Andy Bathgate

[Travis24]

I just got a Mitchell and Ness away Penguins jersey circa 1967 with Andy Bathgate's number on it (#9). It is a great jersey, baby blue, tie down, Pittsburgh written across the front (ala NY Rangers), a heavy sweater type of jersey as opposed to what most are made of.
I was just wondering if any of you could fill me in on Bathgate. I know he is a HOFer, did his best work as a Ranger, won a cup with Detroit and played for the expansion Pens in two different stints at the end of his career. But I was hoping one of our more knowledgeable guys here could fill me in on Bathgate's playing style and any interesting stories.
Thanks.

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Travis24

I just got a Mitchell and Ness away Penguins jersey circa 1967 with Andy Bathgate's number on it (#9). It is a great jersey, baby blue, tie down, Pittsburgh written across the front (ala NY Rangers), a heavy sweater type of jersey as opposed to what most are made of.
I was just wondering if any of you could fill me in on Bathgate. I know he is a HOFer, did his best work as a Ranger, won a cup with Detroit and played for the expansion Pens in two different stints at the end of his career. But I was hoping one of our more knowledgeable guys here could fill me in on Bathgate's playing style and any interesting stories.
Thanks.

Travis, I only saw Bathgate play once in 1970-71 with Pittsburgh but my Pop knew him well as a Ranger and said he was awesome with a great shot and I think he could fight also. He was another guy who back then was a complete player who could score and fight when he had to. His best play was as a Ranger, he was traded in 64 to Toronto as part of that big trade where Muzz Patrick acquired Nevin, Seiling, and Arnie Brown who all played at least 7 years in NY. Patrick, who would be replaced by Francis as GM the next year, was looking to the future and Toronto at the present and he helped them win the cup that year. There were other people involved like Dick Duff, Bill Collins, and Don McKenney. Bathgate led the Rangers in scoring from 55-56 to 62-63 with a high of 40 goals and 88 points in 58-59 in a 70 game season. I wish I could add more but like I said I only saw him play once. I'll post this and then get his stats for you to see.
Jack
1951-52 Guelph Biltmores OHA 34 27 50 77 0
1952-53 Vancouver Canucks WHL 37 13 13 26 29 9 11 4 15 2
1952-53 New-York Rangers NHL 18 0 1 1 6 -- -- -- -- --
1953-54 Vancouver Canucks WHL 17 12 10 22 6 -- -- -- -- --
1953-54 Cleveland Barons AHL 36 13 19 32 44 9 3 5 8 8
1953-54 New-York Rangers NHL 20 2 2 4 18 -- -- -- -- --
1954-55 New-York Rangers NHL 70 20 20 40 37 -- -- -- -- --
1955-56 New-York Rangers NHL 70 19 47 66 59 5 1 2 3 2
1956-57 New-York Rangers NHL 70 27 50 77 60 5 2 0 2 7
1957-58 New-York Rangers NHL 65 30 48 78 42 6 5 3 8 6
1958-59 New-York Rangers NHL 70 40 48 88 48 -- -- -- -- --
1959-60 New-York Rangers NHL 70 26 48 74 28 -- -- -- -- --
1960-61 New-York Rangers NHL 70 29 48 77 22 -- -- -- -- --
1961-62 New-York Rangers NHL 70 28 56 84 44 6 1 2 3 4
1962-63 New-York Rangers NHL 70 35 46 81 54 -- -- -- -- --
1963-64 New-York Rangers NHL 56 16 43 59 26 -- -- -- -- --
1963-64 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 15 3 15 18 8 14 5 4 9 25
1964-65 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 55 16 29 45 34 6 1 0 1 6
1965-66 Detroit Red Wings NHL 70 15 32 47 25 12 6 3 9 6
1966-67 Pittsburgh Hornets AHL 6 4 6 10 7 -- -- -- -- --
1966-67 Detroit Red Wings NHL 60 8 23 31 24 -- -- -- -- --
1967-68 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 74 20 39 59 55 -- -- -- -- --
1968-69 Vancouver Canucks WHL 71 37 36 73 44 8 3 5 8 5
1969-70 Vancouver Canucks WHL 72 40 68 108 66 11 3 9 12 22
1970-71 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 76 15 29 44 34 -- -- -- -- --
1974-75 Vancouver Blazers WHA 11 1 6 7 2 -- -- -- -- --
WHA Totals 11 1 6 7 2
NHL Totals 1069 349 624 973 624 54 21 14 35 56
Travis, it's early in the morning and I'm trying to remember but my Dad might have mentioned that his knees weren't the best either. His play dropped off after 65 and the older guys who actually saw him in his prime know a hell of a lot more than me but I hope that at least gets the ball rolling.
I'll call my Dad today and ask him about Bathgate again. I know he liked him and said he was a hell of a player on some bad Ranger teams.
Jack

