Bad Call, that decision is not mine!

[JAVALITE]

Originally Posted by JJR

I'd be interested in everyone's take on this fight, the only time they fought twice in one game. After that first fight the crowd was all excited and the Hockey News blurb had clark with this glorious victory. As I saw hit, he got the usual jump, threw a bunch of punches, may be a few landed, Probie spent some time adjusting his helmet and getting mad then threw two big rights that knocked Clark down, and then the linesman came in before he could hit him again. I could be biased so I figured I'd see what the posters thought.

Also, I think if you asked Laraque and Huggy on the way to the box which one thought that fight was a mistake it would have been huggy.

You say Clark got the usual jump. Would you care to explain that.

As far as the fight is concerned, I'm leaning towards Probert in this one. I think he did catch Clark with a right. How damaging the punch was will never be known, unless we can get another angle of the fight. It may have been more of a glancing blow, it may have caught him flush.

One thing I can say with certainty is that Clark did not win the fight. He missed with every punch at the start of the fight. I think the best Wendel can get out of this one is a draw, and I'm doubting that.

[Boston Garden]

Originally Posted by RetardedChimp

That'll do pig, that'll do.

Hope you feel better now.

Originally Posted by brawl lover

Would you put Brashear over anyone who ever wore a Bruin Jersey? Cause I would.

Good for you! I'd have to look into it...but if hugs and noogies are your cup of tea, then the more power to you!

[spiderarms]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

Guys-

TKO- when one fighter is hurt and the refs jump in to stop it out of concern for the hurt fighter.

I agree with this BUT, NHL Referees DO NOT want fighting. This makes them BIAS and MORE than willing to jump in anytime!

In the Laraque/Brashear fight, Laraque got hit with a lucky punch from out of the blue and it knocked him down, he bounced right back up but the linesmen saw an opportunity to end the fight and that was obviously a mistake from fight fans point of view who wanted to see it continue. Laraque was not hurt in any way, only a biased voter would see it as a TKO, it clearly is not.

I agree that this fight between Laraque and Brashear was just a Knockdown, not a TKO. It was the referees that stopped this fight, Laraque was able and willing to continue and IMO, won this fight.

Another great example of a TKO is Steve Macintyre hitting Brashear in the ribs twice, buckling Brash with the 2nd one and the refs step in knowing Donald is hurt. Textbook TKO.

This fight is borderline at best. Was Brashear hurt by the rib punch, yes, could he continue, IMO yes, but I don't think he wanted too. That's why I won't jump on the TKO bandwagon for this one. I believe he was hurt and was not responding and this is why the refs stepped in as it was their opportunity to stop the fight, which they will always want to do.

One thing that everyone needs to remember, NHL referees DO NOT want fighting. That's the big difference between BOXING Refs, where it is their JOB. NHL Referees are told to STOP FIGHTS!

KO- When a fighter is hit with a punch that very obviously stuns him and he cannot continue to fight, and needs assistance getting to his feet and off the ice.

I disagree with you definition of this. A KO is not only being stunned, its being knocked unconcious. I guess we differ on this.

Belak hit Brashear with a thunderbolt that crumpled him to the ice and he required assistance getting to his feet, was wobbily and the linesman was holding him up as he goes off the ice. KO.

If you look at the video again, you can see that Brashear gets up IMMEDIATELY without assistance. He is assisted by the refs when he gets up because he stumbles and is obviously hurt. This is NOT a KO in my book.
You do not IMMEDIATELY get up if you are KO'D. As a matter of fact, not one of his teamates felt he needed assistance because NO ONE came to assist him. Brashear was clearly decked and hurt but NOT KO'd. This was a TKO IMO.

A player does NOT need to be unconcious for it to be a KO but those are much, much easier to score since the stricken player is usually laying there with his eyes shut and blood oozing out of his head. See Nick Kypreos. Poor bastard.

Again, I guess we disagree on this point and I respect your opinion.
I believe a player HAS to be knocked unconcious, that's why it called a KNOCKOUT. To me, that's why we have the other definitions of TKO and KNOCKDOWN, to clarify the difference. As I mentioned in an earlier post, Kyte and Fedoruk were two classic cases.

[spiderarms]

Originally Posted by Habs # 1

Tom Sullivan vs Ryan Vandenbussche ROYALS vs SPITFIRES - YouTube

Thanks for sharing that one it was a great fight!

The Winner?

Us FIGHT FANS!

