Donald Brashear - The Career

[2,5,10GameMatch]

Hilarious thread!!!!


I'm not suprised anyone would have him as high as Giantsfan, just not me.

[Juha82]

Originally Posted by Rob666

People will diagree with me but this buy is easily top-10 of all time no dought. he is the best of his generation. I'd say possibly top-5 all time.

Hes Top5 without doubt, because only Wilson, Brown, Probert are better than him.
Twist and Brashear are as good as in my book, two different style but great outcomes by both man.
Its clear thing that he is Top5 all the time for pure great fightning skills, strenght and domination.
He has so many great wars with McSorley, Probert, Domi, Belak and other guys.
A bit weak start but he becomes pretty quickly great fighter.

[Juha82]

Originally Posted by full force five

I think both Gilles and Fotiu for that matter are guys with low FM's because of the fear factor. Gillies was a beast back in the 70's and 80's and no one wanted to mess with him. He enforced when it was needed. No wanted to mess with these guys especially Gillies. Also, you need to factor in that Gillies was an all-star player as well.

I would replace with Brashear maybe with Nystrom. I'm not a fan from what I've seen and what I remember. Great player, good fighter but he was also a bit of a pillow puncher.

I just can't place Brash in the top 10 all time because of antics that have been talked about. I have no problem top 20. He has had a long career as a goon. The last few years he just pi**ed me off too much with his fake glove dropping, turning his cheek, and big losses. No question he’s has been and will continue to be a controversial figure when it comes to goons.

Great player????? that must be a joke lol haha.
Brashear was only decent hockey player but great in fightning.
At one point his career Brashear was quite fast skater i have heared, he even won Saku Koivu in trainings in straight skating.

When Brash was a young boy as his father hitted him quite often so its very good thing that of him becomes a nice hockey player.
His father would should to goes punching a bag like boxers does it and not go punching his son! i feels sorry for Brashear's youngst.

[Juha82]

Originally Posted by GIANTSFAN

Brashear is easily top 3. Can't think of anyone besides Probert & Brown that have DOMINATED year after year & has beaten most of the top guys more than once.

Godard may have bloodied Brashear, but Brashear still won that fight.

Please,....the "running from McCarthy" was obviously Brash tryin' to get his tiedown undone, but most of the Brash haters see it as running. He's sh*tkicked McCarthy worse than anyone ever has so it's no contest.

hmm good point, Top3 interesting opinion.
His win/loss record is wonderful good really.

[srehm1]

Great listing of his fights and won-loss record.

I don't agree with some of the calls, most notably the last fight with Domi where he bailed and turtled. There is no way he can get even a draw for that pathetic display from me. I've long called that a loss and one of his worst showings. In the playoffs, to boot. It's a subjective thing as I can see someone factoring in that he was winning the fight, but that bailout cancelled that out completely.

GIANTSFAN - #2 all time is too high for me. I couldn't possibly have him ahead of Brown.

[OneilltheGiant]

Brash has been a quality fighter in the NHL for over a decade.. I have him top 5 all time no question about it..

[BENNETTWOLF]

Yes, i've posted a few times stumping for Brash in the top 10 or even higher. I've had him at #4 for over a year, partially by default as i can't really make as good of a case for anyone else. It's obviously in the eye of the beholder but i don't like Kocur, Twist,.............really anyone else in a logical way behind Probert/Brown/Wilson. I go back and forth with wilson and brown at the #2 slot. Brownie had so much more "body of work" to draw on while behn has such a solid case because of his W-L-D percentage and the fact all of his losses were so competitive..........no slipups (that's part of why i'm prone to pick on kocur). Behn also compiled a very good card for his era.

Larry Playfair, who i like a great deal, still had a card that pales in comparison to brashear. It's pretty good for a guy who began in the 70's but still........ Bob Nystrom, who i love, boasts very few HUGE wins over fellow top 50 type guys before you get into the range of the Korn's, Mcgill's and the like.

Mcsorley and McCarthy were both clearly outdone by brashear head to head. Semenko has a very impressive resume but, again, his card is not in the same realm.

The guys i lump together in the "long term" category like Domi, Berube, Mckenzie, T. Hunter, Wells, Nilan, Langdon or Baumgartner all have solid cases for the top 25, possibly (Jimmy mac or Domi) quite near the top 10 but none were ever "champs" and their W-L-D percentage pales in comparison to brash while his card is competitive in comparison. At least closer than the gaps between those guys and the "older legends" from the 70's-early 80's.