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by bigjack

Travis, I only saw Bathgate play once in 1970-71 with Pittsburgh but my Pop knew him well as a Ranger and said he was awesome with a great shot and I think he could fight also. He was another guy who back then was a complete player who could score and fight when he had to. His best play was as a Ranger, he was traded in 64 to Toronto as part of that big trade where Muzz Patrick acquired Nevin, Seiling, and Arnie Brown who all played at least 7 years in NY. Patrick, who would be replaced by Francis as GM the next year, was looking to the future and Toronto at the present and he helped them win the cup that year. There were other people involved like Dick Duff, Bill Collins, and Don McKenney. Bathgate led the Rangers in scoring from 55-56 to 62-63 with a high of 40 goals and 88 points in 58-59 in a 70 game season. I wish I could add more but like I said I only saw him play once. I'll post this and then get his stats for you to see.
Jack
1951-52 Guelph Biltmores OHA 34 27 50 77 0
1952-53 Vancouver Canucks WHL 37 13 13 26 29 9 11 4 15 2
1952-53 New-York Rangers NHL 18 0 1 1 6 -- -- -- -- --
1953-54 Vancouver Canucks WHL 17 12 10 22 6 -- -- -- -- --
1953-54 Cleveland Barons AHL 36 13 19 32 44 9 3 5 8 8
1953-54 New-York Rangers NHL 20 2 2 4 18 -- -- -- -- --
1954-55 New-York Rangers NHL 70 20 20 40 37 -- -- -- -- --
1955-56 New-York Rangers NHL 70 19 47 66 59 5 1 2 3 2
1956-57 New-York Rangers NHL 70 27 50 77 60 5 2 0 2 7
1957-58 New-York Rangers NHL 65 30 48 78 42 6 5 3 8 6
1958-59 New-York Rangers NHL 70 40 48 88 48 -- -- -- -- --
1959-60 New-York Rangers NHL 70 26 48 74 28 -- -- -- -- --
1960-61 New-York Rangers NHL 70 29 48 77 22 -- -- -- -- --
1961-62 New-York Rangers NHL 70 28 56 84 44 6 1 2 3 4
1962-63 New-York Rangers NHL 70 35 46 81 54 -- -- -- -- --
1963-64 New-York Rangers NHL 56 16 43 59 26 -- -- -- -- --
1963-64 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 15 3 15 18 8 14 5 4 9 25
1964-65 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 55 16 29 45 34 6 1 0 1 6
1965-66 Detroit Red Wings NHL 70 15 32 47 25 12 6 3 9 6
1966-67 Pittsburgh Hornets AHL 6 4 6 10 7 -- -- -- -- --
1966-67 Detroit Red Wings NHL 60 8 23 31 24 -- -- -- -- --
1967-68 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 74 20 39 59 55 -- -- -- -- --
1968-69 Vancouver Canucks WHL 71 37 36 73 44 8 3 5 8 5
1969-70 Vancouver Canucks WHL 72 40 68 108 66 11 3 9 12 22
1970-71 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 76 15 29 44 34 -- -- -- -- --
1974-75 Vancouver Blazers WHA 11 1 6 7 2 -- -- -- -- --
WHA Totals 11 1 6 7 2
NHL Totals 1069 349 624 973 624 54 21 14 35 56
Travis, it's early in the morning and I'm trying to remember but my Dad might have mentioned that his knees weren't the best either. His play dropped off after 65 and the older guys who actually saw him in his prime know a hell of a lot more than me but I hope that at least gets the ball rolling.
I'll call my Dad today and ask him about Bathgate again. I know he liked him and said he was a hell of a player on some bad Ranger teams.
Jack

