He got him when he was old - He got him when he was a rookie Bunk!

[mikebflorida]

Some very informative posts in this thread.

I think age matters but even more is the desire. Some guys just lose the fire after years of abuse to themselves and others, you can't just do it forever although BBBB makes the claim that Simon can and still is but conveniently makes excuses for the guy taking the middle of his career off because management wanted him to. What a crock. Sorry dude, he wasn't Tocchet or even close, he scored goals because guys stayed out of his way because he fought.

Randy McKay started thinking he was a player instead of a fighter and started getting his lunch handed to him on a regular basis.

The funniest part of this thread, as usual, is the Simon/Brown fights. Good, close fights by 2 excellent fighters, one in his prime and the other way past his prime and the "old guy" still brings the mail, ending up on top after Simon mysteriously falls down(he slipped on a banana peel)and Brownie is still throwing punches but I'd still give that fight a draw as both landed some good shots. BFD.

What's the point? That Simon deserves Brown's number 2 rank because he edged him in one fight?

Rick Tocchet fed Simon his lunch and Simon was just a rookie. I give Simon a break there because he was young and Tocchet was already very experienced. I don't think anyone is clamoring for Rick to be number 2 because of that, it's just silly so the same applies to Simon, he's not number 2 except in one person's obviously biased view. Was it the hair you liked?

By the way, I have Wilson at number 2 and Brown at number 3 all time. Based on skills alone, Simon is much further down the list but his willingness really drags him down.

Brown and Wilson were better fighters than Simon, they were much more passionate, they didn't stomp on random players with their skates, they didn't take whole seasons off and just collect a paycheck, it is what it is and not worth getting crazy about.

Probert was a great fighter, we all know that, but after a while, a long time doing it, giving every up and coming fighter the opportunity, he had simply lost the fire to do it anymore, it's so obvious. Some guys never have it. Dave Richter was an outstanding fighter, big, strong, mean, and a lefty and could easily have been in the top 3 for his career but he simply lacked the fire to be the best fighter or else he would have fought a hell of a lot more, he just disappeared.

I get the same feeling that Sandy McCarthy also lost the fire.

It's not necessarily age but guys just lose that spark to train regularly, eat right, no partying, no broads that goes with being a pro hockey player and if you lose that spark as a fighter, you'll take some beatings, we've seen it with hundreds of guys.

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

Some very informative posts in this thread.

I think age matters but even more is the desire. Some guys just lose the fire after years of abuse to themselves and others, you can't just do it forever although BBBB makes the claim that Simon can and still is but conveniently makes excuses for the guy taking the middle of his career off because management wanted him to. What a crock. Sorry dude, he wasn't Tocchet or even close, he scored goals because guys stayed out of his way because he fought.

Randy McKay started thinking he was a player instead of a fighter and started getting his lunch handed to him on a regular basis.

The funniest part of this thread, as usual, is the Simon/Brown fights. Good, close fights by 2 excellent fighters, one in his prime and the other way past his prime and the "old guy" still brings the mail, ending up on top after Simon mysteriously falls down(he slipped on a banana peel)and Brownie is still throwing punches but I'd still give that fight a draw as both landed some good shots. BFD.

What's the point? That Simon deserves Brown's number 2 rank because he edged him in one fight?

Rick Tocchet fed Simon his lunch and Simon was just a rookie. I give Simon a break there because he was young and Tocchet was already very experienced. I don't think anyone is clamoring for Rick to be number 2 because of that, it's just silly so the same applies to Simon, he's not number 2 except in one person's obviously biased view. Was it the hair you liked?

By the way, I have Wilson at number 2 and Brown at number 3 all time. Based on skills alone, Simon is much further down the list but his willingness really drags him down.

Brown and Wilson were better fighters than Simon, they were much more passionate, they didn't stomp on random players with their skates, they didn't take whole seasons off and just collect a paycheck, it is what it is and not worth getting crazy about.

Probert was a great fighter, we all know that, but after a while, a long time doing it, giving every up and coming fighter the opportunity, he had simply lost the fire to do it anymore, it's so obvious. Some guys never have it. Dave Richter was an outstanding fighter, big, strong, mean, and a lefty and could easily have been in the top 3 for his career but he simply lacked the fire to be the best fighter or else he would have fought a hell of a lot more, he just disappeared.

I get the same feeling that Sandy McCarthy also lost the fire.

It's not necessarily age but guys just lose that spark to train regularly, eat right, no partying, no broads that goes with being a pro hockey player and if you lose that spark as a fighter, you'll take some beatings, we've seen it with hundreds of guys.

I make <0 excuses for Simon. He is a big boy. He wasn't involved in underwater bubble blowing classes before he got his shot. He was overwhelmed/jacked by Tocchet, and no disrespect to RT - This thread is more relevant now than ever - What was Simon doing before he entered the NHL? No excuses. Now, did he learn from that? probably, did it ever happen to him in the minors, OHL, AHL - probably - what he did take away from that is that next time he will get the guy on his terms, simple, anybody can jack someone when it is unexpected. Square up face to face, tocchet would not have faired as well - No excuses.

[mikebflorida]

I have no idea what happened in the minors for Simon but I do know he never fought Tocchet again and had years and plenty of opportunities to do so but who knows?

Like I said, I give Simon a break for that fight the same way I'd give Wilson a break for getting edged by Fotiu as a rookie or giving Fotiu a break for losing to Patterson at the end of his career or Probie losing to Simon towards the end of his career but at the end of the day, it all factors in, it's just what perspective you look at it from.

I think the issue that some of us have with you is that you really boost up Simon on a regular basis and I get that, you're a big fan of the guy and that's fine but you have to use the same criteria when ranking other players and if you do it objectively, Simon is nowehere near the #2 spot you give him, he's not even in the top 20!

I try to be very objective when ranking these guys and yes, it's not hard to stray from the norm when it comes to "willingness" because it's subjective, the guy could have been injured or told not to fight, maybe his wife said she would not give him any poontang if he fought, who knows but when you look at it on paper, in black and white, Simon, Fotiu, Richter, and a few others in my top 50 just didn't fight very much and get penalized on their willingness to fight and thus penalized on their all time ranking. The numbers don't lie.

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

I have no idea what happened in the minors for Simon but I do know he never fought Tocchet again and had years and plenty of opportunities to do so but who knows?

Like I said, I give Simon a break for that fight the same way I'd give Wilson a break for getting edged by Fotiu as a rookie or giving Fotiu a break for losing to Patterson at the end of his career or Probie losing to Simon towards the end of his career but at the end of the day, it all factors in, it's just what perspective you look at it from.

I think the issue that some of us have with you is that you really boost up Simon on a regular basis and I get that, you're a big fan of the guy and that's fine but you have to use the same criteria when ranking other players and if you do it objectively, Simon is nowehere near the #2 spot you give him, he's not even in the top 20!

I try to be very objective when ranking these guys and yes, it's not hard to stray from the norm when it comes to "willingness" because it's subjective, the guy could have been injured or told not to fight, maybe his wife said she would not give him any poontang if he fought, who knows but when you look at it on paper, in black and white, Simon, Fotiu, Richter, and a few others in my top 50 just didn't fight very much and get penalized on their willingness to fight and thus penalized on their all time ranking. The numbers don't lie.

No, no! I'm dumb but not stupid. You can't bamboozle me by throwing up this canard, red herring about age/in-experience. This is your veiled back-door attempt at providing an alibi for a beaten and belegaured Wilson, sorry, was born at night, jut not last night.