It leaves Twist as a "wild card" along with BGL. I'm giving brash the edge on BGL both head to head and for his card which began slightly before. If twist only had a year or two more to bolster his case, it might be different. It's funny, i like him better as a nordique than the caricature he became later on. Total personal bias on my part. I do respect TNT and never saw a more feared guy. I also liked his approach early on as a ultra game guy who liked to stand back and fire huge rights while not minding eating a few. I shouldn't discount just how good he was in St. Louis...............especially if brash has his discounters for "style points" as well.

Clark Gillies? I'm actually starting to like clarkie quite a bit again but only as a HM or inclusion into the lower end. I suspect a few people might be swinging that way after we piled onto gillies who recieved so much early support on lists. The hobby has exploded with so much video to draw on now.

Still waiting on those crucial playfair fights that form a lot of the backbone for his support. The TKO of Semenko (plus the edge loss in a rematch), three fights with "flash in the pan" Jimmy Mann, three vs John Wensink.........one vs Bennett Wolf and so on.

To each their own, and i hate shooting down other peoples cases for a fighter but brashear has enough selling points from pretty much every angle that i'm comfortable with him at #4. His reign at the top (or in the conversation) began in 96-97 and continued up until his very end with no real drop off. Ironically, he may have gained some support for opening up more in washington and being mortal. He had some fun sh-tkickings (Cote TKO, Downey, Barch, Neil), some good T2T bouts (Shelley, S thornton x2), showed some courage (peters, BGL) and was human. He also added a bit to his case by simply dominating Colton Orr...........add this to peat, Domi, mcsorley et al, and it makes a very valid structure for the "pro" side of the ledger.

Brash is also a later era "long termer" whose card is bolstered by giving chances to the 10-20 guys whose names do matter in the 2000's. From peat to Reed Low, Godard, Belak (who did very, very well), Boogy, McGrattan, Orr and so forth. From the proberts to the boogaards, not a bad body of work considering how well he fared.

Chris Simon? card

John Kordic? card with only a lesser degree of top notch wins over those peers looking at the top 30 (or 50)

I'd love to see Stan Jonathan kick the crap out of the big bully (it's actually not impossible, given Dody Wood's win) but it goes back to a 5-6 year run vs one of 15+ years.

Joe Kocur has many fans enamored with his power. I vacilitate between downing JK behind McCarthy and mckenzie (mcsorley as well) because his card wasn't phenomenal for his era and he lost more than a handful of fights to guys he had no business losing to. From Herb Raglan to Dave Roche......Brian Curran. Don't get me wrong, he has a strong case for the top 10 bolstered by nice showings vs Jay Miller (3-0) and other great fighters. I just don't like his argument as much as i prefer brashear's. Like virtually all of our heroes, including brash, they do have the odd upset and/or dramatic TKO loss.

Enough for now.

[Juha82]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

Yes, i've posted a few times stumping for Brash in the top 10 or even higher. I've had him at #4 for over a year, partially by default as i can't really make as good of a case for anyone else. It's obviously in the eye of the beholder but i don't like Kocur, Twist,.............really anyone else in a logical way behind Probert/Brown/Wilson. I go back and forth with wilson and brown at the #2 slot. Brownie had so much more "body of work" to draw on while behn has such a solid case because of his W-L-D percentage and the fact all of his losses were so competitive..........no slipups (that's part of why i'm prone to pick on kocur). Behn also compiled a very good card for his era.

Larry Playfair, who i like a great deal, still had a card that pales in comparison to brashear. It's pretty good for a guy who began in the 70's but still........ Bob Nystrom, who i love, boasts very few HUGE wins over fellow top 50 type guys before you get into the range of the Korn's, Mcgill's and the like.

Mcsorley and McCarthy were both clearly outdone by brashear head to head. Semenko has a very impressive resume but, again, his card is not in the same realm.

The guys i lump together in the "long term" category like Domi, Berube, Mckenzie, T. Hunter, Wells, Nilan, Langdon or Baumgartner all have solid cases for the top 25, possibly (Jimmy mac or Domi) quite near the top 10 but none were ever "champs" and their W-L-D percentage pales in comparison to brash while his card is competitive in comparison. At least closer than the gaps between those guys and the "older legends" from the 70's-early 80's.

It leaves Twist as a "wild card" along with BGL. I'm giving brash the edge on BGL both head to head and for his card which began slightly before. If twist only had a year or two more to bolster his case, it might be different. It's funny, i like him better as a nordique than the caricature he became later on. Total personal bias on my part. I do respect TNT and never saw a more feared guy. I also liked his approach early on as a ultra game guy who liked to stand back and fire huge rights while not minding eating a few. I shouldn't discount just how good he was in St. Louis...............especially if brash has his discounters for "style points" as well.

