1974 Photo of Nick "the king" Fotiu Cape Cod Cubs

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Originally Posted by GOON 21

I have this whole film on tape (1 of first tapes i ever bought as a kid) and from what i saw there was Flyers who didnt seem interested in going with Fotiu, if i remember Glen Cohcrane was up in the lineup and a couple of others and had many chances to go with Nick and didnt seem interested


Cunningham was actually a tough minor leaguer at that time and i applaud him for taking on Nick 3 times in 1 game


Now Would i have LOVED to see Nick mix it up with another Flyer? HELL YEA but its a 2 way street and i think its somewhat unfair to simply 'blame Nick' and not have some of the Flyer players look in the mirror as well, they had PLENTY of chances to get at Nick after he 'beat up' that nobody a couple times and yet they didnt (until someone finally jumped in, 3rd man very late) i blame the Flyers a lil as well


Just keeping it a 2 way street

GOON it's a New York City thing - it goes beyond Fotiu - it's not that they don't see, they "won't" see.

[Schultz]

Cunningham was considered one of the best fighters in the AHL, so he was far from a "nobody". I just watched the Pittsburgh 1981-83 tape and there was an incident where Pat Boutette checks Fotiu hard into the boards. Fotiu grabs Boutette with his left arm and flings him to the ice. Boutette gets up and when Nick skates over to him he raises his stick instead, not wanting any part of Fotiu. Now Baxter in near by and Nick skates over to him. Baxter skates away wanting nothing to do with Nick. There's 2 possible fights for Nick but his partners wanted no part of his. His fault? Incidents like these are reasons why he didn't have a huge fight card.

[I like Boobs]

Originally Posted by BaddaBing Badda Boom

GOON it's a New York City thing - it goes beyond Fotiu - it's not that they don't see, they "won't" see.

Yes because there is a such a bias against New York based fighters here. You do realize the guy that owns the site is an Islanders fan right? I probably shouldn't give you that much credit though.

Schultz - The Cunningham fights would be fine if Fotiu would have actually fought him instead of cross checking him in the face than dropping the gloves, than headbutting him twice in the second fight. As far as Boutette goes - He was a terrible fighter. When little Gerry Hart is dropping you, you aren't much...

If I went through any fighter's career Schultz, I could find a dozen of those similar types of incidents (non fights for whatever reason) for anyone as you well know.

[pesadillamal]

I think that Fotiu had some rookies on his card because the rookies wanted to make a name for themselves. Fotiu had the rep, warranted or not, and the young guys probably saw him as one of the "gatekeepers".

My only problem with his aggression against Cunningham is that he didn't do stuff like that more often.

[pesadillamal]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

Here is Nick's legacy as far as I'm concerned-



Rangers-Flyers preseason brawl 1978 - YouTube



He basically hides behind the linesman and/or referee until he's left alone in the penalty box and finally comes out to fight some nobody when he has his choice of Holmgren, Dupont, Kelly, or about 6 other tougher guys. Bridgeman is beating the tar out of Frank Seldom Beaton and Nick, who supposedly is the "deterrent" just stands there.

Yet another in a long line of videos I've seen where Nick doesn't do anything and finally fights some chump.

I'm with I Like Boobs on this subject, I want to like Nick Fotiu, his is a great story of making the NHL when he had no business doing so but he's so wildly propped up by his fans despite not really having anything to really cheer about. This ruins it for me. The hype almost always ruins it for me. Like my dad just left a Sports Illustrated on my chair with Notre Dame's stupid gold helmet on it and I just chucked it in the trash can, he did it just to piss me off because he knows I hate Notre Dame but I secretly don't hate them, I hate their focking fans and the focking media for propping them up year after year despite not doing anything for 20 years and I have to sit and swallow what the media and their fans tell me about how great they are.

Nick is the same way. I don't hate the guy but know full well that he is easily the most overrated tough guy to ever come down the pike because of his fans/worshippers when in reality, he didn't fight very much, wasn't a very good player, and lost fights he shouldn't.

Onward

This post is filled with nothing but garbage and lies. You hypocrites talk about Fotiu fans going overboard and then you line up drooling to thank trash like this. There is not one fact in here.

