Jim McKenzie- Where?

[mikebflorida]

I think it's high time we talk about something other than Nick Fotiu or Wayne Cashman, not that those are bad topics but they get derailed really fast.

I have Jim McKenzie ranked pretty durn high, I think he was a teriffic fighter but wanted to give him his own thread for discussion because I think some guys rate him lower than he should be.

I'll add to this as time goes on, some videos and such or feel free to add videos you think pertain to the topic as in "I rank him high because of this" or "I think he sucks cuz of this" type stuff.

He played 14 years and had 172 NHL fights not including pre or post season so he was very active, had great skills for a big man, was good with both hands, fast, strong as an ox, could take a punch, and had great intelligence and durability.

My only gripe with him is that he never seemed like he wanted to fight or went looking for it to often, he didn't have that killer instinct like Brown did and he didn't have a whole truckload of highlight reel fights like Probert which I think is about the only thing that separates him from being as good as they were.

Please discuss.

[JKidd]

Jim the gentleman.

I've got him in the top 20, probably top 15 for myself.

He holds a lot of high profile, dominant wins over a lot of greats...
TKO wins over Tony Twist
Wins over Sandy McCarthy in a few awesome fights
Beat up Ken Baumgartner
Outlasted Darren Langdon
Beat down Troy Crowder a couple times
Blasted away Todd Ewen
Put a beating on Craig Berube
Edged Paul Laus
Beat Georges Laraque

Only big knock on Jim, is that he could not for the life of him figure out Donald Brashear. I don't know the official number, but I can recall at least twice where Donny easily beat him, and maybe a third time (wish I had my ex-HD at work to look into this part more).

I can't recall off the top of my head either, but didn't Stu Grimson put a beating on Jim a time or two?

Either way, given the fact he took apart Twister twice, and beat Sandy a few times in his prime when just about everyone else failed in that regard, Jim McKenzie gets high marks from me.

[mikebflorida]

Originally Posted by jkidd

Jim the gentleman.

I've got him in the top 20, probably top 15 for myself.

He holds a lot of high profile, dominant wins over a lot of greats...
TKO wins over Tony Twist
Wins over Sandy McCarthy in a few awesome fights
Beat up Ken Baumgartner
Outlasted Darren Langdon
Beat down Troy Crowder a couple times
Blasted away Todd Ewen
Put a beating on Craig Berube
Edged Paul Laus
Beat Georges Laraque

Only big knock on Jim, is that he could not for the life of him figure out Donald Brashear. I don't know the official number, but I can recall at least twice where Donny easily beat him, and maybe a third time (wish I had my ex-HD at work to look into this part more).

I can't recall off the top of my head either, but didn't Stu Grimson put a beating on Jim a time or two?

Either way, given the fact he took apart Twister twice, and beat Sandy a few times in his prime when just about everyone else failed in that regard, Jim McKenzie gets high marks from me.

I just watched 30 McKenzie fight videos and it only had 1 fight vs Brashear with Brash in Montreal and it was a pretty good fight, pretty close, that's the only one I've seen recently but as you noted, he won fights against some of the great of that early to late 90's era that included some great fighters.

Domi completely turtled against him.

Had several TKO wins in the fights I watched, had a great fight with Dave Brown with both landing some shots and then falling, really had his way with Twist, Ewen, Bomber, Crowder, Berube and many othersm he just looked dominant in most of his fights.

The fights where he didn't dominate, he certainly drew or didn't lose by much if he did lose. Did real well with Probert and Brown.

His ability to switch hands was his greatest asset, he might be the best ever in that regard, even better than Probert.

I've got him at 5th all time which some say is too high but I think it's reasonable considering his card and winning percentage and his abilities in general, he was a bad mamma jamma! I just think he is horribly underrated.

He was pretty clean too. Out of those 30 fights I watched, it only showed him hitting 2 guys when they were down, Darryl Sydor who was dumb enough to drop leather with him and Domi who turtled badly, I mean he looked really bad doing that and you could see it in his face after, he was embarrassed. But Jim was really clean, squared off and did his job and skated away when it was over and didn't seem like a yapper, that gets a lot of credit from because unlike a guy like Brashear who bailed and acted like a butt hole sometimes, Jim was the opposite and that's why I have him ranked above Brashear, even if he did have his issues with him.

[srehm1]

15-20 range, all-time. he was a great fighter who weaved his way in and out of the top-10 throughout his career. At best probably a top-5 fighter. Nice overall career, solid run as one of the game's best in one it's greatest eras.

I think the last time I made a regular 1-20 list I had him at #16.

Loved his style. he switched hands fluidly and he had fast hands for a guy his size. His battles with McCarthy, Twist, Kordic, Grimson, Crowe, and vukota stand out for me-even his KO of Bill Huard in the AHL. For what it's worth, he also had some good battles with Serge Roberge in the AHL. i have a few news H/L's of their fights and they looked like good, even toe to toe style affairs.

[srehm1]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

His ability to switch hands was his greatest asset, he might be the best ever in that regard, even better than Probert.