Clark Gillies? I'm actually starting to like clarkie quite a bit again but only as a HM or inclusion into the lower end. I suspect a few people might be swinging that way after we piled onto gillies who recieved so much early support on lists. The hobby has exploded with so much video to draw on now.

Still waiting on those crucial playfair fights that form a lot of the backbone for his support. The TKO of Semenko (plus the edge loss in a rematch), three fights with "flash in the pan" Jimmy Mann, three vs John Wensink.........one vs Bennett Wolf and so on.

To each their own, and i hate shooting down other peoples cases for a fighter but brashear has enough selling points from pretty much every angle that i'm comfortable with him at #4. His reign at the top (or in the conversation) began in 96-97 and continued up until his very end with no real drop off. Ironically, he may have gained some support for opening up more in washington and being mortal. He had some fun sh-tkickings (Cote TKO, Downey, Barch, Neil), some good T2T bouts (Shelley, S thornton x2), showed some courage (peters, BGL) and was human. He also added a bit to his case by simply dominating Colton Orr...........add this to peat, Domi, mcsorley et al, and it makes a very valid structure for the "pro" side of the ledger.

Brash is also a later era "long termer" whose card is bolstered by giving chances to the 10-20 guys whose names do matter in the 2000's. From peat to Reed Low, Godard, Belak (who did very, very well), Boogy, McGrattan, Orr and so forth. From the proberts to the boogaards, not a bad body of work considering how well he fared.

Chris Simon? card

John Kordic? card with only a lesser degree of top notch wins over those peers looking at the top 30 (or 50)

I'd love to see Stan Jonathan kick the crap out of the big bully (it's actually not impossible, given Dody Wood's win) but it goes back to a 5-6 year run vs one of 15+ years.

Joe Kocur has many fans enamored with his power. I vacilitate between downing JK behind McCarthy and mckenzie (mcsorley as well) because his card wasn't phenomenal for his era and he lost more than a handful of fights to guys he had no business losing to. From Herb Raglan to Dave Roche......Brian Curran. Don't get me wrong, he has a strong case for the top 10 bolstered by nice showings vs Jay Miller (3-0) and other great fighters. I just don't like his argument as much as i prefer brashear's. Like virtually all of our heroes, including brash, they do have the odd upset and/or dramatic TKO loss.

Enough for now.

1.Probert
2.Brown
3.Wilson
4.Brashear
5.Twist(was best all the time in his prime)
6.Kocur
7.Laraque
8.McSorley
9.Playfair
10.McCarthy
11.McKenzie
12.Domi
13.Nystrom
14.Fotiu
15.Gillies
16.Simon
17.Grimson
18.J.Kordic
19.Hunter
20.Berube
21.Laus
22.Baumgartner
23.Clark
24.Nilan
25.Langdon
26.Miller

did i forgot someone??

If someone guy dont rank Brashear to Top5 or Top10 as he dont understand hockey fighters rank at all.
Also Twist have to be there, in Top5-10 easily and a guy like Laraque too.

[BENNETTWOLF]

Originally Posted by Juha82

1.Probert
2.Brown
3.Wilson
4.Brashear
5.Twist(was best all the time in his prime)
6.Kocur
7.Laraque
8.McSorley
9.Playfair
10.McCarthy
11.McKenzie
12.Domi
13.Nystrom
14.Fotiu
15.Gillies
16.Simon
17.Grimson
18.J.Kordic
19.Hunter
20.Berube
21.Laus
22.Baumgartner
23.Clark
24.Nilan
25.Langdon
26.Miller

did i forgot someone??

If someone guy dont rank Brashear to Top5 or Top10 as he dont understand hockey fighters rank at all.
Also Twist have to be there, in Top5-10 easily and a guy like Laraque too.

Really good list there Juha my man. I can't think of many you missed. I like Jay Wells, Curt Fraser, Stan Jonathan and Glen Cochrane in that 21-30 range and i don't include fotiu anymore but it's a very, very solid list. Actually, to be precise, i include Jay Wells at #19 as of now.

Your top 12 is exceptionally close to mine. I'm not sure if i noticed Dave Semenko's name? I like him quite a bit in that argument for the last slot in the top 10 to the 13-14 range. His W-L-D is simply top notch and features a lot of destruction (KO, TKO, one sided thumpings) and he had a claim to a peice of the title circa 79-85 with playfair and wilson. The WBA/WBC/IBF When or if you add his rep from the WHA, which was well covered by DYG, it makes a very strong case for sammy

My top 10 changes so often. Is Bob Nystrom still in it? If so, how come not semenko (champ, better resume). Your top 12 is quite similar to mine. I especially like jim mckenzie so high

My loose top 10 candidates:

Top 4 are set
Mcsorley
Kocur
Twist
Playfair
Mckenzie
Nystrom
Semenko
McCarthy
BGL???????????

