Is Brashear #1 all-time?

[cookie monster]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

Really??

That's pretty low.

I guess I could say that Brashear's rage came from steroids? And his stregth and speed? He sure did improve quite quickly after running away from people and losing badly his first few years. Kind of fishy but that's how Twist became champ right and apparently we all accept that?

Cocaine doesn't give you a competitive advantage, it will give you a nice wake up call, the same thing you can get from about a dozen cups of coffee but much faster.

Steroids give you a big advantage and Probie was fighting a lot of guys suspected of juicing and still doing well at an advanced age and he was still kicking butt after he got clean so that's just horse $hit.

I don't even know where to start.

#1 Probert was arrested for and admitted to abusing cocaine. Brashear was never arrested for, never admitted to abusing steroid or even failed a drug test, so that anology is a massive cop out.

#2 If they were all on steroids as you claim, how do you know Probert wasn't too? I mean he was a drug abuser, yet you just assume he was clean, but others weren't?

#3 Ask Lawrence Taylor if cocaine helps you.

#4 Probert was half the guy in Chicago he was in Detroit.

#5 Donald Brashear is the best tough guy ever.

[srehm1]

Originally Posted by cookie monster

And Brashear did it without cocaine. Probert was a mediocre fight after he quit cocaine as Ken "glass jaw" Belangers beating proved.

Brashears anger came from a very dark place. Proberts came from straw.

In Probert's book, he stated that he tried cocaine once before a game and he didn't like it, felt out of it and had a paraniod feeling. He said he never did that again.

I know people like to tie in the fact that probert was a great fighter who used cocaine like it was some sort of performance enhancer. I think that's a tough sell. If anyone thinks he was snorting lines in between shifts... they are 100% incorrect.

I actually thought drinking is what gave probie a sort of nasty edge. Whe he stopped drinking, he wasn't as mean or edgey. At least to me.

I honestly think Brashear was using HGH but I obviously have no proof and it's just specualtion on my part. There are a few fighters who I thought were using PED's during his era.

[cookie monster]

Originally Posted by srehm1

In Probert's book, he stated that he tried cocaine once before a game and he didn't like it, felt out of it and had a paraniod feeling. He said he never did that again.

Was he with Bill Clinton?

The guy who was busted with smuggling a half an ounce in his underwear said he only did it once before games and you believe him?

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by cookie monster

I don't even know where to start.

#1 Probert was arrested for and admitted to abusing cocaine. Brashear was never arrested for, never admitted to abusing steroid or even failed a drug test, so that anology is a massive cop out.

#2 If they were all on steroids as you claim, how do you know Probert wasn't too? I mean he was a drug abuser, yet you just assume he was clean, but others weren't?

#3 Ask Lawrence Taylor if cocaine helps you.

#4 Probert was half the guy in Chicago he was in Detroit.

#5 Donald Brashear is the best tough guy ever.

If you are high on cocaine during the fight then yes, it will help you. If you go out and party after the game I don't see how that will help you. From my experience it would do nothing but hurt you unless you are high during the game.

#4 - Not quite. And for you to think this is true, and then to go ahead and state that Brashear is the best tough guy ever, just shows how off you are. If Probert was half the guy he was in Detroit then how could it be possible that he managed to split the series with Brashear, the toughest guy ever, while he played in Chicago? Imagine what the full Probert would do if that was only half of him.

He was not the same player with Chicago but he was still pretty damn good. He had some unexplainable losses for sure but he found time to beat fighters that include Grimson, Parker, Cairns, Domi, Belak, and Brashear. That is some top of the line competition and a lot of them were in their prime while Probert was past his. If that was half the man, then a full Probert should easily be champ in your mind.

#5 Brashear had a great career and I am starting to like him more than Dave Brown to be honest. If I had to rank the top four right now it would be Probert, Wilson, Brashear, Brown, but I still have some guys to look at.

But Brashear had some negatives that cannot be ignored. If courage and heart don't come in to play then all you are doing is crowning a paper champion. On more than a few occasions Brashear is known to have dove to the ice when he found himself in a situation in a fight when he felt he was in a bad position. The clear bails put him on a different planet than Probert. I still have him at 3 for now because he also had some fights where he was in trouble but fought back, but in the end you cannot have the toughest guy ever diving to the ice like he spotted a gold doubloon in the middle of the fight.

#6 If you were going to mention Probert in Chicago, it would be fair to mention Brashear in Montreal. Brashear came into the league like a lamb, and Probert came in like a lion. Of course Probert's style of street fighting will have some effect as his career goes on, but that is fine because I don't think anybody wants a paper champ.

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by cookie monster

Was he with Bill Clinton?

The guy who was busted with smuggling a half an ounce in his underwear said he only did it once before games and you believe him?

Well he didn't have a heart attack on the ice so yes, I believe him. Why should we believe you anyway?

[srehm1]

Originally Posted by cookie monster

Was he with Bill Clinton?

The guy who was busted with smuggling a half an ounce in his underwear said he only did it once before games and you believe him?

In his book he was very up front and forthcoming about his cocaine use and drinking. Have you read it? He talked about every other time he did it-why should I not believe him? What else do we have to go on? Were you with him?

[srehm1]

Originally Posted by pesadillamal

but in the end you cannot have the toughest guy ever diving to the ice like he spotted a gold doubloon in the middle of the fight.

that was fukkin' hilarious!

