they were different eras considering... but you schooled me... you won the debate... you got your attention... kudos!! It is no longer reasonable to respond to anything you post...

Great, stay away!