[Juha82]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

Really good list there Juha my man. I can't think of many you missed. I like Jay Wells, Curt Fraser, Stan Jonathan and Glen Cochrane in that 21-30 range and i don't include fotiu anymore but it's a very, very solid list. Actually, to be precise, i include Jay Wells at #19 as of now.

Your top 12 is exceptionally close to mine. I'm not sure if i noticed Dave Semenko's name? I like him quite a bit in that argument for the last slot in the top 10 to the 13-14 range. His W-L-D is simply top notch and features a lot of destruction (KO, TKO, one sided thumpings) and he had a claim to a peice of the title circa 79-85 with playfair and wilson. The WBA/WBC/IBF When or if you add his rep from the WHA, which was well covered by DYG, it makes a very strong case for sammy

My top 10 changes so often. Is Bob Nystrom still in it? If so, how come not semenko (champ, better resume). Your top 12 is quite similar to mine. I especially like jim mckenzie so high

My loose top 10 candidates:

Top 4 are set
Mcsorley
Kocur
Twist
Playfair
Mckenzie
Nystrom
Semenko
McCarthy
BGL???????????

Semenko was more a hugger mostly and one-dimensional fighter.
I have checked his all fights from DYG-site, no big impression although hes a legend who helped a lot of Gretzkys and Kurris playing.
Jonathan was very tough for his size like a guy T.Domi.

[BENNETTWOLF]

Originally Posted by Juha82

Semenko was more a hugger mostly and one-dimensional fighter.
I have checked his all fights from DYG-site, no big impression although hes a legend who helped a lot of Gretzkys and Kurris playing.
Jonathan was very tough for his size like a guy T.Domi.

Fair enough

[Churla22]

Easy Top 5 all-time for me.

[Playfair 27]

Originally Posted by BENNETTWOLF

Yes, i've posted a few times stumping for Brash in the top 10 or even higher. I've had him at #4 for over a year, partially by default as i can't really make as good of a case for anyone else. It's obviously in the eye of the beholder but i don't like Kocur, Twist,.............really anyone else in a logical way behind Probert/Brown/Wilson. I go back and forth with wilson and brown at the #2 slot. Brownie had so much more "body of work" to draw on while behn has such a solid case because of his W-L-D percentage and the fact all of his losses were so competitive..........no slipups (that's part of why i'm prone to pick on kocur). Behn also compiled a very good card for his era.

Larry Playfair, who i like a great deal, still had a card that pales in comparison to brashear. It's pretty good for a guy who began in the 70's but still........ Bob Nystrom, who i love, boasts very few HUGE wins over fellow top 50 type guys before you get into the range of the Korn's, Mcgill's and the like.

Mcsorley and McCarthy were both clearly outdone by brashear head to head. Semenko has a very impressive resume but, again, his card is not in the same realm.

The guys i lump together in the "long term" category like Domi, Berube, Mckenzie, T. Hunter, Wells, Nilan, Langdon or Baumgartner all have solid cases for the top 25, possibly (Jimmy mac or Domi) quite near the top 10 but none were ever "champs" and their W-L-D percentage pales in comparison to brash while his card is competitive in comparison. At least closer than the gaps between those guys and the "older legends" from the 70's-early 80's.

It leaves Twist as a "wild card" along with BGL. I'm giving brash the edge on BGL both head to head and for his card which began slightly before. If twist only had a year or two more to bolster his case, it might be different. It's funny, i like him better as a nordique than the caricature he became later on. Total personal bias on my part. I do respect TNT and never saw a more feared guy. I also liked his approach early on as a ultra game guy who liked to stand back and fire huge rights while not minding eating a few. I shouldn't discount just how good he was in St. Louis...............especially if brash has his discounters for "style points" as well.

Clark Gillies? I'm actually starting to like clarkie quite a bit again but only as a HM or inclusion into the lower end. I suspect a few people might be swinging that way after we piled onto gillies who recieved so much early support on lists. The hobby has exploded with so much video to draw on now.

Still waiting on those crucial playfair fights that form a lot of the backbone for his support. The TKO of Semenko (plus the edge loss in a rematch), three fights with "flash in the pan" Jimmy Mann, three vs John Wensink.........one vs Bennett Wolf and so on.

