Disengaged Twist? - Kocur vs. Twist

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by SimonKO

ok you're joking.

Yeah! and the joke is on you.

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by winger

I haven't posted on this site too much, and thought I was debating Kocur with you, but you say enough already. He's only knocked down 3 guys in his career anyway. Most stories I've read from former and current players seemed to have alot of respect for his punching power, but you must know better, winning that hardest punching contest and all.

Your response is what I expected though. You don't say who had more KO's or TKO's or who you felt had a better punch. You just continue to rip Kocur.

You put some pretty good players in his class though, that's something. It's too bad your dislike for Kocur makes your opinion of him suspect and definitely jaded.



It was You that started this thread, wasn't it?

Look! I have an equal amt of respect and admiration for all the fighters and yes, Joe Kocur included. I've said it many times before. What I do not like is an incessant overstating of the facts on this site re: JK - Hardest punch? Sure No Problem - Props to JK - But the lore and the hype surrounding his KDs and KOs is per capita not very repersentative of all his fights...How many of these dreaded KOs and KDs out of his hundreds of fights did occur, please, by all means, tell me! What part of this makes me "hate" the guy? Joe Kocur has as much invested into making sure you are represented fairly as he does you representing him = < 0

[SimonKO]

Originally Posted by BaddaBing Badda Boom

Look! I have an equal amt of respect and admiration for all the fighters and yes, Joe Kocur included. I've said it many times before. What I do not like is an incessant overstating of the facts on this site re: JK - Hardest punch? Sure No Problem - Props to JK - But the lore and the hype surrounding his KDs and KOs is per capita not very repersentative of all his fights...How many of these dreaded KOs and KDs out of his hundreds of fights did occur, please, by all means, tell me! What part of this makes me "hate" the guy? Joe Kocur has as much invested into making sure you are represented fairly as he does you representing him = < 0

how many of those fight did he win... and how many of those fights did people just hang on? everyone is going to take a loss and a bad one at that...

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by 2,5,10GameMatch

I think the roided version of Twist demolishes Kocur (the Ranger version)the same way he tossed Bob Probert around like a sack of shiat in the mid 90's,you could tell Probert just would never be able to handle that style at that point in his career, Twist made him look silly.. too big, too strong for just about anyone then.....


I honestly always thought Kocur was overrated but stuck him in my top 10 mainly to avoid the rath of his followers, here's a guy who had trouble in multi fight showdowns with Bob McGill and Todd Gill, now I'm not taking a thing away from either of them but they really werent heavies and I tell you I wouldnt want to have seen what Twist would have done to either of them (two of my fav's), McGill beat Kocur twice out of what 5?? and Gill always hung tough with Joey......Twist and his manic, bull like style would win the day here, no one could really ever tie up that right, how the hell do you control a 21 inch arm, with a smaller, weaker arm?? It never happened cuz the damn thing was too busy punching like a piston ready to pop.

Twist vs 80's Joey - 5-3-2
Twist vs 90's Joey - 6-2-2.

so, the Twist version that tried to tie up Kocur was not the manical roided version?

[I like Boobs]

Originally Posted by BaddaBing Badda Boom

Look! I have an equal amt of respect and admiration for all the fighters and yes, Joe Kocur included. I've said it many times before. What I do not like is an incessant overstating of the facts on this site re: JK - Hardest punch? Sure No Problem - Props to JK - But the lore and the hype surrounding his KDs and KOs is per capita not very repersentative of all his fights...How many of these dreaded KOs and KDs out of his hundreds of fights did occur, please, by all means, tell me! What part of this makes me "hate" the guy? Joe Kocur has as much invested into making sure you are represented fairly as he does you representing him = < 0

For a guy who "hates the incessant over stating of facts" you sure seem to post the same Brown/Simon clip and harp about the same things, year after year.

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by I like Boobs

For a guy who "hates the incessant over stating of facts" you sure seem to post the same Brown/Simon clip and harp about the same things, year after year.

I think it is a fair statement to say that the number of KOs/KDs are as a percentage of GDP or total fights is over stated. I think we established that Ray had a higher percentile of KOs/KDs/TKOs per total fights. whatever...

