John Ferguson
 

I need some help from the veterans out there. I have read a little on the fighting skills for Ferguson but have never seen anything. I recenlty read about a dream fight between Probie and Ferguson and the author of the book (Crunch) declared Ferguson the winner. Can anyone out there give me some details about the man? I know he had a tremendous rep but I do not know too much about him.

FitzG and Videoguy know their oldtime hockey really well. I think they are legit old timers that have first hand knowledge on many of the old school guys. They post in the 'all-time' thread at the top of the page.
Like many here, I've only heard stories, but Fergie is definitely an 'all-timer', but there's either not enough old guys on this thread, or any tape on his fights.

I read in a book that Ferguson was one of the best if not the best tough guy of his era and that he broke Bobby Hull's jaw in a fight.

John Ferguson was the original "Policeman," and he was a HUGE force to be reckoned with on the ice. If you compared him to players of modern times he would be the original Clark Gillies only much more prone to fighting. Fergie was the ultimate competitor and he didn't lose... EVER. In fact, from everything I have been able to read (and I have done a great deal of research) is that Fergie lost to Simon Nolet in a bench clearing brawl.*** Apparently Ferguson was being held from behind in this fight (according to him) and he went after Nolet to avenge the loss and Nolet begged for mercy and for one of the few times in his career, Ferguson actually relented on an opponent.

Some of the vets on this site will have done so already, but I reccomend reading "Thunder and Lightning: The John Ferguson Story." Fergie's book is the insiders look at the NHL during the original 6 period from the first ever designated enforcer's perspective. I don't have the book on me at the time (Its at my parents house) but one of my favorite stories is about Ferguson's first NHL game. Fergie was called up from the Cleveland Barons and Toe Blake put him on a line with Bernie "Boom Boom" Geoffrion and was told to "Look after them and make sure they're ok. They're no longer spring chickens." The trio started the game and off the opening face-off Fergie came together with the than NHL Champ "Terrible" Teddy Green. From all accounts (EVEN BOSTON! No Sanderson ... lol :D ) Ferguson laid a TKO beating on Green, than went on to have 2 goals and 2 assists.

Another one of my favorite stories is that during a particular game there was a brawl going on, on the ice. A smaller Habs forward was being abused by the opposition and Ferguson was about to leap over the boards and lead the charge to help his teammate. Bernie "Boom Boom," Geoffrion put his hand out to stop him and said "Why bother?" In his book Fergie writes "He still doesn't know how close he came to having the **** beat out of him."

Finally one of my all-time favorite stories about Ferguson was about his competitve nature. Fergie would NEVER associate with the opposition... EVER. Not even off of the ice, in the off-season. For example one time in the warm-up his goaltender was chatting in a friendly manner with a member of another team... Fergie didn't appreciate this so he fired a puck at his own goalies FACE and told him to wake the **** up! Beautiful. Anyway one time after a heated Montreal vs Toronto game, one of Fergies teammates (the player escapes me at the time but Im thinking it was Pete Mahovlich... feel free to correct me if Im wrong) and Fergie were having a steak dinner after the game. One of the Leafs players (I think it was Eddie Shack... again feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) showed up and Fergie was soooo pissed at seeing a hated rival there that he left without eating his steak. Now thats the kind of story I love to hear!

I have Ferguson in my top 3 all time - behind Probert and Behn Wilson. Its a gutsy call because there is almost absolutely nothing out there with regards to video, but all of the old-timers agree that he was the best of the best. I've only heard of the loss to Nolet. Thoughts?

That was a very interesting read ILB. I too have only heard stories but my grandfather told me he was as feared a player as any he had ever seen.

John Ferguson
 

I could write 10 pages on my thoughts on John Ferguson. He had a great impact on the NHL. I believe that if Toronto had acquired Fergy (and they had a chance), then they would have won the Cups in 1965 & 1966. Fergy had that much of an impact.
I have seen many of Fergy's fights at the time on tv and on tape afterwards. I've also talked to many of his opponents.

First of all, Fergy did not break Hull's jaw in the fight. He cross-checked Hull in the face and in the ensuing fight which I saw and that the Montreal papers wrote about, you could say Hull won the fight slightly. Larry Hillman got the better of Fergy one night and Fergy admits that. Simon Nolet did cut Fergy but he had a ring on his hand to help do the damage.
I know that Fergy writes about his fights in his book but sometimes these first person accounts, are slightly exaggerated.

Fergy almost always threw the first punch so he always had the advantage. He was also very mean and that gave him a great edge. Fergy also attacked non-fighters despite what you may have heard (Brit Selby, Paul Henderson etc.). And Fergy also fought the same guys because he knew he could handle them. But I've seen Don Awrey, Bob Nevin, Eddie Shack and others do well against him.

But he stayed clear of guys like Kurtenbach and Horton because he needed to keep his reputation intact.