[Howatt8]

Originally Posted by GOON 21

I have this whole film on tape (1 of first tapes i ever bought as a kid) and from what i saw there was Flyers who didnt seem interested in going with Fotiu, if i remember Glen Cohcrane was up in the lineup and a couple of others and had many chances to go with Nick and didnt seem interested


Cunningham was actually a tough minor leaguer at that time and i applaud him for taking on Nick 3 times in 1 game


Now Would i have LOVED to see Nick mix it up with another Flyer? HELL YEA but its a 2 way street and i think its somewhat unfair to simply 'blame Nick' and not have some of the Flyer players look in the mirror as well, they had PLENTY of chances to get at Nick after he 'beat up' that nobody a couple times and yet they didnt (until someone finally jumped in, 3rd man very late) i blame the Flyers a lil as well


Just keeping it a 2 way street

Well said. And I have to stick up a bit for Jim Cunningham here. Cunningham was a tough minor leaguer and at the time, probably considered a better fighter than Cochrane. It was right around this time period that Cochrane suffered a KO at the hands of Dean Turner.

Back in 1976, at least I think that was the year, Cunningham was playing for the St. Paul Vulcans and they had an exhibition game against the Minnesota Fighting Saints of the WHA. Curt Brackenbury decided to take on Cunningham and before Brackenbury could even get off a punch, Cunningham dropped him with a left, rearranging his nose which required surgery to repair.

Cunningham was a terror in the USHL and his reign included a trial for an on-ice beating he administered to a Fargo player. The Fargo player was a guy named Tim Lawson and the beating Cunningham laid on him landed him in the hospital for several days.

Also, there was another pre-season game that Cunningham played for the Flyers against Toronto and he was called up for one reason only, to take on Kurt Walker. Unfortunately, Walker never saw the ice that day, but if he had, Cunningham was there specifically to match up with Walker. Notice they didn't call up Cochrane for this heavyweight assignment. There was a reason for that and the reason was because Cunningham was the better fighter at that time.

Cunningham also dressed for one regular season game that year against the Bruins. Squared off with O'Reilly but tripped on his stick so nothing came of it.

[battleship25]

Originally Posted by Howatt8

Well said. And I have to stick up a bit for Jim Cunningham here. Cunningham was a tough minor leaguer and at the time, probably considered a better fighter than Cochrane. It was right around this time period that Cochrane suffered a KO at the hands of Dean Turner.

Back in 1976, at least I think that was the year, Cunningham was playing for the St. Paul Vulcans and they had an exhibition game against the Minnesota Fighting Saints of the WHA. Curt Brackenbury decided to take on Cunningham and before Brackenbury could even get off a punch, Cunningham dropped him with a left, rearranging his nose which required surgery to repair.

Cunningham was a terror in the USHL and his reign included a trial for an on-ice beating he administered to a Fargo player. The Fargo player was a guy named Tim Lawson and the beating Cunningham laid on him landed him in the hospital for several days.

Also, there was another pre-season game that Cunningham played for the Flyers against Toronto and he was called up for one reason only, to take on Kurt Walker. Unfortunately, Walker never saw the ice that day, but if he had, Cunningham was there specifically to match up with Walker. Notice they didn't call up Cochrane for this heavyweight assignment. There was a reason for that and the reason was because Cunningham was the better fighter at that time.

Cunningham also dressed for one regular season game that year against the Bruins. Squared off with O'Reilly but tripped on his stick so nothing came of it.

Howatt, not gonna try and split hairs with ya, but I saw plenty of Boutette when he came up with the Leafs( they had a tough team Hutchison, Tiger, Butler, Dunn, etc)...was a s*** disturber and would fight on occasion but wasn't very good. By the time he was traded to PIT he was a ghost most of the time and didn't have all the back up he had in TOR..not uncommon when you get a little long in the tooth. Just yesterday I was watching a Hawks tape and Boutette was noticeably cowering with Secord ..he really changed quite a bit from the little pesky rat that he was on TOR when he got under Gillies skin...a far more dangerous puncher than Fotiu, but this happens when you lose back up and your tiny (5-8/9) and not a good fighter.

As for Cunningham , I guess I'll have to take your word for him- he didn't look like he knew how to fight to me. But perhaps that was Fotiu's strength... to impose his style and make you look bad... but judging him from those three fights ..I'd say he's a bum (but that may not be fair).
Also, Dean Turner (who's mother Marilyn was a TV personality in DET) was a very strong wrestler type ..I'd have to see him KOing Cochrane to believe that one. I have a few Turner fights and threw him into the wrestler category. But it may've been a lucky punch.

And Brackenbury WAS worthless... another in the line of useless WHA "tough guys" - with Beaton, Connor, Clackson, and Markham.

However my butt is sore from sitting on this fence on Fotiu:

He was genuinely feared whether his detractors want to admit it or not...
1. How many times did you see Dan Maloney go immediately for the pant grab??? I saw Maloney plenty ..HE NEVER DID THAT !! Except with Fotiu.

