Lineage of the Heavyweight Champ & Top Ten Lists '75-'09

[Shoryuken]

Does Berube derserve a mention anywhere? After all, he seemed to give quite a few top-tier fighters a lot of trouble in his prime..

[HordiBrusk29]

Unfortunately for Berube, he played during a real tough era where it would be hard for him to stand out as the heavyweight champion.

Anyway, back to the topic, great post Merlin. Nice work and effort. Much appreciated....

[Merlin401]

Originally Posted by EDDIESHORETOEBLAKE

BTW, I suppose if you had to break it down to a true linear lineage, I suppose it would be fair to say – Eddie Shore to Black Jack Stewart to Lou Fontinato to Gordie Howe to Kurtenbach to Ferguson to Cashman(?) to Maloney to Schultz to Gillies to Wilson to Playfair to Kyte(?) to Brown to Probert to Crowder to Probert to McCarthy(?) to Twist to Grimson(?) to Laraque to Brashear . . ."

This is what I was trying to go for but found it was impossible to do, though I like how this turned out. THe only thing is when there was simply no way to determine who was better I had to make overlapping or co-champs. Like the "Howe to Kurtenbach to Ferguson" part... the latter two never fought but were dominating for almost the exact same time period. Then with Schultz to Gillies to Wilson, its very interesting because Gillies beat the "old" king and Fotiu beat the "new" king, but the two in the middle never squared off to determine who was undisputed king from 77-80. But thanks for adding your lineage as well...excellent to compare the two and see that its 95% the same just with a slightly different perspective.

Also, thanks everyone for feedback. Its interesting that I thought it would be a LOT more debateable a list than it actually has tunred out to be. I guess there really is a pretty good consensus of who the top dog is at any given time.

GOON, as far as a deciding factor, I was really just trying to go for the consensus opinion. Sometimes it was obviously one fight that did it (Wilson crushing Gillies) and sometimes the old king would fade out and a new one fade in. No one forumla for picking just who I think everyong thought was the best at a given time...

[cottonzway]

Not that I know a ton about him but wasn't Jimmy Mann considered champ for a year or two in the late 70's? Nice thead Merls.

[Travis24]

Nice thread and post Merlin, I think the reason you haven't gotten a lot of debate is because your time line and reasoning behind the rankings are very solid, some might point out a fighter or two deserving of mention for a single year, but overall who can argue?

[the bong]

Originally Posted by Travis24

Nice thread and post Merlin, I think the reason you haven't gotten a lot of debate is because your time line and reasoning behind the rankings are very solid, some might point out a fighter or two deserving of mention for a single year, but overall who can argue?

derek sanderson in his book 'i have got to be me" claimed the title after he beat vic hatfield of rangers in the 60"s does that count

[turnash]

Originally Posted by Merlin401

Alright, I made up my mind on twist and put him in from fall 95 to 1998. Saying 1996 as a starting point doesn't really work because he ended 95-96 with those bad losses to Huard and Leroux and also had the TKO loss to Ewen early in the 96-97 season. So starting around his breaking Ray's face in the fall of 1995 seems about reasonable I guess...

Hook, Cairns istn' on the list (yet). Just a potential coming attraction. I'm not sold on Johnson as a champ yet. Cairns could be if his career path continues as it is going I think.

Merlin...

Great post and job on the list. I think you pretty much nailed it.

One thought,should Kocur get a nod for the 89-90 season as Probert was out of the game and Brown lost to Kimble ,Cronin and had a very close fight with Grimson that could have been scored either way?

Again, excellent work.

[Merlin401]

Originally Posted by turnash

One thought,should Kocur get a nod for the 89-90 season as Probert was out of the game and Brown lost to Kimble ,Cronin and had a very close fight with Grimson that could have been scored either way?

Ahh, I knew someone would figure out that this was a problem year. Along with 71-73 this one year is where I had the most trouble. The one problem I had with Kocur was that he was coming off his worst loss (the TKO loss to Raglan) which was like the last or 2nd to last fight he had the year before so I'm not sure he was considered the champ coming in. Brown had the rep from before, and while its true Kimble did beat him, he came back to beat Kimble pretty good in the rematch I believe. So that was my logic, but good point bringing it up... it was a weak year for my logic. The other thought I had was possibly McSorley.

[gillies]

just want to say...nice job..though we all know that it's a labor of love for you..it still takes some work to list all the guys and the era that they reigned in.. tough call with berube, as we all love him, but as sinatra would sing.." that's life"....

[the bong]

Originally Posted by gillies

just want to say...nice job..though we all know that it's a labor of love for you..it still takes some work to list all the guys and the era that they reigned in.. tough call with berube, as we all love him, but as sinatra would sing.." that's life"....

.........and going way back to the 30's 40's and early 50's when men were men, legends spreg cleghorn (who claimed in a 60's stan fishler book to of been in 50 "stretcher case fights") the great red horner who led the nhl in pims 8 times and knock ted lindsay cold after his career ending hit on ace baily. the news paper report stan refered to said that ted lindsay "laid in a pool of his on blood 6 feet in diameter" i no longer have the book but remember these details very well !

[gillies]

Originally Posted by the bong

.........and going way back to the 30's 40's and early 50's when men were men, legends spreg cleghorn (who claimed in a 60's stan fishler book to of been in 50 "stretcher case fights") the great red horner who led the nhl in pims 8 times and knock ted lindsay cold after his career ending hit on ace baily. the news paper report stan refered to said that ted lindsay "laid in a pool of his on blood 6 feet in diameter" i no longer have the book but remember these details very well !

thanx for the history lesson!!! but remember, in hockey ,men are always men...no wusses allowed on the ice!!!!

[Bob Probert]

This is a GREAT post. Lots of time and effort put into this with exact dates etc. Co-champs, i also agree with. Probie/Brown... Simon/McCarthy/Twist.. Brash/Laraque. I also agree with ..no Cairns YET. I think he's close, but JUST out of it. Again, great post!

[gillies]

i saw someone mention lou fontinato.. i was wondoring who he played for as he was before my time...

[gillies]

forget my last post.. i noticed that merlin listed the rangers as fontinato's team.. missed it before.. looks like i get the instigater!!! lol...

[the bong]

Originally Posted by gillies

forget my last post.. i noticed that merlin listed the rangers as fontinato's team.. missed it before.. looks like i get the instigater!!! lol...

..fontinato played before instigater rule ! in the 6 team days everybody had to be ready to go. it was said 'leapin lou' built his rep on jumping guys from behind (he tried that one time to many with howe!) .