To each their own, and i hate shooting down other peoples cases for a fighter but brashear has enough selling points from pretty much every angle that i'm comfortable with him at #4. His reign at the top (or in the conversation) began in 96-97 and continued up until his very end with no real drop off. Ironically, he may have gained some support for opening up more in washington and being mortal. He had some fun sh-tkickings (Cote TKO, Downey, Barch, Neil), some good T2T bouts (Shelley, S thornton x2), showed some courage (peters, BGL) and was human. He also added a bit to his case by simply dominating Colton Orr...........add this to peat, Domi, mcsorley et al, and it makes a very valid structure for the "pro" side of the ledger.

Brash is also a later era "long termer" whose card is bolstered by giving chances to the 10-20 guys whose names do matter in the 2000's. From peat to Reed Low, Godard, Belak (who did very, very well), Boogy, McGrattan, Orr and so forth. From the proberts to the boogaards, not a bad body of work considering how well he fared.

Chris Simon? card

John Kordic? card with only a lesser degree of top notch wins over those peers looking at the top 30 (or 50)

I'd love to see Stan Jonathan kick the crap out of the big bully (it's actually not impossible, given Dody Wood's win) but it goes back to a 5-6 year run vs one of 15+ years.

Joe Kocur has many fans enamored with his power. I vacilitate between downing JK behind McCarthy and mckenzie (mcsorley as well) because his card wasn't phenomenal for his era and he lost more than a handful of fights to guys he had no business losing to. From Herb Raglan to Dave Roche......Brian Curran. Don't get me wrong, he has a strong case for the top 10 bolstered by nice showings vs Jay Miller (3-0) and other great fighters. I just don't like his argument as much as i prefer brashear's. Like virtually all of our heroes, including brash, they do have the odd upset and/or dramatic TKO loss.

Enough for now.

Great post Bennett, very well thought out & compelling case for Brash at # 4 on your list. One important point in DB's arsenal is his longevity : only Bob Probert has an equal or greater status over a long period of time.
I'm glad this 2006 thread got bumped because up until recently I myself was one of the Brashear haters who felt he was vastly overrated ( without studying his card very closely ).
Forgetting one's like/ dislike for the man personally, even the most unrepentant haters have to be very impressed with Brashears' card and W-L record against the cream of the crop of NHL HW's over what.. 15 or 16 years ??
I think the only big name not on his card is Tony Twist, although I might be mistaken..

[BENNETTWOLF]

Off the top of my head, i can't easily recall an NHL fight vs Chris Simon either.

P.S. I checked the list at the beginning of the thread. It did list a Brashear-Simon fight from 04 but i didn't notice Twist at any time, regular or post season.

BTW, As much as i pick on Joe Kocur, it would be a fair argument on his side to state that he never lost to either Brashear or Probert.

Funny how circular and subjective the debates can be. All of the greats have shining examples of their prowess including fellow guys they did well against, while virtually all of them have guys of (somewhat) lesser standing that they struggled with.

Another interesting angle is the fact that certain legends played together like Probert-Kocur or Gillies-Nystrom. Sometimes this leads to issues with fightcards (John Kordic never fought Dave Brown while Nilan did in MTL), and even arguments on which one was better or more feared. Many people think that players preferred taking on probert vs chancing destruction at kocur's hands. Others believe that nystrom was the best of his era despite the fact his teammate had the monster reputation and "fear factor"

At least no one ever had to choose between Behn Wilson and Dave Brown. "Yikes"

[Bench Clearer]

I still have Brashear as number one. Yes, even ahead of Probert. And I'm sticking to my guns there.

The fact is that no one had as much consistency over such a long period of time. How many fights did he lose from the time he started with the Canucks to his last year with Washington? 15 at the most? Who else can say that? Nobody. Case closed.

His ownership of such overrated pieces of swill as McSorely, McCarthy, Ray, and Domi only further proves his case, and there were very few fighters in general that ever gave him trouble. There were some guys he should've owned and didn't (Dale Purinton immediately jumps to mind, for some reason Purinton was able to keep up with him for the most part). He also split an eight fight series with Probert, although it would have been interesting to see what. He ended up winning the series with BGL because Laraque was too damn nice for his own good. And even though Belak KO'd him Brash still easily won their series as well, which is something a lot of people conveniently forget.

Now, don't mistake me for a Brashear fanboy. I have never hated a fighter as much as him, and I can't recall ever rooting for him in a fight for his whole career. I can't decide who I hate more, his fans or him. Nevertheless, it is blasphemous to me to rank any fighter ahead of Brash.