2. He blasted the NYI goalie and no one did anything ..only Semenko, Jonathan and FOTIU got away with that.

3. He did get in B.Wilson's face and in the Hockey News called him a bum and told the writer that Wilson refused his challenge ..EVERYONE in the NHL reads the HN.

4. I would love to see the incident with Probert in the AHL..but I have the NHL incident and while I don't make much of it (he drew the penalty) if it happened in the AHL ..that's weird. The other part of that is almost anyone that Probert refused a fight ..he almost always ended up fighting them.The only example I could think of is Jack Carlson (in MIN) but later in the gm they almost got together but the linesmen ruined it...Probie was furious.

5. The Baron - Fotiu incident I don't want to comment on , but it would be disturbing if true. But TO fought everyone hard to believe , but there is video supposedly so I won't comment till I see it. However I do have Semenko pounding a BOS goalie and TO response was rather tepid . Semenko of course was also feared like few others in NHL history.

6. NF was a big mouth and bragged about how he would go in to the Spectrum and calm things down...every Flyer read these quotes in the HN ..but still he had few takers.

7. Marty Mac said that he had to be careful with Fotiu ..how many other guys did he do that with ?? Think of another guy Marty shadow boxed with ..? I can't think of any.


But on the other side of the fence:

1. His card was terrible( he was feared but he guys like Legge, Vautour, Giroux, and other bums fought him ).

2. Huge rep based on what ??? Never had a KO, never hurt anyone ...I think the PAL HW boxing champ headlines got into the heads of players ..they figured if they didn't get killed ..they were lucky.

3. Actual video is rare and what can be seen is his great strength, hand speed ..but also lack of really good t2t fights. He seemed to like to end fights as quickly as possible.

4. Calling Wilson a bum is hilarious - one (Wilson was an All star ) while Fotiu warmed the bench for the other players.

5. In a 10 fight series could he beat Jack Mac even ONCE ?? I'm not so sure ..seemed to have his number . The same Jack Mac that was brutally KO'd in ONE punch by John Hilworth !!! Yes, that John Hilworth !!!!

Fotiu is an enigma , wrapped in a riddle.... goon21 is correct it takes TWO to dance... for those of you that weren't old enough to see Fotiu play a lot of this won't make sense ..but the guy played like he owned every building he played in (esp. MSG) running around blasting everything in sight- daring anyone to do anything about it , hitting goalies, KOing mellow team captains (McCarthy ) with elbows ..no response !! Again this is not coming from a Fotiu fan, I hated the guy back then ...to me he was a bully ...most seemed to fear him and that's what made me even more angry..the room he got was ridiculous !!! That's why he's such a lightning rod here there's a lot to like and hate about the guy..perhaps more so than anyone else . Gotta stay on the fence ...I've mellowed over the yrs and don't hate him like I used to but there are some things you just can't explain away ..GOOD AND BAD .

[Howatt8]

Originally Posted by battleship25

Howatt, not gonna try and split hairs with ya, but I saw plenty of Boutette when he came up with the Leafs( they had a tough team Hutchison, Tiger, Butler, Dunn, etc)...was a s*** disturber and would fight on occasion but wasn't very good. By the time he was traded to PIT he was a ghost most of the time and didn't have all the back up he had in TOR..not uncommon when you get a little long in the tooth. Just yesterday I was watching a Hawks tape and Boutette was noticeably cowering with Secord ..he really changed quite a bit from the little pesky rat that he was on TOR when he got under Gillies skin...a far more dangerous puncher than Fotiu, but this happens when you lose back up and your tiny (5-8/9) and not a good fighter.

You're not splitting hairs with me at all Ship. I don't think I one time mentioned the name Boutette in any post I've ever made, let alone in this thread, lol.

Originally Posted by battleship25

As for Cunningham , I guess I'll have to take your word for him- he didn't look like he knew how to fight to me. But perhaps that was Fotiu's strength... to impose his style and make you look bad... but judging him from those three fights ..I'd say he's a bum (but that may not be fair).

Calling the guy a bum is not fair at all, IMO. And you don't have to take my word for it. Look it up. I gave you the guys names.

Originally Posted by battleship25

Also, Dean Turner (who's mother Marilyn was a TV personality in DET) was a very strong wrestler type ..I'd have to see him KOing Cochrane to believe that one. I have a few Turner fights and threw him into the wrestler category. But it may've been a lucky punch.

Turner was a wrestler, but I can guarantee you that he KO'd Cochrane. Probably was a lucky punch as he never showed much as a Ranger and was sent packing after a pre-season against the Flyers where Hospodar did all the heavy work and Turner sat there with his thumb up his a$$.