Yeah, probert could switch hands but he didn't throw a vicious left. Sometimes it was more of change of pace type thing where he would throw it to take your mind off his right for a while. McKenzie switched so much faster and could throw comfortably from either side. And he threw fast, too.

[mikebflorida]

Originally Posted by srehm1

Yeah, probert could switch hands but he didn't throw a vicious left. Sometimes it was more of change of pace type thing where he would throw it to take your mind off his right for a while. McKenzie switched so much faster and could throw comfortably from either side. And he threw fast, too.

Bingo, I don't think I've seen a guy, certainly not his size anyway, that could throw that well with either hand and do damage, Probert is the closest in that regard. other guys could throw faster like Berube and Kordic but not much and Jim did with both hands, truly a dangerous opponent!

[jayc948]

McKenzie falls in the 25-30 range for me. In the same fold as guys like Berube and Jay Miller. Very good fighters, but not great.

[GOON 21]

McKenzie is better than Miller and Berube


I would put him in the high teens 20 ish range - a shorter fuse and meaner streak may have helped in the long run/grand scheme but he was a damn good NHL fighter for over a decade


Thats the other thing with McKenzie, he had a longer 'run' than most NHL heavyweights, the guy was force on the ice and could beat ANY top 5 NHL heavy, he was the real deal

[Morning Wood]

He would easily make top five if he added more aggressiveness towards fighting... in a decade where the top fighters were easily averaging 20/30 fights a year, he managed to average less (based on the numbers provided above). Too often he let guys off the hook. Godard suffers the same lack of aggression. With that said, entertaining to watch, when he decided he needed to beat on someone...

[Shoryuken]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

Bingo, I don't think I've seen a guy, certainly not his size anyway, that could throw that well with either hand and do damage, Probert is the closest in that regard. other guys could throw faster like Berube and Kordic but not much and Jim did with both hands, truly a dangerous opponent!

Link Gaetz and Ken Belanger come to mind, a rare thing though definatley to have a guy the size of these who can throw with both hands, with speed and steam..

[Shoryuken]

Back to the purposes of the topic, 15-20 for me, maybe 12-15 on a good day.

[Leaf2717]

Went to AHL [Binghamton and Springfield] and Whaler games when he was on the rosters. Saw him scrap live once. I also do not remember him on tape or news highlight until he was a NJ Devil.

Looking at his tapes in retrospect he seems very capable. Just not active enough and no "wow" factor fights for me.

When Nick Kypreos, Marc Laforge, Steve Dykstra, Adam Burt and Corey Beaulieu come to mind before Mckenzie I can not in good faith rank him highly even if he is "technically" skilled.

All the best

[E.C.]

I think Jim McKenzie was very underrated. He dropped Tony Twist not once but twice. He managed to stick around for a long time (14 seasons) during which he played for 8 different teams! He knew what his role was and performed it very well. I'm glad he won a Cup with New Jersey.

Some other guys that McKenzie beat that weren't on jkidd's list include: Bob Probert, Stu Grimson twice (although the Grim Reaper dropped him in one fight), Shawn Cronin, Tim Hunter, John Kordic, Francois Leroux, Randy McKay, Chris Nilan, Mick Vukota, Ryan VandenBussche, Reid Simpson, Jim Cummins, and Mike Peluso. He also managed to beat young up and coming enforcers near the end of his career like: Andrew Peters, Jody Shelley, and Wade Belak (put a beating on him).

[mikebflorida]

Originally Posted by Leaf2717

Went to AHL [Binghamton and Springfield] and Whaler games when he was on the rosters. Saw him scrap live once. I also do not remember him on tape or news highlight until he was a NJ Devil.

Looking at his tapes in retrospect he seems very capable. Just not active enough and no "wow" factor fights for me.

When Nick Kypreos, Marc Laforge, Steve Dykstra, Adam Burt and Corey Beaulieu come to mind before Mckenzie I can not in good faith rank him highly even if he is "technically" skilled.

All the best

Forgive me but who the hell is Cory Beaulieu? And if you've heard of him before Mckenzie, I just dont know what to say about that.

Mckenzie didn't get a lot of press it seems. For one of the best skilled fighters I've ever seen, he's a ghost. I just can't figure it out. Why so under rated? He's beaten many of the guys in my top 50 and did really well against some top 10 guys like Probert, Brown, and Laraque but people want to rank Simon, Twist, and even Baumgartner ahead of him? Does not compute.

Give me a legit reason why. 172 fights is plenty active, he was just a quiet, no frills, no press, lunch pail guy. He didn't ko a bunch of tomato cans but he kicked ass. What's the beef?

[Leaf2717]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

Forgive me but who the hell is Cory Beaulieu? And if you've heard of him before Mckenzie, I just dont know what to say about that.

I attended, and still attend, alot of games. Beaulieu fought as an AHL Whaler McKenzie did not.

Entertainment and "value" plays into my ranking. Mckenzie was not very entertaining. I have given him credit for skill but, as someone who watched him live quite a bit, can not say he was an intimidator, enforcer, or presence in games.

Good fighter - yes. Worthy of mention with the top guys - not in my opinion.

All the best.