Travis, I was looking at Bathgate's stats and noticed he went back to play in the WHL for 2 years. I think another ex Ranger Andy Hebenton did the same thing playing in the WHL after his NHL career was over. I remember reading where Hebenton played like 8 straight years as a Ranger without missing a game and one year with Boston. I know that I always write about the 6 team era with only 100 players but notice that these guys played in the minors to hone their games and be fundamentally sound and played in the minors later after their NHL days were over I guess because they loved the game and didn't make a lot of money and couldn't retire! Today's guy can play one year and retire for chrissakes and maybe if a few of the goons like a Scott Parker, just as an example, because he's current and was a first round pick played 3 years in the AHL and played a regular shift and 80 games might be a little more ready for NHL calibre play. Guys like Bathgate or like I mentioned Brad Park the other day did it so why can't these fighters and be made to concentrate on hockey at the minor league level. Their quality of play might be slightly better. If I'm paying a guy, I would want him to be more than just a fighter and would make it clear that he was to improve his skills or he'd never see the NHL. A lot of the bull**** would end and we'd see better players. Look at Nedved and Kovalov, they should of played a year or two in the minors to learn the game and we might see better hockey!

[bigjack]

Travis,
Bathgate won a cup with Toronto in 63-64 which ended their 3 year rein, not with Detroit which I think won their last cup during the Gordie Howe era in 54-55.
Jack

[VideoGuy]

Andy Bathgate was a classy player. In his prime he was right up there with the superstars of the NHL. Bathgate was the type of guy to tell it like it was and therefore got himself in a little hot water. While with the Rangers, Bathgate said in a newspaper article that there were a number of players in the NHL that use stickwork and especially spearing and I think he named some players. The NHL didn't appreciate that. After he was traded to the Leafs, he criticized the Leaf coach Punch Imlach and he was then traded to Detroit. Bathgate thought he was talking off the record but the damage was done.
Bathgate, in his prime, had one of the best shots in the NHL. He claims rather strongly that he invented the curved stick and not Mikita and Hull. After a great career with the Rangers, his skating slipped a bit and he was traded to the Leafs who were looking for a boost the win their 3rd cup. He didn't play that well because of an injury but still scored 2 winning goals. His time with the Leafs wasn't what he expected. The Leafs in the early 60's were a close knit group with players having played with each other for years all the way back to junior hockey. When Duff and Nevin were traded to the Rangers in the deal for Bathgate, the Leaf players were very upset. Before the game that night, the dressing room was especially quiet until Bathgate arrived and showed his enthusiam to his new teammates that they can win the cup again etc. The Leaf players in the dressing room all remember that Tim Horton, who didn't say much, told Bathgate to sit down and shut up. Bathgate may have been a star in N.Y. but in Toronto he was just another player.
That's the way the NHL was back then.
After Bathgate criticized the Leaf coach he was on the way to Detroit and then Pittsburgh etc. He was never the superstar player again.
Bathgate was one of those players that when riled, was an outstanding fighter on the ice. That was in his younger days and he fought his own battles as many of the players did then.
Bathgate today runs his own driving range and played old-timer hockey until a few years ago despite having lost an eye.

Originally Posted by bigjack

Travis,
Bathgate won a cup with Toronto in 63-64 which ended their 3 year rein, not with Detroit which I think won their last cup during the Gordie Howe era in 54-55.
Jack

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by VideoGuy

Andy Bathgate was a classy player. In his prime he was right up there with the superstars of the NHL. Bathgate was the type of guy to tell it like it was and therefore got himself in a little hot water. While with the Rangers, Bathgate said in a newspaper article that there were a number of players in the NHL that use stickwork and especially spearing and I think he named some players. The NHL didn't appreciate that. After he was traded to the Leafs, he criticized the Leaf coach Punch Imlach and he was then traded to Detroit. Bathgate thought he was talking off the record but the damage was done.
Bathgate, in his prime, had one of the best shots in the NHL. He claims rather strongly that he invented the curved stick and not Mikita and Hull. After a great career with the Rangers, his skating slipped a bit and he was traded to the Leafs who were looking for a boost the win their 3rd cup. He didn't play that well because of an injury but still scored 2 winning goals. His time with the Leafs wasn't what he expected. The Leafs in the early 60's were a close knit group with players having played with each other for years all the way back to junior hockey. When Duff and Nevin were traded to the Rangers in the deal for Bathgate, the Leaf players were very upset. Before the game that night, the dressing room was especially quiet until Bathgate arrived and showed his enthusiam to his new teammates that they can win the cup again etc. The Leaf players in the dressing room all remember that Tim Horton, who didn't say much, told Bathgate to sit down and shut up. Bathgate may have been a star in N.Y. but in Toronto he was just another player.
That's the way the NHL was back then.
After Bathgate criticized the Leaf coach he was on the way to Detroit and then Pittsburgh etc. He was never the superstar player again.
Bathgate was one of those players that when riled, was an outstanding fighter on the ice. That was in his younger days and he fought his own battles as many of the players did then.
Bathgate today runs his own driving range and played old-timer hockey until a few years ago despite having lost an eye.