[flyersvikes]

Originally Posted by Howatt8

Cunningham also dressed for one regular season game that year against the Bruins. Squared off with O'Reilly but tripped on his stick so nothing came of it.

I actually remember this game and Cunningham being called up for it. I will have to dig a little but if memory serves me it was a Saturday matinee tilt. Ever since I joined here in 05 Fotiu has been a hot topic with some of the same stuff coming up over and over which is fine. I will just say that my take on Fotiu at the time was that he was more of a pain in the ass than anything and I did wish that someone would just clean his clock and sometimes wonder why no one did, legally or illegally. Also Pat Boutette was nothing but a dirty stick man from what I recall.

[GOON 21]

Wow this thread has taken a big turn with some of the late arriving posters bring in some great stories and memories of Fotiu, some of the real 'vets' on this board


I will say there was some 'hype' to Fotiu for sure i wont argue that point and its somewhat valid imo, but then i think some of the anti Fotiu guys go overboard as well, and the fact that some were not aware of Cunninghams minor league rep is telling


I never knew of that Oreilly-Cunningham story (tripping over stick) if thats really accurate thats a cross between sad and funny, poor guy never had his chance lol

[BaddaBing Badda Boom]

Great stuff! balanced - and all that from a picture.

BTW: I believe that Fotiu would more often than not lump Holmgren and Wilson together when he would be asked about going into Philly or the Flyers in general, always in a very calm and matter of fact manner, he would call both of them bums.

[Johnny Pie]

wow, I thought the Nick Fotiu thread took care of all the hype and terror Fotiu talk. I guess I will add my two cents again. Most Of my points were stated in that thread so I won't go on and on. First the talk of what Fotiu would have been if on the bruins or any where else [you know 20 goals and 20-25 fights] just doesn't make sense. When you speculate on what might have been it has to be based on some kind of reason.Example The bruins would have won more cups if Orr doesn't get hurt, or if Hoyda pummeled a little Bruin like Doak Oreilly would have taken care of him. Those statements are based on past examples of Orr and Oreilly actually doing things that make it reasonable that they could do it again. Fotiu NEVER in ANY league was close to a 25 fight 20 goal scorer who took on the toughest in the league. EVER. He played 14+ years and never actually came close to doing any of that. never really took revenge on anyone. Another thing doesn't it bother you that nothing new in actually fights [ not taking on whole chess team with knives] ever comes up. No pictures ,audio ,video nothing. It is amazing just this week I found video of the Cashman -Picard bout which clearly shows Cash taking Noel. And A fight I never knew about Cashman vs Curt Bennett in 71 is on a Bruin album with Bob Wilson describing a pretty good bout where Cash knocks Bennett down. Now you can believe the call or not but there is no doubt that there is another fight when Cashman was in his prime that shows his ability. But nothing like that ever seems to come to light with Fotiu. I collected thousands of pics and this guy just was not involved in many that show this killer ability. Sorry it always goes back to story telling. no actually fights or actions. Even his opponents have to be talked up. Come on Jim Cunningham. He was a tough guy but please making him like he was the terror of the AHL is a little much. Again lets try to talk reality. Fotiu was a very good tough fighter who gave his team courage. He was never Oreilly or Probert and never would have been no matter where he played.

[Schultz]

Fotiu's fought Nilan, Hunter, Wilson, Nystrom, Holmgren 2X, McIlhargey 2X and he never took on the NHL's toughest??????????

[Johnny Pie]

Originally Posted by Schultz

Fotiu's fought Nilan, Hunter, Wilson, Nystrom, Holmgren 2X, McIlhargey 2X and he never took on the NHL's toughest??????????

Come on Schultzie thats impressive. In 14+ years that shows him taking on the NHL' toughest????. O'reilly fought Nilan, Clackson 2x, Gillies 4x, Howatt and throw in Hanson and Russ Anderson in 2 WEEKS April 1980.

[pesadillamal]

I don't think you could put it any more accurately than BS25 did. Players were a little tentative with Nicky. That was not warranted but there was not immediate video of fights like there is today. He was not the best fighter of his era nor the toughest when it comes to battling tooth and nail. He was not a myth.

He went 7-1 against the Flyers and if his opponents were so over matched why was he never taken to task? We could debate Wilson turning away and then acting interested when the linesman is in between all day but there are no stories of Fotiu backing down from any Flyer despite some horrible post about the brawl against the Flyers in this thread. I do tend to believe the poster that tells us of Fotiu not being interested in Playfair and Semenko though so he had his issues.

Can't we just let BBBB have his fun since he has fought for our freedom and not take it out on Nicky?