Mark Messier- Tough or Dirty?

[FurnaceFace]

kind similar to gordie howe toughness and rocket richard toughness.
rocket richard probably having the biggest rap sheet in nhl history.

[JJR]

Mess was both. I swear I remember him and Kocur dropping the gloves in Detroit but neither really wanted to go, either a little scared or just respectful, so the refs stopped it before it started. I'd say mid 80's.

[rondo]

Recently watched oilers vs flyers and oilers vs bruins in the early 80's and as I stated earlier Messier is/was one of my favorite players. It was fun to watch as an adult vs kid. Messier was a bull in a china shop early in his career boy. Combine that with his speed and he was a freight train. If guys went near him he wasn't afraid to throw an elbow or cross check in a second.

He wouldn't get away with his ways today though. The rule book would get him and two he wouldn't always be one of the biggest players on the ice. Take nothing from him though he is one of the greats.

[mikebflorida]

Originally Posted by JJR

Mess was both. I swear I remember him and Kocur dropping the gloves in Detroit but neither really wanted to go, either a little scared or just respectful, so the refs stopped it before it started. I'd say mid 80's.

The guy has more almost fights than anyone I've ever seen, even the "fights" he has where he gets a major are a joke. I don't think he ever had an actual clean fight where others weren't involved, usually the ref or linesmen conveniently getting in the way so he could throw punches and not get hit back.

The guy was a total coward when it came to fighting and that's a real shame considering he was so "brave" in every other aspect of the game and gets all the accolades for being "fearless" and a great "leader" but watch his fight videos, they are a joke.

[Sioyvenheaven1]

Messier was a great leader, but he was a phony tough guy.

[Kocur4life]

Originally Posted by spiderarms

In another setting, another time, he would have been "straightened out" big time. If he was playing in the 60's and 70's he would have had to fight his own battles in which case I'm sure he would have been much more selective about his aggressions.

His first year was 1979. He played juniors in the 70's. 1980-1996 is widely regarded as the toughest time period in the NHL...EVER.

I would think that in his 23 seasons in the NHL, which he played with and against the toughest foes this league has ever seen, there were many opportunities to "straighten" Messier out as you say.

[mikebflorida]

Originally Posted by Kocur4life

His first year was 1979. He played juniors in the 70's. 1980-1996 is widely regarded as the toughest time period in the NHL...EVER.

I would think that in his 23 seasons in the NHL, which he played with and against the toughest foes this league has ever seen, there were many opportunities to "straighten" Messier out as you say.

It kills me to this day that he never was "straightened out".

It had to be dumb luck or something. I mean he was a first or 2nd line guy and anyone who would straighten him out was going to be a 4th liner guy but come on, I just can't believe a Dave Brown type never went after him or if they did, they never got a clean shot in. Makes my blood boil. Need my meds.

[Sioyvenheaven1]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

It kills me to this day that he never was "straightened out".

It had to be dumb luck or something. I mean he was a first or 2nd line guy and anyone who would straighten him out was going to be a 4th liner guy but come on, I just can't believe a Dave Brown type never went after him or if they did, they never got a clean shot in. Makes my blood boil. Need my meds.

McSorley pounded on his bald head.

[I like Boobs]

You'd have to be pretty tough to get at Messier because he was always insulated - You're talking about a guy who was captain of some of the greatest teams of all time, was second highest scorer in NHL history and one of the dirtiest guys that ever played the game. And he was always insulated with some of the toughest guys that ever played riding shotgun beside him. He had Semenko, McClelland, McSorely, Brown, Buchberger and Srehm's boy Don Jackson in Edmonton. Than he emigrates to New York with all the other Oiler alumni, and he gets guys like Domi, Kocur, Langdon, Kypreos, and his own bodyguard Adam Graves.

Than if you ever did get to him, you had to worry about what kind of cheap shot he'd get you with because he had that Gordie Howe elephant memory for retribution. It wasn't an easy thing to just "get" Messier. He was protected very thoroughly.

[mikebflorida]

Originally Posted by Sioyvenheaven1

McSorley pounded on his bald head.

yeah but not enough.

Refs jumped right in when Marty got the upper hand. Messier had more protectors than Michael Jackson.

[FurnaceFace]

found the clip of the probert domi round 1 and 2 . with the reference to messier. wasnt exactly how i remembered it.

Tie Domi on Probert, Showboating, Messier -...

[FurnaceFace]

this one aint so bad, nobody jumps in.

Dennis Ververgaert vs Mark Messier Jan 27, 1980 -...

but yeah messier fights are kinda hard to come by.

[rondo]

One guy that I'm surprised never pushed the envelope harder with messier is lindros . I know that lindros looked up to messier but they had some serious battles in the Philly/ranger days and jawed at each other on many occasions.

[FurnaceFace]

Good point. I think eric lindros would of taken him too. Eric has a pretty good fight card. But like said before you mess with certain guys and you have an entire team you have to look out for. An messier would of scott stevens him.

[Habs # 1]

"Betcha can't eat just one"