Travis, I'm getting ready to get breakfast but called my Pop and he told me something else about Bathgate that hasn't been mentioned. He thinks it was Andy Bathgate's shot that busted up Jacques Plante's face in 1959 and caused Plante to wear a goalie mask and tell Toe Blake to go to hell. He said that Bathgate and Boomer Geoffrion invented the slapshot and came before Bobby Hull and he had the banana blade and did have very bad knees. He claims that he was a hell of a fighter, not just a guy who could fight but had a long fuse.
Reading VG's comments, it sounds like we got you a good start. I didn't know he was opinionated but could see where he would be in hot water especially Punch Imlach who was a tough bastid and ruthless!
Time for breakfast!
Jack

[Travis24]

Thanks Guys! Great info as always. I did read it was Toronto where Bathgate won the Cup, and then somehow I forgot and made it the Wings--my bad, thanks for setting me straight.
I appreciate the interesting info about his experience in Toronto, curved sticks and Plante's face. I am glad he is doing well today, and I am glad he could fight even if he didn't go a lot--then again, almost everyone could be counted on back then. The way it should be!
Thanks as always. I knew I could count on you guys!
Travis

[VideoGuy]

Yes, Andy had very bad knees all the way back to junior hockey.
The interesting thing about his shot that hit Plante in the face was that Bathgate deliberately did that. Back in those days without goalie masks, players tried to not to take aim at a goalie's face if they could avoid it.
Plante had given Bathgate problems for years by tripping him around the net. In this particular game, Bathgate was going in on Plante and Plante tripped him and Bathgate went right into the boards. The next time Bathgate had a chance he said he purposely flicked the shot right at Plante's face. The rest is history.

Originally Posted by bigjack

Travis, I'm getting ready to get breakfast but called my Pop and he told me something else about Bathgate that hasn't been mentioned. He thinks it was Andy Bathgate's shot that busted up Jacques Plante's face in 1959 and caused Plante to wear a goalie mask and tell Toe Blake to go to hell. He said that Bathgate and Boomer Geoffrion invented the slapshot and came before Bobby Hull and he had the banana blade and did have very bad knees. He claims that he was a hell of a fighter, not just a guy who could fight but had a long fuse.
Reading VG's comments, it sounds like we got you a good start. I didn't know he was opinionated but could see where he would be in hot water especially Punch Imlach who was a tough bastid and ruthless!
Time for breakfast!
Jack

[Travis24]

I can't decide whether Bathgate shooting at Plante's face on purpose is cool or not. My first reaction was to laugh, but then I thought, man that is a dick move.
Maskless goaltenders is the one element of "old time hockey" that I find unbelievable. I know even the well protected goalies of today are pretty crazy, but my god, you would need to be certifiably insane to play the position without any facial protection.

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Travis24

I can't decide whether Bathgate shooting at Plante's face on purpose is cool or not. My first reaction was to laugh, but then I thought, man that is a dick move.
Maskless goaltenders is the one element of "old time hockey" that I find unbelievable. I know even the well protected goalies of today are pretty crazy, but my god, you would need to be certifiably insane to play the position without any facial protection.