[cookie monster]

Originally Posted by pesadillamal

Well he didn't have a heart attack on the ice so yes, I believe him. Why should we believe you anyway?

Who's asking you to believe anything?

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by cookie monster

Who's asking you to believe anything?

The person who wrote that Probert's anger came from a straw. And the person who said that Probert cannot be trusted because he tried to smuggle drugs.

If your point is that none of us really know whether he did it during a game then there is no reason to bring it up just like there is no reason to associate Brashear with performance enhancing drugs. Unless you think that partying the night before can help you the next night, the cocaine is irrelevant.

[mikebflorida]

Originally Posted by cookie monster

I don't even know where to start.

#1 Probert was arrested for and admitted to abusing cocaine. Brashear was never arrested for, never admitted to abusing steroid or even failed a drug test, so that anology is a massive cop out.

#2 If they were all on steroids as you claim, how do you know Probert wasn't too? I mean he was a drug abuser, yet you just assume he was clean, but others weren't?

#3 Ask Lawrence Taylor if cocaine helps you.

#4 Probert was half the guy in Chicago he was in Detroit.

#5 Donald Brashear is the best tough guy ever.

I have a lot more evidence that Brashear juiced since he got bigger, faster, and stronger once he left Montreal. Was it magic? LoL that was the height of the steroid era for athletes with no testing so why shouldn't I think he was on them? Oh wait, I wasn't there so I shouldn't accuse, my bad.

Who gives a fock about LT? Coke doesn't enhance any kind of performance except maybe talking faster and better teeth grinding. Trust me on this one. LT didn't run faster on coke, he was already fast, it probably just made him a spaz. Irrelevant.

I'll take half a Probert any day of the week.

If Donald Brashear was the toughest guy ever then it's obvious you're just pot stirring. The guy was a fruit cake in a savages body, a bully with a goofy demeanor and body language who happened to somehow put together a good career in the NHL as a tough guy. I can name 30 guys who were tougher but there just weren't that many that used the hug and noogie style to elevate and protect himself for 16 seasons. And he wasn't half the player Probie was nor did he have 1/10 the respect Probie had.

Lastly, talking so casually about somene else's substance abuse problem is pretty lame. Having dealt with it myself and staying clean for 22.5 years, I can say without a doubt that it's not easy, it changes your life and you can't ever quit, it stays with you forever, it's a disease and it's a killer. Have some respect please. Your comments are less than degrading.

Anyway, back to why Brashear is NOT number 1 and never will be. Brash The Bailer will never be number 1 no matter how man of his fans try to prop him up as a faux champion. It's ok to be a fan of his I guess, if you like bails and noogies, but it's completely unreasonable to say he's number 1, a complete farce if I ever saw one.

[Cat Smasher]

Since I'm in the book, thought I would share how Probie felt.

Page 181.

We played Vancouver again on March 10, and I fought Donald Brashear for the first time in a long time. I did all right. The linesmen didn't let us get anywhere. The first time we met up was in December 1993, when I was with the Wings and he was a rookie with Montreal. Brashear was careful about trying not to get hurt, and he was so strong that he could control you. He would pull you in with his arms instead of stringing you out and then throw quick little hook punches at you. It was a defensive style of fighting. Nobody ever really got hurt, because he was in so tight. You would think the commentators would figure out the difference between a real fight and one that's not, but they go, "Oh my God! They threw forty, forty-five punches there." Well, you can barely break open a popcorn bag with some of the punches guys throw because they're quick, little rabbit-style punches.

Brashear would never really lose big or win that big. He'd just hold on. If you know how to hold on, then you will do all right, but nobody wants to see that. They want to see a really good fight. That was Brashear's big knock before he made it to the NHL, because that's what he used to do all the time--just hold on. Every time I fought Brashear, I'd think, "I'm going to get f*cking big and strong this summer so I can come back next year and break free of that cocksucker and kick the snot out of him!"

[ewen21]

Originally Posted by Cat Smasher

Since I'm in the book, thought I would share how Probie felt.

Page 181.

Oh boy......you did now.

RetardedChimp is gonna be really upset!

[Dark Light]

Brashear is easily in my top 10, could very well be in my top 5. One thing I strongly believe is that a prime Brashear can beat anyone in any era. Just because his size/strength and technique. He was actually a very technical, smart fighter. That strong hugging/tugging pull his opponent jersey he does, which gets his opponent off balance or give them a slow start. Worked very effectively for years for Brashear. And any fighter would of had a hard time against him with that kind of style.

Would of loved to seen Brashear and Twist. They could of fought in their prime, too bad they didn't.

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

**I find the excerpt (mentioned earlier in thread) when Probert is charachterizing Brashear interesting in this repsect: Whatever his opinion of brashear's character/fighting style he did find in Brashear enough of a "threat" to want to concentrate in the off-season to getting stronger to deal with him, that is telling in the sense that obviously Brash was in his head. Probert by his own admission must have considered him worthy and formiddable enough to want to improve his approach when confronting him.

[mikebflorida]

I can't even imagine what goes through an enforcer's head on a daily basis. I would think every "tough guy" is in every tough guy's head.

I think that's what drives so many of them to drink or do drugs, to escape those thoughts, even if for a few hours, so they can relax.

Some guys handle it better than others.