irate Gillies vs. prime Kocur

[nighthawk]

Well like it was mentioned Kocur's style was tailor made for Gillies being Kocur would usually take a few before landing the big bomb which could prove deadly against Jethro.Though on the other hand Gillies had a tendency to take some of his opponents lightly(which he admitted in an interview) which could certainly enable him to fall prey to the Kocur bomb. Though I could'nt imagine anyone taking Kocur lightly yet you never knew what version of Gillies you would get in a fight and if he tried to toy with Kocur as he seemed to do against McSorley and Wilson in their 2nd fight it certainly could be lights out for him.

In a best of seven I would say :

3-2-2 Gillies

[2,5,10GameMatch]

Originally Posted by SimonKO

You act as if he never traded punches with anyone.

I think Kocur was prettying entertaining. Had Ray hanging on for dear life along with Twist. Watching him send Brashear off balance with a missed punch was fun. Caufield fight, Jackson, Neely, him dropping Nylund, the Gaetz fights, and the Probert fights. Those are off the top of my head. He probably had more entertaining fights then all 63 or whatever fights Gillies had in his career.

Why not "hide" behind his bomb... when that's all it takes.

Everyone he fought had Rob Ray hanging on for dear life at that point in his career, Ray was a speedbag when he fought Kocur, Twist? he wasnt much better than Ray at the start of his career when he fought Kocur. Jeff Jackson? The toothless wonder? ever wonder why he had no teeth? = another speedbag and he fell out of fear more than anything else in his fight with Kocur my friend.

Kocur may have dropped Nylund but I saw Nylund KO Kocur live, so they're even.

Gillies would have fought more, had people been more eager to fight him(but only the foolhearty messed with him) and he was a shadow of his former self when he fought Byers too, If the 1978 Gillies fought the prime Byers? he'd of half killed the man.

And as far as the Wilson-Gillies comparison goes, Wilson started fast, faster then Gillies,Kocur started slow, he'd let the guy get a few punches in while he set himself, that would be a mistake if he tried it against Gillies, Lights out Joey.

[SimonKO]

Originally Posted by 2,5,10GameMatch

Everyone he fought had Rob Ray hanging on for dear life at that point in his career, Ray was a speedbag when he fought Kocur, Twist? he wasnt much better than Ray at the start of his career when he fought Kocur. Jeff Jackson? The toothless wonder? ever wonder why he had no teeth? = another speedbag and he fell out of fear more than anything else in his fight with Kocur my friend.

Kocur may have dropped Nylund but I saw Nylund KO Kocur live, so they're even.

Gillies would have fought more, had people been more eager to fight him(but only the foolhearty messed with him) and he was a shadow of his former self when he fought Byers too, If the 1978 Gillies fought the prime Byers? he'd of half killed the man.

And as far as the Wilson-Gillies comparison goes, Wilson started fast, faster then Gillies,Kocur started slow, he'd let the guy get a few punches in while he set himself, that would be a mistake if he tried it against Gillies, Lights out Joey.

Those are fight I feel are entertaining........

Don Jackson...

Yes.... "lights out" as it would be if Kocur caught him.

Yeah yeah reputation, would of fought more... I know all about it.

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by SimonKO

I don't even know why you said anything about Kocur being boring. And I'm just stating that I don't think Kocur is boring................................. so get over it.

Just take out the Winston Churchill quote and put...." I think Kocur is boring" so you won't have to say it over and over and make threads about it.

Anyways the "irate" (laugh) vs a prime Kocur.
4-3-3 gillies wins. Or Gillies would hold like many did. If it's a wide open fight Kocur had the power to put Gillies down for good.

Whatever you say Einstein - Whatever!

[SimonKO]

I've changed my mind...

4-3 to Kocur with 3 draws also

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by SimonKO

I've changed my mind...

4-3 to Kocur with 3 draws also

Really?

[EDDIESHORETOEBLAKE]

Originally Posted by 2,5,10GameMatch

Kocur may have dropped Nylund but I saw Nylund KO Kocur live, so they're even.

Really? This is the first time I've ever heard of Nylund KO'ing Kocur . . . was it an actual KO (like Vandy on Kypreos) or just a KD (Cronin on Brown) or TKO (Kimble on Crowder) . . .

[2,5,10GameMatch]

Originally Posted by EDDIESHORETOEBLAKE

Really? This is the first time I've ever heard of Nylund KO'ing Kocur . . . was it an actual KO (like Vandy on Kypreos) or just a KD (Cronin on Brown) or TKO (Kimble on Crowder) . . .

I'll tell you this much, Kocur went down very hard from the punch and although he was up before a 10 count, he looked quite queer on his way to the box, half out on his feet.

[Saskachuck]

Over the course of his career Kocur showed that he could be had from time to time and has a few big losses, but I don't hear many guys making excuses for him. Gillies, on the other hand, apparently just wasn't "irate" or "angry" or "motivated" when he lost- Bull!! I've never heard another fighter's name mentioned so often as having to be "woken up" or "angered" to get into the game or fight or whatever. This aspect of Gillies falls firmly into the MYTH category- when the dude lost its because the other guy beat him, not because he wasn't "irate" enough. We've dispelled myths about Gordie Howe, Mark Messier, Ted Green, and, to a certain extent, Stan Jonathan around here, let's put this one to rest as well...

[ewen21]

Originally Posted by Saskachuck

Over the course of his career Kocur showed that he could be had from time to time and has a few big losses, but I don't hear many guys making excuses for him. Gillies, on the other hand, apparently just wasn't "irate" or "angry" or "motivated" when he lost- Bull!! I've never heard another fighter's name mentioned so often as having to be "woken up" or "angered" to get into the game or fight or whatever. This aspect of Gillies falls firmly into the MYTH category- when the dude lost its because the other guy beat him, not because he wasn't "irate" enough. We've dispelled myths about Gordie Howe, Mark Messier, Ted Green, and, to a certain extent, Stan Jonathan around here, let's put this one to rest as well...