As far as this thread. We have seen Kocur pummelling Twist with those rib shots and Twist was seemingly hanging on for whatever reason......Is that the same Twist that tore up the league or is that some sort of deflated, hurt, or scared Twist, one, or a version, that was very uncharachteristic of himself?

In other words, had these two continued over the years in a bitter feud, is that the best we could expect from Twist vs JK ???

[mikebflorida]

Originally Posted by BaddaBing Badda Boom

I think it is a fair statement to say that the number of KOs/KDs are as a percentage of GDP or total fights is over stated. I think we established that Ray had a higher percentile of KOs/KDs/TKOs per total fights. whatever...

As far as this thread. We have seen Kocur pummelling Twist with those rib shots and Twist was seemingly hanging on for whatever reason......Is that the same Twist that tore up the league or is that some sort of deflated, hurt, or scared Twist, one, or a version, that was very uncharachteristic of himself?

In other words, had these two continued over the years in a bitter feud, is that the best we could expect from Twist vs JK ???

They are both Western Canadian boys and may have known each other or each other's families?

I think everyone likes Joey, even Probert who when they actually fought, didn't seem real interested. That may have something to do with Twist not opening up, it may have been pure respect, you never know what goes through a guy's mind when he fights but I think it's safe to say that neither was afraid of the other but they both had respect for the other.

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

They are both Western Canadian boys and may have known each other or each other's families?

I think everyone likes Joey, even Probert who when they actually fought, didn't seem real interested. That may have something to do with Twist not opening up, it may have been pure respect, you never know what goes through a guy's mind when he fights but I think it's safe to say that neither was afraid of the other but they both had respect for the other.

Agree Probie did seem a bit ambivalent...As far as Twist and Kocur I do not believe that they had family ties....but who knows? This is one of those un-solved mysteries

[LuigiStone]

Twist was easily the most feared fighter around 95-98. Yes, there were plenty of awesome fighters at the time (McCarthy, Grimson, McKenzie, Kordic, Langdon, Laus etc.) but the Twister was the only one that people were absolutely afraid to fight.

No one really had an answer to his crazy roided style. Only someone like Langdon with his very technical defensive style could hang with him but even he couldn't really do anything to Twist. Then you had a few crazy guys like Ewen and Leroux who would eventually catch Twist with a punch. But regular top fighters like Probert, Kordic and Laus didn't really know what to do with Twist.

I remember whenever Twist came to town, which was rarely, I was really afraid for my man Dan Kordic. Twist could really hurt guys.

But I think Twist would have eventually fallen from the top with the influx of Super HWs. He would have been pretty small compared to guys like Boogaard. And Worrell already showed that.

That said, who ever connects first between Kocur and Twist, wins. 5-5-0.

[Dark Light]

These two probably could of knocked each other out at the same time. That would of been a sight to see.

[TwisterTime]

Always cracks me up about people belittling Twist for roids when Probert was all jacked up on coke as many others were also in those days..I dont see anyone taking away from Proberts rep like they do Twists...Its hypocrisy at its best!!

[mikebflorida]

Originally Posted by TwisterTime

Always cracks me up about people belittling Twist for roids when Probert was all jacked up on coke as many others were also in those days..I dont see anyone taking away from Proberts rep like they do Twists...Its hypocrisy at its best!!

Please allow me to retort......


Many people DO try to take away from Probert for doing coke but there are a couple of things everyone should know....

1) In his book, Probert admitted he did coke one time before a game and said he didn't like it, didn't like the way it made him feel so he never did it again.

2) If you assume this was a lie and he was all "jacked up on coke" for his first 4 or 5 seasons when he was the undisputed champ, it's a totally irrelevant point as cocaine is not a performance enhancing drug at all. It doesn't make you stronger, bigger, or faster. What it does do is make you talk alot, grind your teeth, and you can't bust a nut if you do too much of it. It elevates the heart rate to a dangerous level that if combined with strenuous excercise, could lead to heart failure.