Fergy always looked for fights (and jumped guys) but he could play the game. Of course, he was given lots of room out there because of his rep. Fergy also ran goalies a lot and also would shoot the puck at the goalies after the whistle. Things like that wouldn't be tolerated today.
Yes, he was a 'policeman' as that was what they were called then, but he was also a bit of a 'goon' for the reasons I mentioned above.

He retired rather early and he could see the NHL was changing at that time with bigger and tougher players coming into the league. He probably made the right choice to leave when he did.

Good info VG and ILB.I'm an old guy so I can remember watching Fergie play,but have no videos or print stuff so I'm going strictly on foggy memories---due to concusions and uh 'other stuff'.I never get tired of reading about the good ole' days.I remember that he had a big rep and some hockey skills besides the fists.So Eddie Shack did OK against him,surprising.I like Fergies attitude,about opposing players,if you can't hate the opposition who can you hate?

Great stories all. Thanks for the insight. I will check out his book.

Since I started following hockey at an early age, I was fortunate enough to have witnessed quite a few of his fights on T.V. Seems like every time he was on "Game of the Week" he got into a fight. After he had already broke Hull's jaw, they almost fought in the next game, jaw wired shut and all. As it appeared they were ready to go, they went to a commercial! When they came back we saw that it got broken up before they were able to go, thankfully. I also followed Fergie's career closely thru newpapers and magazines. He was definitely regarded as the league's top "policeman" at one time. He did get out at the right time as he started losing his "invincibility". In addition to the fights previously mentioned that he may have lost or drawn, there was also one in I believe 1971 with Reggie Fleming, another top fighter of the time that he got at best a draw out of. Fergie absolutely goes down as one of the best of all time.

Great info guys!
The one thing I love about hockey, is how the players keep separate. There are no friends on the opposition before or after the game.

I watch basketball (rarely) and see guys laughing with one another...it makes me want to puke. Even, the NFL, which I love, the guys will go talk, and joke with their friends and ex-teammates after the game. That's hor5e5hit. Save that for the end of the year. Let us watch the guys who are willing to kill one another to win.

Although i have seen only limited footage of Ferguson fighting, he still squeaked into my alltime top10 on legend. He never messed up Eddie Shack who hung in there with Fergy each time i saw them go.

With all due respect to Fergy i think Probert would have made him just another statistic, kind of how he did it to contenders like Glen Cochrane, etc. There is NO REASON from what i have seen to even consider for a second that Fergy would beat Probert. Ferguson was one of the biggest guys in his reign (only about 6'1 195), not big enough to handle Probert,I think alot of the oldtimers who laud Ferguson are partial to the "good old days" and the legends that were created by those men who played hockey in the winter and had to get a real job in the summer to support their families. Guys really played for the love of the game but NO WAY Fergy beats Probert..

Fergy
 

Fergy never did fight anyone as big as Probert. Those guys just weren't around. There was Kurtenbach but Fergy stayed away from him. When Kurtenbach was destroying Harper, Fergy was on the ice and didn't seem too interested in helping his teammate.
Sometimes its a matter of preserving your reputation. Look at what a loss did to Pierre Bouchard.

I'll repeat this again. Fergy did not break Hull's jaw in the fight.

On another note, I am halfway through Phil Esposito's new book and I've found many errors already. Espo identifies players in incidents that weren't even around and makes other mistakes. But that is what he remembers. If makes you wonder about the truth in some of these books.

I always felt bad for the guy about that incident. I mean solely because he was beaten by a "little guy" in Jonathan he went from tops to traded to no mans land.

Anything Esposito says should be taken with a grain of salt, to me he seems like a story weaver and although i cant remember the incidents , i've heard him say totally outlandish things in the past(that made me say to myself"what an idiot"), a true(or false) legend weaver.

I worked for the Jets from 1984-1993 on and off and I can tell you that Ferguson's refusal to converse with the enemy was absolutly true. (Except if an old friend was coaching the other team.) We, the program-kids (the kids who sold programs,) were under orders to never converse with any Oilers. (The Jets and Oilers had a rivalry going in the mid-80's.) Talking to Gretzky when he came in the building was punishable by termination. (Weather he was joking or not I will never know because I never saw Gretzky enter the building in all the years I worked there while Big John was Jets' GM.)

Nobody was more respected in our organization than Fergie. We all knew he was the single biggest reason why we got into the NHL in 1979 and the reason we were a competitive team in the 80's. (We had our WHA dynasty taken away by the NHL while Hartford, Quebec and Edmonton got to keep all of their young and old stars. We bounced back into one of the more entertaining teams in the NHL and always competitive in the hottest division in the league thanks to Big John.) We also knew he could still take many of the top enforcers of the day so nobody crossed him. (He had one way glass in his booth in the press box because he had a tendancy to throw chairs and other objects and ownership didn't want him getting in the papers for it. True story!)