Well put. It's silly to plug in who is motivated and who is not in a fight. If you drop the gloves that means you are ready to fight. In addition, why do we have to say and "irate" Gilles? How about just Gilles? Or is that not enough in this case?

[ewen21]

Originally Posted by EDDIESHORETOEBLAKE

Really? This is the first time I've ever heard of Nylund KO'ing Kocur . . . was it an actual KO (like Vandy on Kypreos) or just a KD (Cronin on Brown) or TKO (Kimble on Crowder) . . .

I too am unfamiliar with this fight, so I am not going to trust the statement. I'd have to see it for myself to know for sure.

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by ewen21

I too am unfamiliar with this fight, so I am not going to trust the statement. I'd have to see it for myself to know for sure.

Don't worry I am sure it never happened. Kocur being knocked down? Perish the though - Impossible! - I mean, really, the unmitigated gall of someone to insinuate that a human being (in this case JK) is subject to the same foibles as us mortal men, simply preposterous! This is almost as rediculous as the ol days when people actually said that a Bruin lost a fight. Sleep well tonight - This is simply the well oiled figment of someone's imagination

[ewen21]

Originally Posted by BaddaBing Badda Boom

Don't worry I am sure it never happened. Kocur being knocked down? Perish the though - Impossible! - I mean, really, the unmitigated gall of someone to insinuate that a human being (in this case JK) is subject to the same foibles as us mortal men, simply preposterous! This is almost as rediculous as the ol days when people actually said that a Bruin lost a fight. Sleep well tonight - This is simply the well oiled figment of someone's imagination

ESTB hasn't seen it, I haven't seen it and I have never heard of it until 2, 5, 10 Game posted about it. It is generally my way to ask people to back up their claims, especially 2, 5, 10 because I have grown wary of what he says in this forum. If he could provide a season, a venue, the teams the jerseys the players were wearing and a detailed summary then I would begin to believe. But when I read....."Oh, Nylund dropped his ass and he was woozy afterwards" I have to call his ass out. He's done this before and he's doing it now.

As far as this Kocur thing goes I think YOU are the one that is the "Kocurnazi". You seem to lose it whenever his name is mentioned and I am not sure what that is..
I am not a Kocur fan. I told you this in a PM. I was somewhat disappointed in Kocur when he was a Ranger. However, I have seen many of his fights as a Red Wing......(close to all of them) and I can say that he hardly lost any in those days. He DEFINATELY lost his share and most of them have been listed. It's just that I have NEVER, EVER seen Nylund listed as one of Kocur's losses.....never. Anyone else besides 2,5,10 see or hear of this?

Once again, this thread is silly. All threads like this are silly. Why couldn't it simply be Gilles vs. Kocur? Or why not an "irate" Gilles vs. an "irate" Kocur? DO you not have confidence in Gilles in this match up? Why soup him up with "irate"???

Either way, it's apparent that some of the old timers here have a really protracted view of some of these 70's guys. Just look at what they say whenever one of these 70's guys gets matched up with fighters from other eras....Jack says he wins 10 out of 10. That's utterly absurd and he does this a lot. Sorry Jack, but you do. It's been this way forever with older people and younger people.....they wax poetic about the "olden days" and make claims how everything was better back when they were a kid. I say this and Jack is only like 3 or 4 years older than I am!

And Badda, your schtick about the "Kocurnazis" is played. It's really just me you are talking about. If you want to call me a nazi, I am a BULLSH1T nazi. I look to snuff out BULLSH1T in this forum, period. I don't generally like these fighters, I just like fights. SO I have no vested interest in making fighter A seem better than fighter B. It's stupid.

And finally,
2, 5, 10......once again. Prove it and describe a little further without embellishment--if that is possible. Name the teams, where the fight took place, the jersey numbers, where they dropped the gloves, the length of the fight, how it took place, the number of punches thrown, etc....
If you can't do that, then I won't believe it until I see it for myself. You can maybe make me a video of CURT Frasier's dusting Probert, Wendel Clark's TKO/KOs, and this......send me your magical tape so I can see this for myself.

[2,5,10GameMatch]

Originally Posted by ewen21

I too am unfamiliar with this fight, so I am not going to trust the statement. I'd have to see it for myself to know for sure.

I dont care who doesnt believe me, I saw it with my own eyes live!

Yo Ewen , you know it all the date was Nov, 23,1985, MLG, in Toronto at 1:37 of the third period, one punch thrown by Nylund at center ice and Kocur fell hard.

This game was shown last year on Leafs tv on "Leafs Classics", thats what jarred my memory about the fight.

In the mid 80's there wasnt many games that i missed at MLG, and I always went to see fights.

It was a televised game too but I'm not sure the camera caught the connection to Kocur's face but it caught him on the way to the box, looking like he just woke up. I have it on tape somewhere, if its not on a Kocur tape? then whoever made it was hiding it out of embarrasment, looking to preserve the "legend of Joey".

The fight was a carbon copy of Nylund vs Dirk Graham, who walked into a Nylund right and was 'starched', the only difference was that Kocur got up quicker than Graham.

Ewen, after reading your last post, I ask my self "how fukktarded can a guy be"? Everyone knows Probert was 'dusted' in his first fight with Fraser, it was a mauling.

I'm not here to bull**** anyone and I've never lied in this forum, I say it as I see it, always have always will, I have 20/20 vision too.

[ewen21]

It's interesting to note that the oldtimers....that being Jack, nighthawk and Badda all pick Gilles. Funny how this seems to always work out. Why? And how are they always so sure?