Travis, I just read that and wow that's something. I called my Pop just now to tell him and he laughed and said I told you that the guys were vicious in the 6 team era and policed themselves. He obviously has no use for today's fighters and believes that hockey players should be complete players. He is old school for sure but I remember the first time I saw Teddy Lindsey on Channel 4 years ago with Brian McFarland, Tim Ryan, and Peter Puck, he told me all about what a rat bastid he was with his stick and would make Bobby Clarke look like a choirboy. He always makes the point that the jobs were hard to come by with only 6 teams and the guys were tightknit and would do almost anything to keep their job. It kind of explains Video Guy's great story about the Leafs and Tim Horton's reaction to Bathgate when he joined Toronto. It was a different era for sure and if you were weak in the knees I don't think you would last very long. Imagine a Petr Nedved in the 6 team era. Bobby Orr said a few weeks back that his first year of 66-67 he was tested constantly and had to fight back or be run over. It wasn't like Gretzky having McSorley or Semenko fighting his battles for him. The coaches were rat bastids also, Iron Mike Keenan would probably fit in perfectly in 1965.
Congrats on the uniform, that's cool!
Jack

[Deadman]

Andy Bathgate is one of the most underrated scorers in hockey history. Compare his stats from 1955 thru 1964 with Hull, Howe, Beliveau and the rest. He may be the best of all during those years. But I never hear him mentioned with the same reverence as the others.

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by Deadman

Andy Bathgate is one of the most underrated scorers in hockey history. Compare his stats from 1955 thru 1964 with Hull, Howe, Beliveau and the rest. He may be the best of all during those years. But I never hear him mentioned with the same reverence as the others.

Deadman, great point especially that he played in NY and again Travis great job creating this post.

[VideoGuy]

Its true that Bathgate didn't get the recognition that he deserved. The All-Star voters always had Richard, Howe and Geoffrion to think about in the 1950's for the right wing spot. Bathgate did win the Hart Trophy for the 1958-59 season but he is remembered as being part of a team that completely collapsed over the last few weeks of the season and missed the playoffs on the last night of the season. Bigjack, ask your Dad about that. It was one of the worst collapses in hockey history and was partly blamed on the Fontinato-Howe fight. But,the Rangers had a tyrannical coach in Phil Watson (the forerunner to Mike Keenan).

Originally Posted by Deadman

Andy Bathgate is one of the most underrated scorers in hockey history. Compare his stats from 1955 thru 1964 with Hull, Howe, Beliveau and the rest. He may be the best of all during those years. But I never hear him mentioned with the same reverence as the others.

[bigjack]

Originally Posted by VideoGuy

Its true that Bathgate didn't get the recognition that he deserved. The All-Star voters always had Richard, Howe and Geoffrion to think about in the 1950's for the right wing spot. Bathgate did win the Hart Trophy for the 1958-59 season but he is remembered as being part of a team that completely collapsed over the last few weeks of the season and missed the playoffs on the last night of the season. Bigjack, ask your Dad about that. It was one of the worst collapses in hockey history and was partly blamed on the Fontinato-Howe fight. But,the Rangers had a tyrannical coach in Phil Watson (the forerunner to Mike Keenan).

Video Guy, I will.
I know that he felt that the Rangers in the mid 50's should of been the 3rd best team behind Montreal who he said was awesome and Detroit. He felt they were better than Chicago and Toronto and a little better than Boston but I know he didn't like Phil Watson.
I may be wrong but I thought he told me one time that Montreal was so dominate on their powerplay that they changed the rule that a powerplay would end if you scored and not get the full two minutes to try to score and he loved Richard and Doug Harvey. He thought from 55 on that Montreal was in a class by themselves
I have a question, he said that when he was a kid in the 40's, his Mom and Dad would take him to the old Garden for a Sunday matinee to watch the Rovers and come back to watch the Rangers. Is that how it was? He said the Rovers played some pretty good hockey!

[VideoGuy]

I don't have the exact date in my head but it was around March 1956, that Jean Beliveau scored 3 goals on one Boston minor penalty.
The league changed the rule right after that season to allow the penalized player to return after one goal.

Maybe they should bring the old rule back.

Originally Posted by bigjack

Video Guy, I will.
I know that he felt that the Rangers in the mid 50's should of been the 3rd best team behind Montreal who he said was awesome and Detroit. He felt they were better than Chicago and Toronto and a little better than Boston but I know he didn't like Phil Watson.
I may be wrong but I thought he told me one time that Montreal was so dominate on their powerplay that they changed the rule that a powerplay would end if you scored and not get the full two minutes to try to score and he loved Richard and Doug Harvey. He thought from 55 on that Montreal was in a class by themselves
I have a question, he said that when he was a kid in the 40's, his Mom and Dad would take him to the old Garden for a Sunday matinee to watch the Rovers and come back to watch the Rangers. Is that how it was? He said the Rovers played some pretty good hockey!