[spiderarms]

Originally Posted by RetardedChimp

The definitions of KO/TKO/KD are different for each person so there is no 'right' or 'wrong' version of them...as long as people are consistent with it between fights it doesn't really matter. Some call every KD a KO and some don't.

For me it's the following...

KO - fighter is literally unconscious for more than a few seconds after getting hit with a punch (Orr-Fedoruk). Usually requires stretcher. These happen very rarely.

TKO - Fighter is hit by a punch and legs buckle to the point the fight is over, may be unconscious for a brief moment, usually completely lets go of the guy who hits him, is usually dazed for a short while afterwards but soon shakes it off (Fedoruk-Johnson, Engelland-Orr) - Or - the fighter is punched and clearly hurt and looking to end the fight either by take down, standing turtle or verbal (Peters-McGrattan, Cairns-Fedoruk) causing the refs come in to stop it.

KD - Fighter is hit by the punch and is knocked to the ice and the fight ends, but fighter could still continue fighting if allowed. (Brashear-Laraque, Carcillo-Thornton)


Disagree.

Fits my definition of a TKO. Brashear was dropped, but was not knocked out. Brashear tweaked his knee on the way down and that is why he wobbled when he first stood up. "Lower body" injury reports after that fight support that claim (you can look it up if you want).

You use a more liberal term of KO than I do.


I disagree. KO's are super rare and the person SHOULD be unconscious for a least a few seconds for it to be called a KO.

Very detailed and articulate. Well done!

[BROKEN*ORBITAL]

KO = PETROVICKY vs NEWBURY

TKO = BELAK vs BRASHEAR

KD = SIMON vs McNEILL

[spiderarms]

Originally Posted by BROKEN*ORBITAL

KO = PETROVICKY vs NEWBURY

TKO = BELAK vs BRASHEAR

KD = SIMON vs McNEILL

Text book stuff!

[lilburtis9363]

Chris Simon vs Colton Orr - YouTube

Ken Belanger vs John Erskine 03.06.02 - YouTube

[Sioyvenheaven1]

Originally Posted by lilburtis9363

Chris Simon vs Colton Orr - YouTubeKen Belanger vs John Erskine 03.06.02 - YouTube

TKO wins for Simon and Erskine.

[mikebflorida]

Originally Posted by Sioyvenheaven1

TKO wins for Simon and Erskine.

Im still waiting to see the punch that floors Orr. I just don't see it. I hear the announcer say it but I just can't see it and Orr is winning the fight.

In the case of Laraque/Brashear, Brash gets a lucky shot in and BGL goes down, pops right back up but the linesmen jump in because they had the opportunity to do so, certainly not because BGL was hurt so it's most definitely not a TKO for Brashear, that's absurd. I can see giving it a draw and have no beef giving BGL a win because he outlanded Brash about 10-1 and knocked him down twice.

[Sioyvenheaven1]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

Im still waiting to see the punch that floors Orr. I just don't see it. I hear the announcer say it but I just can't see it and Orr is winning the fight.

Simon lands a left at the end that absolutely floors Orr. Looks like Simon's fist and forearm landed squarely on Orr's head.

In the case of Laraque/Brashear, Brash gets a lucky shot in and BGL goes down, pops right back up but the linesmen jump in because they had the opportunity to do so, certainly not because BGL was hurt so it's most definitely not a TKO for Brashear, that's absurd. I can see giving it a draw and have no beef giving BGL a win because he outlanded Brash about 10-1 and knocked him down twice.

Lucky shot or not, Laraque was still dropped. Yes, he was beating on Brashear badly until the very end, but you can't say that he won it, no way. What I take away from that fight is that Brashear was able to hang in there, land a couple bombs at the end and drop Laraque, that, and the fact that Laraque couldn't put the fight away as he should have.

[lilburtis9363]

Originally Posted by Sioyvenheaven1

TKO wins for Simon and Erskine.

These are both pretty similiar situations. Belanger is feeding Erskine left after left then the linesman are coming in right as Erskine rocks him with a right-hand. The linesman may have made the ending unfair as you can see Belanger getting grabbed right as he gets cracked. Can't tell if the linesman helped pull him down or if the punch did it.

Orr was pounding on Simon and Simon threw a wild left that definitely caught helmet, but did it actually hit Orr in the face? Hard to tell it happened so fast it looked like more of a balance issue to me, Simon's left wizzing by and the momentum causing Simon to fall forward and Orr back. I've seen or tko'd, this one looks different to me, but I could be wrong.

[Joser Jose]

Probert-Domi 1- I'm a big Domi fan as he's my Dad's all time fave but I give Probie the slight edge on this one.