That's it. People who disparage Probert for cocaine use are speaking out of ignorance. I am speaking from experience. it does not, in any way, give someone an advantage in a fight. You could argue that doing a lot of it will numb you to pain and that might be true to a point but I found that my senses are not that much different than when not on it. There are better drugs if you want to not feel any pain.

Tony Twist used steroids to get bigger, faster, and stronger and that he did, he ballooned to 240 pounds of solid muscle and the rage that goes along with it to make him one of the meanest fighters of all time and he was already decent but the difference in Quebec Tony and 2nd run in St Louis Tony is night and day. He became a monster because he was juicing, it was totally obvious.

With that being said, it's hard to knock a guy for doing it because others were doing it too, same as in football and baseball and other sports, if you could get away with it, why not do it?

I'm not going to put an asterisk on Tony's career for it, he was a fighter who played a little hockey, it certainly didn't improve his game. LOL But he improved as a fighter 10 fold because he would just overwhelm his opponents in a blind rage and down they went. How do we disregard what he did in the fight game knowing he did steroids? What about others suspected of it like Laraque, Brashear, and many others? It's not really fair because we're talking about fighting, not hitting home runs or having a lower ERA and I definitely think the records set in baseball by the juicers should be stricken from the record books, their stats wiped out, and no hall of fame, it's not fair to those that played before them without using PED's and losing their all time place on the hit, home run, or wins list, it was a different era and maybe should have its own record book perhaps? Hard to say but the voters spoke volumes recently when no one was elected to the HOF in baseball.

There is no danger of that for Tony Twist, he will simply be a legendary tough guy who pretty much everyone admired and that's fine. Same with Probert.

[TwisterTime]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

Please allow me to retort......


Many people DO try to take away from Probert for doing coke but there are a couple of things everyone should know....

1) In his book, Probert admitted he did coke one time before a game and said he didn't like it, didn't like the way it made him feel so he never did it again.

2) If you assume this was a lie and he was all "jacked up on coke" for his first 4 or 5 seasons when he was the undisputed champ, it's a totally irrelevant point as cocaine is not a performance enhancing drug at all. It doesn't make you stronger, bigger, or faster. What it does do is make you talk alot, grind your teeth, and you can't bust a nut if you do too much of it. It elevates the heart rate to a dangerous level that if combined with strenuous excercise, could lead to heart failure.

That's it. People who disparage Probert for cocaine use are speaking out of ignorance. I am speaking from experience. it does not, in any way, give someone an advantage in a fight. You could argue that doing a lot of it will numb you to pain and that might be true to a point but I found that my senses are not that much different than when not on it. There are better drugs if you want to not feel any pain.

Tony Twist used steroids to get bigger, faster, and stronger and that he did, he ballooned to 240 pounds of solid muscle and the rage that goes along with it to make him one of the meanest fighters of all time and he was already decent but the difference in Quebec Tony and 2nd run in St Louis Tony is night and day. He became a monster because he was juicing, it was totally obvious.

With that being said, it's hard to knock a guy for doing it because others were doing it too, same as in football and baseball and other sports, if you could get away with it, why not do it?

I'm not going to put an asterisk on Tony's career for it, he was a fighter who played a little hockey, it certainly didn't improve his game. LOL But he improved as a fighter 10 fold because he would just overwhelm his opponents in a blind rage and down they went. How do we disregard what he did in the fight game knowing he did steroids? What about others suspected of it like Laraque, Brashear, and many others? It's not really fair because we're talking about fighting, not hitting home runs or having a lower ERA and I definitely think the records set in baseball by the juicers should be stricken from the record books, their stats wiped out, and no hall of fame, it's not fair to those that played before them without using PED's and losing their all time place on the hit, home run, or wins list, it was a different era and maybe should have its own record book perhaps? Hard to say but the voters spoke volumes recently when no one was elected to the HOF in baseball.

There is no danger of that for Tony Twist, he will simply be a legendary tough guy who pretty much everyone admired and that's fine. Same with Probert.

Your retort noted however its never been proven or admitted he did roids..BTW, Crabby Bills rocks Mike...